Written by [user id=4365] on 10.02.2014 at 22:47
No thanks, I've listened to that yawn inducing generic melodeath band enough for one life time They will never be considered progressive on MS.

Generic....melodeath....I think this is truly the peak of your ignorance...

Edit: name ONE melodeath band that sounds like Scar Symmetry.

Written by LeKiwi on 10.02.2014 at 22:49

Written by [user id=4365] on 10.02.2014 at 22:47
No thanks, I've listened to that yawn inducing generic melodeath band enough for one life time They will never be considered progressive on MS.

Generic....melodeath....I think this is truly the peak of your ignorance...

Edit: name ONE melodeath band that sounds like Scar Symmetry.

Soilwork. Carnal Forge. In Flames. The Haunted. Darkane. Terror 2000. Mercenary. Hearse. Raunchy.

Everything is prog metal.


Specially if prog archives says so.

Reading last discussions I get this idea
How about edd to Manowar ''true'' heavy metal

Written by Vombatus on 11.02.2014 at 00:19

Everything is prog metal.


Specially if prog archives says so.

Apparently they have even listed Iron Maidne in there somehow

They even have Metallica down as prog related wtf?

That site is clearly one of those that deems anything prog that they like.

Written by [user id=126528] on 10.02.2014 at 23:55

Soilwork. Carnal Forge. In Flames. The Haunted. Darkane. Terror 2000. Mercenary. Hearse. Raunchy.

The only bands that come close to Scar Symmetry's sound are Soilwork and Raunchy, and both share alternative metal tendencies. Yet, in none of these do I hear poly-rhythmic instrumentation and frequent key/tempo changes. Only Carnal Forge and Soilwork share their neoclassical tendencies, but, even so, are limited in the scope of their incorporation. I think it is clear that Scar Symmetry's songwriting is more diverse, at least from '06-'08. At very least, an alternative metal tag would set them aside from the heaps of melodic death/gothenburg crap out there, but only a progressive metal tag would do them justice.

Uneven Structure - fine as djent/ambient (prog is unnecessary as the djent tag is already in use)
Scar Symmetry - perhaps more progressive than some melodeath bands, but not worthy of the prog tag

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.02.2014 at 00:22


That site is clearly one of those that deems anything prog that they like.

Just going through the "a" bands and spotted this: Alcest - Experimental/Post Metal.



Ridiculous website.

Written by [user id=4365] on 11.02.2014 at 11:01

Just going through the "a" bands and spotted this: Alcest - Experimental/Post Metal.



Ridiculous website.

progarchives is not actually a bad website. I appreciate the fact that they include some non-progressive bands in their data base, like what we have here with our non-metal bands. Problem is that they seek a formulaic categorization of music and what to detect the slightest amount of progressive elements in every band.

Written by mz on 11.02.2014 at 13:48

progarchives is not actually a bad website. I appreciate the fact that they include some non-progressive bands in their data base, like what we have here with our non-metal bands. Problem is that they seek a formulaic categorization of music and what to detect the slightest amount of progressive elements in every band.

And that's why their methods are not really compatible with this one. They want to incorporate as much into their definitions of "progressive" as possible, by exaggerating / focusing on, certain elements of particular bands and elevating their status based on a few technical points, rather this one which looks at bands in a more pragmatic way. Just because a band might use a few keyboards, the odd technical twist and more than one style of vocal, it doesn't make them a progressive band, it's how they apply those elements that really make a band progressive. Scar Symmetry for example apply them in an incredibly predictable and pedestrian way, so certainly not progressive enough for this site in which they should be categorised by the fact their ideas and overall application are governed by very standard songwriting conventions. In other words the sum should be the deciding factor, not the individual components. Otherwise all bands which show technical skill and techniques would be progressive, which they aren't.

Written by [user id=4365] on 11.02.2014 at 13:53


And that's why their methods are not really compatible with this one. They want to incorporate as much into their definitions of "progressive" as possible, by exaggerating / focusing on, certain elements of particular bands and elevating their status based on a few technical points, rather this one which looks at bands in a more pragmatic way. Just because a band might use a few keyboards, the odd technical twist and more than one style of vocal, it doesn't make them a progressive band, it's how they apply those elements that really make a band progressive. Scar Symmetry for example apply them in an incredibly pedestrian and predictable way, so certainly not progressive enough for this site.

I guess that's because they call them progarchive and want to have as complete as possible database. I've noticed that their information is lacking when it comes to prog metal. Most of their staff/users are against metal in general and that's why they don't have proper information about progressive metal on their website. Also, note that they classify genres like post rock as a subgenre of progressive rock, apparently because post rock is somehow unconventional compared to regular rock and I guess that's why they have alcest. Their extreme metal side is also not really well organized. I've seen straight tech death bands along opeth and deathspell omega there. All in all, a great website for anything prog rock, but that's not the case with metal related genres like prog metal, post metal and avantgarde metal.
PS: they have BaN as an experimental/post metal band :p

Written by mz on 11.02.2014 at 14:08

PS: they have BaN as an experimental/post metal band :p

Post-metal again? That's obviously their go-to genre for something they don't understand

Written by [user id=4365] on 11.02.2014 at 14:10



Post-metal again? That's obviously their go-to genre for something they don't understand

They probably mean that BaN is an experimental metal band but naming a category "experimental/post metal" is ridiculous, considering how far from experimentation most of post metal today is.

Written by mz on 11.02.2014 at 14:34

They probably mean that BaN is an experimental metal band but naming a category "experimental/post metal" is ridiculous, considering how far from experimentation most of post metal today is.

Experimental I can understand, it's an accurate description of how the band approaches its music, but "post" metal is a vague and nonsensical term in this instance and doesn't help identify anything about them. Especially when Alcest are considered part of the same genre according to them.

Written by [user id=4365] on 11.02.2014 at 14:36


Experimental I can understand, it's an accurate description of how the band approaches its music, but "post" metal is a vague and nonsensical term in this instance and doesn't help identify anything about them. Especially when Alcest are considered part of the same genre according to them.

It's easy to compare ALcest and BaN since both are French bands

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.02.2014 at 14:47


It's easy to compare ALcest and BaN since both are French bands

how about BaN and Isis then?

Written by mz on 11.02.2014 at 15:13

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.02.2014 at 14:47


It's easy to compare ALcest and BaN since both are French bands

how about BaN and Isis then?

Let me wreck my brain on that...

Oh yeah, since progarchives says they have something to do with prog they have something to do with prog

Written by [user id=4365] on 11.02.2014 at 14:36

Especially when Alcest are considered part of the same genre according to them.

I do consider Alcest to be shoegaze/post-metal/rock though (not their last album), with a certain amount of BM in their sound (which varies from album to album). But experimental? Nope, not at all.

There is nil djent in Pomegranate Tiger.

Written by LeKiwi on 12.02.2014 at 02:44

There is nil djent in Pomegranate Tiger.

Just listened to the first two minutes of the first song on bandcamp. And the riffing after about a minute or a little late certainly is djent.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.02.2014 at 03:43
Just listened to the first two minutes of the first song on bandcamp. And the riffing after about a minute or a little late certainly is djent.

No, they are simply poly-rhythmic riffs. In fact, those are palm muted power chords, unlike djent riffs which consist of single string chugs and a completely different tone. Persefone and Dream Theater have similar riffing styles at times, not djent.

In this instance I agree with LeKiwi. Pomegranate Tiger doesn't sound like djent to me.

An agreement? ...pigs do fly.

Uh anyway, I don't listen to this genre a great deal but I think it's easy to understand why Pomegranate Tiger are being associated with djent. Having a cursory listen now, the music is often heavily palm muted, as is djent (the onomatopoeic term itself originates from the use of palm muting), and unless you have a very particular understanding of the tone of djent (which LeKiwi demonstrates there) then it's relatively easy to link something like this with that genre, in my mind.
Having said that, and only having had a few close listens to this some time ago, I recall at least flecks of djent in it? Though I may be mistaken. Primarily it was instrumental prog when I listened to it.

Written by R'Vannith on 12.02.2014 at 13:35
Uh anyway, I don't listen to this genre a great deal but I think it's easy to understand why Pomegranate Tiger are being associated with djent. Having a cursory listen now, the music is often heavily palm muted, as is djent (the onomatopoeic term itself originates from the use of palm muting), and unless you have a very particular understanding of the tone of djent (which LeKiwi demonstrates there) then it's relatively easy to link something like this with that genre, in my mind.
Having said that, and only having had a few close listens to this some time ago, I recall at least flecks of djent in it? Though I may be mistaken. Primarily it was instrumental prog when I listened to it.

Yep, the signature djent style riffing often switches rapidly between open and palm muted single string riffs. Notes played openly have a unique tone - mid frequency are exaggerated - and the palm muted riffs often sound percussive. The percussive sound is achieved using effects to hamper the note duration, whereas without the effects the notes would continue to ring out momentarily even after being muted with a hand - they seek to achieve the opposite of what a delay pedal would do. Pomegranate Tiger displays none of these features. So yea, instrumental progressive.

Sorry for the technicality, but that's the best way I could explain it. Btw, this isn't specifically targeted at you, just at the discussion.

Written by LeKiwi on 12.02.2014 at 02:44
There is nil djent in Pomegranate Tiger.

I'd have to agree with you here. I only listened to their 2013 release (not sure if it's their debut or 10th album or what) for the sake of the Awards but now that you mention it, I think it sounds like more of a prog album than djent. As you pointed out, there are some slight djent elements, but not enough to really lump them in with other djent bands.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.02.2014 at 16:52
but not enough to really lump them in with other djent bands.

Yea, I don't think they should have been allocated to djent/math for the awards.

Moving on, Ulcerate should have the progressive.... Seriously though, shouldn't they have another genre tag that would separate them from typical brutal death metal? Perhaps atmospheric brutal death - just an idea, I'm unsure what would fit. They sound like other extreme experimental/avant-garde metal bands...

Also, All Pigs Must Die have the alias acronym APMD - source.

Atmospheric as a tag? Atmorspheric is in the eye of the beholder. So one man's atmospheric is another man's totally not atmospheric.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 13.02.2014 at 01:18

Atmospheric as a tag? Atmorspheric is in the eye of the beholder. So one man's atmospheric is another man's totally not atmospheric.

No I meant a combined tag - atmospheric brutal death metal. Mithras has that tag, and several other bands combine atmospheric with death in some form; The Monolith Deathcult and Septicflesh to name a few. That's not to say I agree with them, but if any band deserves such a title it would be Ulcerate.

I think that their style of "brutal death" is unique and innovative so they deserve a different tag something to do with experimental, avant-garde....progressive even...

Given how different Ulcerate are from brutal death metal bands, I'd support changing something about them. Not sure how I feel about adding prog (yet again) but atmospheric works - especially if we already have bands like Mithras and Septicflesh tagged as "atmospheric death metal".