Metal and punk have always had similarities, be it in lyrical themes, musically, or in some other way, but it almost always seems that these two types of music are not very friendly towards each other. Punks and metalheads seem to get in fights and what not. Now in my opinion i think they (are) should be friends. Both genres have alot in common, and many metal bands have done covers of 70's and 80's punk bands, and amy punk bands have crossed over from punk to metal. What do you guys think?

Similarities, sure. Hard rock and metal share a lot in common too, but the main difference is usually the extremity factor.

Now I'm not knocking on punks or hard rockers, but those two brands of music don't really carry the same weight as a lot of metal (specifically black/death/thrash as those are most similar in style). If' we're speaking in generalities where all black metal fans wear corpsepaint and all death metal fans sear inverted crosses on their foreheads, then the reason for the animosity is simply elitism.

Death metal fans are brutal, in your face, hardcore, whatever. Punks think more or less the same of themselves. But death metal fans think their extreme factor makes the punks look like pussies so that creates a rift between the two demographics. Likewise for thrash metal. Thrash and punk typically center around political lyrical themes, but again - thrash is more aggressive and extreme and the punks think the same way so the same rift is created. Then there's the black metal fan base, where burning down a church conquers wailing about the death of a monarch. Yet another rift.

At the end of the day it all comes down to generalizing all types of fans of their respective genres, comparing said fans and genres, and all of a sudden you've got a "my favorite band is heavier than your favorite band" kind of situation. Punk and metal are both the anti-popularity/mainstream/easylistening style of music, but with all their similarities they're still worlds apart and a lot of fans don't live those differences down. It's in some peoples' nature to bicker about a lack of commonalities.

As for what I think about the music...I don't really care. I listen to what I like and what I like doesn't often involve punk.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 27.10.2011 at 04:56

Similarities, sure. Hard rock and metal share a lot in common too, but the main difference is usually the extremity factor.

Now I'm not knocking on punks or hard rockers, but those two brands of music don't really carry the same weight as a lot of metal (specifically black/death/thrash as those are most similar in style). If' we're speaking in generalities where all black metal fans wear corpsepaint and all death metal fans sear inverted crosses on their foreheads, then the reason for the animosity is simply elitism.

Death metal fans are brutal, in your face, hardcore, whatever. Punks think more or less the same of themselves. But death metal fans think their extreme factor makes the punks look like pussies so that creates a rift between the two demographics. Likewise for thrash metal. Thrash and punk typically center around political lyrical themes, but again - thrash is more aggressive and extreme and the punks think the same way so the same rift is created. Then there's the black metal fan base, where burning down a church conquers wailing about the death of a monarch. Yet another rift.

At the end of the day it all comes down to generalizing all types of fans of their respective genres, comparing said fans and genres, and all of a sudden you've got a "my favorite band is heavier than your favorite band" kind of situation. Punk and metal are both the anti-popularity/mainstream/easylistening style of music, but with all their similarities they're still worlds apart and a lot of fans don't live those differences down. It's in some peoples' nature to bicker about a lack of commonalities.

As for what I think about the music...I don't really care. I listen to what I like and what I like doesn't often involve punk.

Makes alot of sense, but in my opinion, they are more together than apart, but maybe thats because i like punk almsot as much as i like metal.

I find this thread highly ironic. You say that metal and punk should be friends but a common fusion of the two is metalcore. Of course you probably think metalcore = As I Lay Dying and are totally clueless to the more pure forms of metalcore like Integrity, Merauder etc. and seeing as you make sweeping generalisations about genres I wouldn't expect you to have anything worth saying about it.

Written by Guest on 27.10.2011 at 22:53

I find this thread highly ironic. You say that metal and punk should be friends but a common fusion of the two is metalcore. Of course you probably think metalcore = As I Lay Dying and are totally clueless to the more pure forms of metalcore like Integrity, Merauder etc. and seeing as you make sweeping generalisations about genres I wouldn't expect you to have anything worth saying about it.

Yeah a lot of people seem to write off metalcore, either because some elitist tells them its not " real metal" or because they find it too dissonant. I find it strange that the dissonance puts off a lot of fans of extreme music.


Anyway... when I was kid, my first forms of harsh sounding music were punk bands. Namely Bad Brains and Black Flag. Punk has 1000 times more aggression and feeling than metal, which more than makes up for any shortcomings in terms of extremity and complexity.

It is clear a couple of people in this thread really don't know what they are talking about. Oh my God hoe I love total ignrance.

Written by Guest on 27.10.2011 at 22:53

I find this thread highly ironic. You say that metal and punk should be friends but a common fusion of the two is metalcore. Of course you probably think metalcore = As I Lay Dying and are totally clueless to the more pure forms of metalcore like Integrity, Merauder etc. and seeing as you make sweeping generalisations about genres I wouldn't expect you to have anything worth saying about it.

Not necessarily, thrash metal + punk = crossover thrash. Crossover thrash =/= metalcore.

Written by king_matt on 27.10.2011 at 23:48

Written by Guest on 27.10.2011 at 22:53

I find this thread highly ironic. You say that metal and punk should be friends but a common fusion of the two is metalcore. Of course you probably think metalcore = As I Lay Dying and are totally clueless to the more pure forms of metalcore like Integrity, Merauder etc. and seeing as you make sweeping generalisations about genres I wouldn't expect you to have anything worth saying about it.

Not necessarily, thrash metal + punk = crossover thrash. Crossover thrash =/= metalcore.

I didn't say it was the only fusion, "but a common fusion of the two is metalcore," and the fact is metal and punk is quite often metalcore. That fact is undeniable.

I agree with JOOE, I mean the melodic metalcore bands that everyone hates on obviously aren't a mixture of punk and metal. They're more like a mix of power metal and hardcore.

But metalcore bands draw a great deal of influence from punk directly. There's the punk+metal metalcore and the hardcore+heavy metal metalcore.

Here must be people knowing what punk is all about.

I could go into so much detail with this, but I'll just say this: I've never seen any difference between Punk and Metal. The main difference people see are the music stylings. Of course you can't really compare The Clash and Slayer, but you can compare bands like Sex Pistols and Megadeth (KIMB era, mainly). To me Punk has always not been about what the music is but what the people think. Punk and Metal are like distant brothers in that fashion. You don't buy punk, you make punk. That's what makes it punk.

Bring on the hate, contradictons, opinions, ect.

I don't think that friends or foes exist in music in general, its just music, and music is for a persons individual tastes. Rarely do any two people share exact tastes they may for instance like the same thing for very different reasons. I think work on a basis of friend or foes can be counter productive for both metal and punk in this case given that punk, along with hard rock and other similar genres often provide people with a stepping stone to metal. Most people i know who listen to metal usually have an entry band that is not quite metal but close enough to be called punk, hard rock, ect. In that respect its just music, you either like it or you don't.

The music and the fan bases are two different things entirely.

I think so too. I mean, like I said, I think there are similarities but all in all there's a reason one is called punk and the other heavy metal.

I think Punk influenced Thrash-Metal, which influenced Death-Metal and all three can influence today's many subgenre's.

I like the band Hatebreed, yet another blog like this has them blacklisted because 'they are not metal', which to me is ridiculous. Hatebreed is heavier than 2/3s the bands 'allowed' on that particular site. Sure, Hatebreed have a sub-genre more specific to their music but a lot of what they play is most certainly 'metal' in nature. Down-tuned guitars, heavy pulverizing riffs, and anger which typifies many Thrash/Death/Metal bands. I don't think you have to sing about Satan or hopelessness or Death to be, at least in part, metal.

Bands like Destruction I listened to before Death-Metal really even was recognized as it is today (it's very own sub-genre!). I would have thought Slayer was death-metal at the time but now - everyone says 'thrash'. Slayer, as undeniably evidenced by their album 'Undisputed Attitude' were influence by Punk. Many, many other bands were - including Metallica. Obviously, bands may draw from a variety of genres to create their own music. Hard Rock influences many bands. Punk others. We can go on and on about that.

Bottom line for me is this: without one we may well not have the other. Punk bands helped give birth to other forms of music just as other forms of music do the same. Black Sabbath was death-metal in the 1970's+. Bands that typify the genre nowadays didn't exist back then. So all this labeling has to have an important element often condemned or overlooked: context. When people say OMG Slayer isn't death-metal! I chuckle, because when Hell Awaits came out did death-metal as it's know now even exist? So although today's influx of bands have helped create and clarify more ways to identify music/bands, it's important to credit influences and recognize bands at different periods of time, rather than condemning with a 'you labeled that band WRONG!', 'they're not GENRE XYZ!'. At the time, maybe they were.

Written by Misfit74 on 28.10.2011 at 02:35
I like the band Hatebreed, yet another blog like this has them blacklisted because 'they are not metal',

Just an FYI.

http://metalstorm.net/bands/band.php?band_id=2918&bandname=Hatebreed

Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.10.2011 at 02:39

Written by Misfit74 on 28.10.2011 at 02:35
I like the band Hatebreed, yet another blog like this has them blacklisted because 'they are not metal',

Just an FYI.

http://metalstorm.net/bands/band.php?band_id=2918&bandname=Hatebreed

Yes, and perhaps I should clarify. I mean another blog similar to this has them blacklisted (not metalstorm.net).

Written by Misfit74 on 28.10.2011 at 02:49
I mean another blog similar to this has them blacklisted (not metalstorm.net).

Ah, fair enough. Just wanted to let you know we aren't that close-minded!

Oh how I love these discussions because practically the entire genre of metal was influenced by punk some 50 years ago...

Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.10.2011 at 02:51

Please ban hooray87...thats obviously a bot...

50?

please list for me the cross-pollination of punk and metal that was going on in 1962.

I'm sure Sid Vicious would have fitted in with the early Norweigian Black Metal scene.

I've never understood the difference between Hard Rock and Metal. Well, in India the bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Mastodon, System of a Down, Red Hot Chillie Peppers, Limpbizkit, Slipknot and many more are considered into the ROCK GENRE! which actually puts me in a conundrum that on what/why basis they actually classified into that. Different story though but I've never found a difference between Hard Rock and Metal. It may sound strange to some guys out here, but honestly imo they're mutually inherited. As far as Metal and Punk is concerned, Punk's aggression, hate, frustration, goodness of evil is actually extension to Metal! Lyrically Punk has an edger, much offended raw lyrical stuff that have puts some bands in to SERIOUS LAW CASES.

Written by Guest on 27.10.2011 at 23:06

Written by Guest on 27.10.2011 at 22:53

I find this thread highly ironic. You say that metal and punk should be friends but a common fusion of the two is metalcore. Of course you probably think metalcore = As I Lay Dying and are totally clueless to the more pure forms of metalcore like Integrity, Merauder etc. and seeing as you make sweeping generalisations about genres I wouldn't expect you to have anything worth saying about it.

Anyway... when I was kid, my first forms of harsh sounding music were punk bands. Namely Bad Brains and Black Flag. Punk has 1000 times more aggression and feeling than metal, which more than makes up for any shortcomings in terms of extremity and complexity.

I''m gonna be "that guy"... Bad Brains and Black Flag are considered hardcore

To get back on track here, I have a lot of punk and metalhead friends. They don't see eye to eye on music too much, but they get along

I think if you can get past someones taste in music and not be a douche then you can be friends

I enjoy a lot of punk when I'm in the mood for something more fun, and usually metal the rest of the time. There's a few decent punk bands still kicking like Juicehead, Leftover Crack, and Star Fucking Hipsters. I think most bands that are considered punk nowadays are more poppy than punk/hardcore from the 70s and 80s. That's one reason why a alot of people diss it.

Same goes for metalcore. There are some pretty decent metalcore bands out there, a lot of them are so generic and poppy as well anymore, its pretty easy to bash. I've always considered metalcore "gateway metal". Pretty much all of my punk friends only metal music they like are metalcore bands like A7F and KSE, not amazing bands at all, but it's a start I suppose

Some people need to get off their high horse and realize its just music, entertainment. To quote Crass, "Scenes are systems, and systems kill."

Written by Crème fraiche on 28.10.2011 at 20:39

I''m gonna be "that guy"... Bad Brains and Black Flag are considered hardcore

Black Flag can be considered both, they helped pioneer hard core punk, which became hard core.

it's amusing that so many people divide metal into further and further subgenres and sub-subgenres... yet somehow this magic wall gets built to separate punk and hard core, a derivative of punk.

it always makes me laugh to see punk bands i was listening to in the 80's, as punk bands, get co-opted decades later into a punk subgenre as if it were a completely separate genre altogether.

Written by BitterCOld on 28.10.2011 at 21:19

Written by Crème fraiche on 28.10.2011 at 20:39

I''m gonna be "that guy"... Bad Brains and Black Flag are considered hardcore

Black Flag can be considered both, they helped pioneer hard core punk, which became hard core.

it's amusing that so many people divide metal into further and further subgenres and sub-subgenres... yet somehow this magic wall gets built to separate punk and hard core, a derivative of punk.

it always makes me laugh to see punk bands i was listening to in the 80's, as punk bands, get co-opted decades later into a punk subgenre as if it were a completely separate genre altogether.

Idk i think they have a distinct different sound and feel. Minor Threat compared to the Sex Pistols, there's definitely a difference. I think this topic belongs in a different thread

Written by Crème fraiche on 29.10.2011 at 00:04
Idk i think they have a distinct different sound and feel. Minor Threat compared to the Sex Pistols, there's definitely a difference. I think this topic belongs in a different thread

Punk = parent genre.
Hardcore = child genre.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 29.10.2011 at 00:06

Written by Crème fraiche on 29.10.2011 at 00:04
Idk i think they have a distinct different sound and feel. Minor Threat compared to the Sex Pistols, there's definitely a difference. I think this topic belongs in a different thread

Punk = parent genre.
Hardcore = child genre.

nicely said

Written by Crème fraiche on 29.10.2011 at 00:04


Idk i think they have a distinct different sound and feel. Minor Threat compared to the Sex Pistols, there's definitely a difference. I think this topic belongs in a different thread

sex pistols have a different sound from the clash who have a different sound from dead kennedys who have a different sound from FEAR... part of the beauty of punk in the early stages was the fact that so many bands had different approaches to the music... and even ideologies or beliefs, as opposed to by the mid-90s when everything coming from, say, Fat Wreck Chords sounded mightily similar.

and to a certain extent this is on topic, as we're discussing punk and it's relationship with metal... different definitions of what comprises punk clouds the issue. i find it amusing you agreed with Troy's point about "parent/child" genre when i had said the same thing a couple posts above, as hard core being derivative of punk and thus a punk sub-genre in much the same way thrash metal is a metal sub-genre.

thrash is metal. no one denies yet. you wouldn't say "Slayer isn't a metal band, they are a thrash band" would you?

yet you essentially did the same thing with Bad Brains/Black Flag ... "They aren't punk bands, they are hard core."