Oh, and Void, you were the first and only person to mention "elitism" - seems to me like you have it on the brain.

Written by Guest on 03.12.2011 at 23:36
if you people choose to be pissed

Who?

"Korn is not metal because their songs are not based around metal riffs. Pretty simple."
Oh yeah, that was also the dumbest shit I've heard all week.

Written by Guest on 03.12.2011 at 23:31


Well it's not an ecnyclopedia.

Also, please explain why it's called "Encyclopedia Metallum"

Written by Guest on 03.12.2011 at 23:41

Oh, and Void, you were the first and only person to mention "elitism" - seems to me like you have it on the brain.

Yep, I was wondering that myself. He's the only one in this thread who has mentioned that word. Seems if you can't reasonably attack people for what they've actually said, just put words in their mouths to make your own argument have more weight. Yep, that isn't a strawman alright...

Written by Angelic Storm on 03.12.2011 at 23:47


Yep, I was wondering that myself. He's the only one in this thread who has mentioned that word. Seems if you can't reasonably attack people for what they've actually said, just put words in their mouths to make your own argument have more weight. Yep, that isn't a strawman alright...

He seems to have a weird predilection for the "emo" stereotype, three separate pics in his profile, none of them him. I'm going for some identity crisis here, I just can't figure out if he's defending the emo faith: the ultimate target for elitism, or if there's a nice big dollop of hypocrisy here with the his potential belittlement of the emo styling and music. I'm guessing the latter.

Written by Guest on 03.12.2011 at 23:51
He seems to have a weird predilection for the "emo" stereotype, three separate pics in his profile, none of them him. I'm going for some identity crisis here, I just can't figure out if he's defending the emo faith: the ultimate target for elitism, or if there's a nice big dollop of hypocrisy here with the his potential belittlement of the emo styling and music. I'm guessing the latter.

Seeing as he's made several hypocritical statements in this thread, coupled with the very obvious irony that he amazingly fails to notice, I suspect you are right.

You can hate all nu metal but KoRn were not responsible for all those bands that copied their style and ruined it, instead they are trying to create a new genre with all the risks involved instead of playing the same over again or get more commercial sound. This album is better than every album starting from SYOTOS. I wish KoRn great success

There are a few bands blacklisted here that make me scratch my head, but that is a separate topic. Korn had some good songs early on. I lost interest when Issues came out and realized they weren't gonna grow much and that JD's whining was getting on my nerves..

Written by MetalicIron on 04.12.2011 at 00:02

You can hate all nu metal but KoRn were not responsible for all those bands that copied their style and ruined it, instead they are trying to create a new genre with all the risks involved instead of playing the same over again or get more commercial sound. This album is better than every album starting from SYOTOS. I wish KoRn great success

That's exactly right. Youngsters have a habit of retroactively judging bands based on occurrences that happened after said band's inception. Much like how people started hating At the Gates after the gazillion metalcore bands started lifting their riffs.

Written by Guest on 03.12.2011 at 23:19

The only thing more annoying than Korn is the people who assume that if you don't like Korn than you must be a "CLOSE MINDED ELITIST LOL IM BETR DEN U CUZ I LIZEN 2 MAINSTREAM MEHTUL!!!!!!!!!!" As far as this album goes, I'm listening too the first song and it's actually pretty cool.


^Metal Archives has countless bands that the people that you would use the elitist strawman to clasify as hate, including but not limited to Trivium, KSE, AILD, ATR, Whitechapel, Carnifex, Impending Doom, Unearth, and countless others. Korn is not metal because their songs are not based around metal riffs. Pretty simple.

oh new Fleshgod Apocalypse isnt metal

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 00:08
That's exactly right. Youngsters have a habit of retroactively judging bands based on occurrences that happened after said band's inception. Much like how people started hating At the Gates after the gazillion metalcore bands started lifting their riffs.

Couldn't agree more. I remember the huge praise heaped on At The Gates by most in the extreme metal community, back in the 90's. Something which was only further supplanted by "Slaughter Of The Soul". Which is an irony, as that same community which seemed to think they could do no wrong back then, now mostly vilify them, as they are seen as responsible for a sub-genre (metalcore, or even worse, mallcore lol) that is seen as not being "real metal". Revisionist attitudes never cease to baffle and amuse me...

Written by Angelic Storm on 04.12.2011 at 00:18



Couldn't agree more. I remember the huge praise heaped on At The Gates by most in the extreme metal community, back in the 90's. Something which was only further supplanted by "Slaughter Of The Soul". Which is an irony, as that same community which seemed to think they could do no wrong back then, now mostly vilify them, as they are seen as responsible for a sub-genre (metalcore, or even worse, mallcore lol) that is seen as not being "real metal". Revisionist attitudes never cease to baffle and amuse me...

I wonder if Marcel falls under that umbrella, given how he hates At the Gates (I suspect he doesn't care about what they meant for future bands, I think he just hates them for what they are).

With every generation seems to come with a new set of values, it seems.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 00:21
I wonder if Marcel falls under that umbrella, given how he hates At the Gates (I suspect he doesn't care about what they meant for future bands, I think he just hates them for what they are).

With every generation seems to come with a new set of values, it seems.

Well, Marcel doesn't really qualify as a "youngster", so I doubt his hatred for them has anything to do with revisionist attitudes.

But certainly, I can't recall seeing any venom directed at them back in the mid-90's, at least not by the majority. (which I think is the big difference between back then, and now) The level of hatred for them now is no doubt, far greater than it was back then. So the revisionist attitude is certainly coming into play there, even if it doesn't have anything to do with why someone like Marcel doesn't like them.

Written by Angelic Storm on 04.12.2011 at 00:27



Well, Marcel doesn't really qualify as a "youngster", so I doubt his hatred for them has anything to do with revisionist attitudes.

But certainly, I can't recall seeing any venom directed at them back in the mid-90's, at least not by the majority. (which I think is the big difference between back then, and now) The level of hatred for them now is no doubt, far greater than it was back then. So the revisionist attitude is certainly coming into play there, even if it doesn't have anything to do with why someone like Marcel doesn't like them.

Ah I think I misread what you said. I thought you said that people that liked them when they were first around started disliking them after the metalcore boom happened. Nevermind then!

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 00:21

I wonder if Marcel falls under that umbrella, given how he hates At the Gates (I suspect he doesn't care about what they meant for future bands, I think he just hates them for what they are).

With every generation seems to come with a new set of values, it seems.

I really enjoy Gardens Of Grief and The Red In The Sky... and With Fear... but already found Terminal... weak when it was released and Slaughter Of The Soul even weaker at the time. So way before the "metalcore" you talk about was even about. AT the time metalcore was hardcore mixed with metal, like Cro-Mags after their debut, Merauder, some Agnostic Front etc

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.12.2011 at 00:31


I really enjoy Gardens Of Grief and The Red In The Sky... and With Fear... but already found Terminal... weak when it was released and Slaughter Of The Soul even weaker at the time. So way before the "metalcore" you talk about was even about. AT the time metalcore was hardcore mixed with metal, like Cro-Mags after their debut, Merauder, some Agnostic Front etc

For some reason I thought you hated everything they did, even their early stuff.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 00:32

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.12.2011 at 00:31


I really enjoy Gardens Of Grief and The Red In The Sky... and With Fear... but already found Terminal... weak when it was released and Slaughter Of The Soul even weaker at the time. So way before the "metalcore" you talk about was even about. AT the time metalcore was hardcore mixed with metal, like Cro-Mags after their debut, Merauder, some Agnostic Front etc

For some reason I thought you hated everything they did, even their early stuff.

Oh no I love the demo and the debut and really like the second album. But that's it.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 00:29

Ah I think I misread what you said. I thought you said that people that liked them when they were first around started disliking them after the metalcore boom happened. Nevermind then!

Well, I'm sure there are some people who liked them first time around who did disown them as a result of their name being associated with the metalcore boom that came later. But I wasn't specifically meaning that.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.12.2011 at 00:50
Oh no I love the demo and the debut and really like the second album. But that's it.

Same here.

"The Red In The Sky..." is their best album, but I also really like "Slaughter Of The Soul".

Written by Troy Killjoy on 04.12.2011 at 01:21

Looks like Marcel loves Korn's demo and debut albums.

Hhahahahah nice one.

Written by Angelic Storm on 04.12.2011 at 01:21

"The Red In The Sky..." is their best album, but I also really like "Slaughter Of The Soul".

SOTS is ok... But yeah, their best is The Red.

Fck this

AtG's best album is the Gardens of Grief demo for sure ;]

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 02:27

AtG's best album is the Gardens of Grief demo for sure ;]

Grotesque's In the Embrace of Evil FTW!

Written by Clintagräm on 04.12.2011 at 02:40

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 02:27

AtG's best album is the Gardens of Grief demo for sure ;]

Grotesque's In the Embrace of Evil FTW!

Not actually AtG

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.12.2011 at 04:01

Written by Clintagräm on 04.12.2011 at 02:40

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 02:27

AtG's best album is the Gardens of Grief demo for sure ;]

Grotesque's In the Embrace of Evil FTW!

Not actually AtG

Nope, but it reminded me of the split with them!

Written by Clintagräm on 04.12.2011 at 04:06

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.12.2011 at 04:01

Written by Clintagräm on 04.12.2011 at 02:40

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 02:27

AtG's best album is the Gardens of Grief demo for sure ;]

Grotesque's In the Embrace of Evil FTW!

Not actually AtG

Nope, but it reminded me of the split with them!

You mean a split with themselves?

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.12.2011 at 04:13

Written by Clintagräm on 04.12.2011 at 04:06

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.12.2011 at 04:01

Written by Clintagräm on 04.12.2011 at 02:40

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 02:27

AtG's best album is the Gardens of Grief demo for sure ;]

Grotesque's In the Embrace of Evil FTW!

Not actually AtG

Nope, but it reminded me of the split with them!

You mean a split with themselves?

I've read At the Gates' Gardens of Grief and Grotesque's In the Embrace of Evil were re-released as a split by Century Media in 2001 (says Wiki).

Written by Clintagräm on 04.12.2011 at 04:30
I've read At the Gates' Gardens of Grief and Grotesque's In the Embrace of Evil were re-released as a split by Century Media in 2001 (says Wiki).

I had no idea it had been re-released as a split... And you can't believe everything you read on wiki.

Anyway, I'm only aware of it's original release on it's own in 1991.

Such a dog filth trash heap of a band.