Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:06

Written by malaikat on 04.12.2011 at 12:57

Give me one valid reason why he should have, acording to you, refuse this job.

I have explained my views adequately. And considering that you said (rightfully so) that he is one of the most sought after directors, we all know he would not have bankrupt himself by giving the finger to the guys who are giving a finger to all of their fans with this album. I rest my case.

Again, nice idealistic thinking, but that's not how the world works. You think Aronofsky gives a damn what would some Metallica fanboy think? No. He gets the money, he does the job. End of story.

Is it wrong? No, because he didn't do a Nazi-supportive video, he did a video for a rock song. Simple as that. Promoting "bad art" (purely subjective cathegory, even though I too hate LULU) is still promoting art.
And, once more: it's not Aronofsky's job to be a music critic, his job is to direct stuff.

Written by Irritable Ted on 04.12.2011 at 13:08

Getting George Lucas to do it would have been great. They could have had Jar Jar Binks sat on a singing table.

Having Jar Jar Binks miming James singing I am the table would have been classic.

Honestly, I've never even heard of this director, but for making a terrible song actually appear to be somewhere resembling something decent, deserves much praise I think.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:11

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.12.2011 at 13:08

^Again: having the idea that hollywood directors aren't there for the money either... Lols.

Stop putting words in my mouth, it's kind of gross.

Because that's the kind of bullshit you are implying.
You are saying that the director had enough money to say "fuck off" to the band. Well, Aronofsky just thought "hey! more money!" and did it right away. Every known director would have done the same thing. The idea of a director saying "fuck off, your song is awful" is a cute one indeed but it doesn't work that way.

"Bravo! Encore! That was brilliant!" is officially my new catch phrase when denouncing someone. Beats "Cool story bro" and all sorts of other mundane phrases.

At least they had the decency to cut the overly boring parts like they did with the video for St. Anger. now it sounds decent, not bad in my opinion actually. now if someone could do the same thing with the rest of the album...

Written by malaikat on 04.12.2011 at 13:12

Again, nice idealistic thinking, but that's not how the world works.

That's not an argument, ya know. And BTW, Leonard Nimoy turned down a role in Star Trek: Generations, because the script sucked. I just remembered that. His an inspiration to all of us silly idealistic thinkers.

Also, has anyone stopped to think of the possibility that the director actually LIKES the song? Just because the popular consensus is that the album sucks, doesn't mean that everyone is going to view it that way. Seeing as it's unknown to the general public what Darren Aronofsky thinks of "The View", nobody should be claiming to speak on his behalf when it comes to his opinion on the music. Maybe he does see it as good art.

@Valentin: Agreed, the song sounds greatly improved in it's edited form.

Quote:
His an inspiration to all of us silly idealistic thinkers.

Just for the record Ernil: There's absolutely nothing wrong in saying "fuck off" to the band, I would encourage that tbh. But there's nothing wrong in doing it either.

Ernilthingy is also implying that every director of praiseworthy origin should only produce that which is regarded as quality or "high culture" merchandise and ignore the twinkle of the dollar sign. I don't quite see why he should fall under a different set of values than everyone else. There's something to be said for artistic irony for a director of excellent cinema purposefully taking on something which is abjectly regarded as shit right across the board. That's too much of a grey area for Ernilwhatsit though.

Fact is this video = High pay, small impact. It won't affect Arofonsky in any way other that his bank account.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:18


That's not an argument, ya know. And BTW, Leonard Nimoy turned down a role in Star Trek: Generations, because the script sucked. I just remembered that. His an inspiration to all of us silly idealistic thinkers.

Yet later appeared in the super-popular-expensive, Disney-remake "Star Trek" looking like a drag queen. Go figure.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.12.2011 at 13:17

Because that's the kind of bullshit you are implying.

Nope, I wasn't implying that at all. So let me explain once again: there is a big difference between a director doing one of the following:

1) Accepting money for directing something that has potential and turns out either good or bad. All Hollywood directors do this and I have never denied this, sorry.
2) Accepting money for deliberately endorsing something awful like getting paid for directing a film based on a script that they know is awful, producing a film that they know is going to be awful (Spielberg+Transformers) etc.

What Aronofsky has done by directing this video falls into the second category. And I don't like it.

Quote:

You are saying that the director had enough money to say "fuck off" to the band. Well, Aronofsky just thought "hey! more money!" and did it right away. Every known director would have done the same thing. The idea of a director saying "fuck off, your song is awful" is a cute one indeed but it doesn't work that way.

Leonard Nimoy. The man, the great man who destroys this cop out of an excuse.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:26


Leonard Nimoy. The man, the great man who destroys this cop out of an excuse.

I'll say again, assuming you don't have me blocked, the fact Nimoy gave himself up for the Star Trek production destroyed his reputation. Generations was little more than a feature length episode of The Next Generation (that's why it was so good) whereas Star Trek was an ill-advised, revisionist attempt at recreating the Star Trek universe for the audience that found the Star Trek franchise too complicated to engage with. And Nimoy looked fucking ridiculous in it and did it because Abrams offered him a pay cheque bigger than Praxis (pre-explosion of course).

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:26
Leonard Nimoy. The man, the great man who destroys this cop out of an excuse.

Just an exception to my eyes, I said it before and I can say it again.
There's nothing wrong with the ideal of saying "fuck off" to a bad song, script, whatever.... I would encourage that. But I'm also not going to think less of those who just want to do some job because they like doing it.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:38

I'll say again, assuming you don't have me blocked, the fact Nimoy gave himself up for the Star Trek production kinda killed his reputation.

I know. According to me, he had a choice like Aronofsky had a choice, that is my point. According to everyone else - including yourself -, the world simply doesn't work any other way. So YOU should not have a problem with Nimoy.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:38

Generations was little more than a feature length episode of The Next Generation (that's why it was so good) whereas Star Trek was an ill-advised, revisionist attempt at recreating the Star Trek universe for the audience that found the Star Trek franchise too complicated to engage with. And Nimoy looked fucking ridiculous in it and did it because Abrams offered him a pay cheque bigger than Praxis (pre-explosion of course).

I will not discuss Star Trek movies here, but take a look at this and get back to me on the movie thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06WKYFYdlo

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:52



I know. According to me, he had a choice like Aronofsky had a choice, that is my point. According to everyone else - including yourself -, the world simply doesn't work any other way. So YOU should not have a problem with Nimoy.

I will not discuss Star Trek movies here, but take a look at this and get back to me on the movie thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06WKYFYdlo

I don't have a problem with it, I was simply using it to highlight the flaw in your statement. I don't care if Nimoy dresses up in ballet outfit and advertises anal lubricant. He's human (despite the prevailing theories) and can do whatever he wants. If he endorses bad films it doesn't affect his history.

As much as I'd love to watch armchair reviewers prattle on with their own sense of self grandeur I do actually have an exam tomorrow and have a number of film theorist and analyst journals and articles to absorb. I suspect I'll derive more from that than Youtube clips.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.12.2011 at 13:50

Just an exception to my eyes, I said it before and I can say it again.
There's nothing wrong with the ideal of saying "fuck off" to a bad song, script, whatever.... I would encourage that.

And so would I. Except I would go a bit further and also discourage the opposite of saying no to awfulness by criticizing such decisions. Good conversation though, for a Sunday morning/afternoon.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:58

I don't have a problem with it, I was simply using it to highlight the flaw in your statement.

There was no flaw in my statement. I never said Nimoy never accepted a bad role for good money, I merely said that he was proof that such a decision was possible.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 13:58
Good conversation though, for a Sunday morning/afternoon.

Not bad indeed... We never brought up our mothers, that should count for something!
I don't know if this is the case but there are some directors or songwritters that just enjoy doing everything they get the chance to do, like a child enjoying a game so dumb by the outsider's perspective. Some people just enjoy doing their work despite finding the result shitty or not. Just being there can be nice for someone in those fields and I see it as a healthy behaviour.

Written by Angelic Storm on 04.12.2011 at 13:20

Also, has anyone stopped to think of the possibility that the director actually LIKES the song? Just because the popular consensus is that the album sucks, doesn't mean that everyone is going to view it that way.

Ahh, the voice of reason. Outside the metal world this album is not actually regarded as piece of shit, and the reviews are varied. Basically, you guys are most probably not the targeted audience of this one.

I like how Lou is incorporated into this video, and the song is cool, but the ending (encore! bravo!) is just clean douchebaggery.

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 14:02



There was no flaw in my statement. I never said Nimoy never accepted a bad role for good money, I merely said that he was proof that such a decision was possible.

In any light Nimoy largely made his name as the Spock character so "selling" that name to a poor film for large sums of money is a far more egregious crime than a film director making a bad music video. One is a betrayal of cinematic icon, the other is just a side project. So in my mind the two don't compare.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.12.2011 at 14:03

Not bad indeed... We never brought up our mothers, that should count for something!

I think we just earned +1 man points. Which can unfortunately only be exchanged for more man points. Trade?

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 14:04

In any light Nimoy largely made his name as the Spock character so "selling" that name to a poor film for large sums of money is a far more egregious crime than a film director making a bad music video. One is a betrayal of cinematic icon, the other is just a side project. So in my mind the two don't compare.

Indeed. Which also means that the decision to turn down Generations was a harder one than it would have been for Aronofsky to turn down Lulu Reed and Co.

BTW, if ever you want to discuss the 2009 Trek film for fun, let me know on the movie thread. I'll be there with a vengeance (I actually paid money to see that piece of Lulu).

Written by Kub on 04.12.2011 at 14:04
Ahh, the voice of reason. Outside the metal world this album is not actually regarded as piece of shit, and the reviews are varied. Basically, you guys are most probably not the targeted audience of this one.

I like how Lou is incorporated into this video, and the song is cool, but the ending (encore! bravo!) is just clean douchebaggery.

Well, I've always been more objective than subjective I guess... I never allow my own personal opinion, neither popular opinion affect how I see the bigger picture. As much as I myself haven't really liked what I've heard off "Lulu", and also knowing what most metal fans think of it, I'm not that arrogant or pretentious to believe that nobody could like it, or find any worth in it. So if the director did happen to like the song, it wouldn't overly surprise me.

What I find funny, is at several points in the video, including the beginning, Lou Reed looks as if he's almost falling asleep, like he's bored. Of course, the director probably asked him to do that, but I found it amusing. As for the ending, I don't have a problem with that. It seems like the kind of thing Lou Reed would do, and I think he is genuinely into the music and the project...

Written by Angelic Storm on 04.12.2011 at 13:20

Also, has anyone stopped to think of the possibility that the director actually LIKES the song? Just because the popular consensus is that the album sucks, doesn't mean that everyone is going to view it that way. Seeing as it's unknown to the general public what Darren Aronofsky thinks of "The View", nobody should be claiming to speak on his behalf when it comes to his opinion on the music. Maybe he does see it as good art.

OR, maybe he sees all this "rock" music as crap and doesn't know how bad it exactly is
I mean, it's not like he directed the Rebecca Black video. It's not like he's gonna help them gain fans with this. This is probably a normal day's work for the dude. Frankly, if I was some hotshot director and Metallica asked me to record their video, I wouldn't give a crap for the suckiness of their music... they would help MY career and promotion with it, unless I'm Spielberg or somethin'.

Written by Milena on 04.12.2011 at 14:29
OR, maybe he sees all this "rock" music as crap and doesn't know how bad it exactly is
I mean, it's not like he directed the Rebecca Black video. It's not like he's gonna help them gain fans with this. This is probably a normal day's work for the dude. Frankly, if I was some hotshot director and Metallica asked me to record their video, I wouldn't give a crap for the suckiness of their music... they would help MY career and promotion with it, unless I'm Spielberg or somethin'.

I didn't say or imply that he did like it. Just pointed out that it was a possibility, which might be an out-of the ball-park notion to most (metal fans at least), but still a valid point that I felt had to be made.

But yep, if I were him, I'd probably have no problem in directing it, even if I didn't really like the music.

Written by Angelic Storm on 04.12.2011 at 14:37

I didn't say or imply that he did like it. Just pointed out that it was a possibility, which might be an out-of the ball-park notion to most (metal fans at least), but still a valid point that I felt had to be made.

But yep, if I were him, I'd probably have no problem in directing it, even if I didn't really like the music.

I know, I was just exploring similar analogies, since we're the only two persons who thought of stuff like those seriously though, this discussion got me a bit worried for MS, although two of the participants earned themselves bonus man points in the end... there was "shits" and similar insults thrown around among otherwise nice people and reasonable posters. Are you guys nervous for some reason? Stuff to share in a suitable ranting thread, perhaps?

Written by Guest on 04.12.2011 at 14:07

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.12.2011 at 14:03

Not bad indeed... We never brought up our mothers, that should count for something!

I think we just earned +1 man points. Which can unfortunately only be exchanged for more man points. Trade?

They can be traded for sandwiches, but mine are deadly.

I was just listening to Battery and seeing this makes me sad

The interesting thing 'bout this video is Lou "the noisy potato bag" is wearing-not wearing glasses...
well...when you can be a table,you can simultaneously wear and NOT wear glasses...perhaps lou reed discovered the 4th dimension?
who knows?but Darren Aronofsky...

I was at the music store near me yesterday and someone asked the owner what people were saying about the album. His response was: "Nothing, and no one is buying it either. I've sold 5 or 6 copies so far and for an album by Metallica, that's unheard of."

It made me smile.

Written by WorpeX on 04.12.2011 at 16:54

I was at the music store near me yesterday and someone asked the owner what people were saying about the album. His response was: "Nothing, and no one is buying it either. I've sold 5 or 6 copies so far and for an album by Metallica, that's unheard of."

It made me smile.

what you just wrote made me smile.

apparently the album gets what it deserves.