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The original post

Posted by bj_waters on 13.12.2011 at 05:31
I have been slowly working on a bit of a chart keeping track of what I think the history of metal is and I now present it to you so that you can mock and deride it to your pleasure. From that, I should be able to extract some constructive criticism.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51621351/History%20of%20Metal%20According%20to%20Me.jpg

(Yes, it's a spreadsheet. Shut up.)

First of all, I should note that a lot of this is kind of general. I have a lot of bands lined up with years, but they are not meant to be exact.

Second of all, I'm sure you'll notice that I chart a lot of bands and styles that aren't heavy metal (psychodelic rock, grunge, etc.). They are mostly there for context.

I certainly don't think that my chart is perfect at all, but I figured I might as well show what I've got and see if I've missed anything. In fact, I think I'm already feeling the piercing glare of HellishStar for not including any US Power Metal (I just don't know what to do with it!)



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bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  15.12.2011 at 00:05
Updated again!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51621351/History%20of%20Metal%20According%20to%20Me.jpg

I took out some of the subgenre titles to make room for more bands. Please double check the death and black sections especially.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18180
From: Canada

  15.12.2011 at 00:08
That's looking much nicer.
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Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15097

Age: 21
From: Sweden

  15.12.2011 at 00:52
Needs grindcore But yeah, the death and black parts are looking better
Also, early Anathema, Paradise Lost and My Dying Bride are very important for the doom category (pioneers of death/doom metal)
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
enumaelis

Posts: 264

Age: 31
From: Spain

  15.12.2011 at 01:01
Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 22:39

Written by enumaelis on 14.12.2011 at 18:17
...Amorphis, Before The Dawn, Eternal Tears of Sorrow...

None of those bands are "Suomi metal".

I've never seen the term used anywhere outside of Metal Storm, but from what I understand it's basically pussified melancholic rock, basically the exact same thing as goth rock.

well, they are Suomi cause they are finnish, and they all have that same "melancholic feeling" that is so finnish in lower or higher grade, or I think so, and that's why latest amorphis or the other 2 have that thing of "Suomi Metal" for me (I also have read some review appreciating that). But it is true that this kind of "label" might be vague in the end.

out of Metalstorm hmm well just watched the group created in Last FM, with a short explanation of what it is (and why it is not exactly Goth Rock):
http://www.lastfm.es/group/Suomi+Metal
Tho I think this text is reducing the number of bands under that "style" (if can be considered like that), would be nice to read some user that is a fan of these bands, from Sentenced to Before The Dawn (I am just liking some few, so not exactly fan or expert XD).
----
http://enumaelis.blogspot.com/
enumaelis

Posts: 264

Age: 31
From: Spain

  15.12.2011 at 01:20
Written by bj_waters on 14.12.2011 at 23:28

I have no idea what Suomi metal even is. Whenever I punch those bands into MA, I get gothic, so maybe they'd fall under gothic metal?

Yes, with that, indeed would be much easier if you list under gothic Metal and forget about subgenres
My fault, for getting you confused.
----
http://enumaelis.blogspot.com/
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3035

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  15.12.2011 at 01:27
Although Celtic Frost and Hellhammer are basically same band i think that for matter of precision you should add Hellhammer to the First wave bm ....
and also ... you can use this as guide :
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18180
From: Canada

  15.12.2011 at 01:31
Whatever you do, just don't put Opeth in "goth metal".
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
enumaelis

Posts: 264

Age: 31
From: Spain

  15.12.2011 at 01:38
Oh by the way, I forgot I had found a similar web-project time ago:
http://mapofmetal.com/#/home
----
http://enumaelis.blogspot.com/
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18180
From: Canada

  15.12.2011 at 01:48
Written by enumaelis on 15.12.2011 at 01:38
http://mapofmetal.com/#/home

It's already been suggested, and he already responded to it.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
enumaelis

Posts: 264

Age: 31
From: Spain

  15.12.2011 at 02:08
Written by Troy Killjoy on 15.12.2011 at 01:48

Written by enumaelis on 15.12.2011 at 01:38
http://mapofmetal.com/#/home

It's already been suggested, and he already responded to it.

Ouch sorry, didnt see it
----
http://enumaelis.blogspot.com/
bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  15.12.2011 at 05:19
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 15.12.2011 at 01:27

Although Celtic Frost and Hellhammer are basically same band i think that for matter of precision you should add Hellhammer to the First wave bm ....
and also ... you can use this as guide :


Refer to Troy Killjoy's first comment.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 15.12.2011 at 01:31

Whatever you do, just don't put Opeth in "goth metal".


I believe I already have them hiding under progressive. I've never listened to them; is this accurate?
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18180
From: Canada

  15.12.2011 at 05:20
Written by bj_waters on 15.12.2011 at 05:19
I believe I already have them hiding under progressive. I've never listened to them; is this accurate?

That is very much accurate. The only thing "gothic" about them is perhaps their logo.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
JCJen7

Posts: 423

Age: 20
From: USA

  15.12.2011 at 07:48
Written by bj_waters on 15.12.2011 at 05:19


I believe I already have them hiding under progressive. I've never listened to them; is this accurate?


well....you should like...listen to them.
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Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36379

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  15.12.2011 at 08:24
Written by Mr. Doctor on 14.12.2011 at 23:32

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 09:11
Technically you should scrap names like Judas Iscariot and Grand Belial's Key, since as far as I know they weren't exactly revolutionary.


Reading the posts before posting is overrated anyways...
But still... Master's Hammer? Or where they included in the "names like.." list?


Like Troy said Master's hammer are extremely important to symphonic black. And weirdly enough they were extremely well know within extreme metal circles back when the first two albums were released but are less known nowadays.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

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05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  15.12.2011 at 08:36
Written by JCJen7 on 15.12.2011 at 07:48

Written by bj_waters on 15.12.2011 at 05:19


I believe I already have them hiding under progressive. I've never listened to them; is this accurate?


well....you should like...listen to them.


Sure, I'll add them to the list along with the other 280 someodd bands I'd like to listen to. (You guys seriously underestimate how new I am to metal.)
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18180
From: Canada

  15.12.2011 at 08:45
Written by bj_waters on 15.12.2011 at 08:36
Sure, I'll add them to the list along with the other 280 someodd bands I'd like to listen to. (You guys seriously underestimate how new I am to metal.)

Well you've been here since 2008 and you're creating a history chart of metal...
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Prettier than BloodTears.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 21
From: Serbia

  15.12.2011 at 18:41
Conception and Vanden Plas aren't really all that popular or influential in progressive metal. As for what to put in, some pretty big bands would be Ayreon, Evergrey and Shadow Gallery (doing prog since early nineties, so they deserve a mention).
----
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Mr. Doctor
Skandino

Posts: 15097

Age: 21
From: Sweden

  15.12.2011 at 20:18
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 15.12.2011 at 08:24
Like Troy said Master's hammer are extremely important to symphonic black. And weirdly enough they were extremely well know within extreme metal circles back when the first two albums were released but are less known nowadays.


I'm such a mainstream fuck...
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
vezzy
Stallmanite

Posts: 3490
From: Bulgaria

  15.12.2011 at 22:10
Written by Mr. Doctor on 15.12.2011 at 20:18
I'm such a mainstream fuck...


Me too. I can't believe I really like a band that was once very well known in the extreme metal scene. I shall now repent for my sins by looking up random Albanian bands on MA.
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bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  16.12.2011 at 03:35
Here's another update. I've tweaked things all over the place.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51621351/History%20of%20Metal%20According%20to%20Me.jpg

How does it look now? Am I missing anything?
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3035

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  17.12.2011 at 00:15
Also i think if we count viking metal into Folk metal category,than Bathory is one of its roots...
as for else its nice...
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Fade To Black

Posts: 70

Age: 21
From: Canada
  24.12.2011 at 01:18
Written by bj_waters on 16.12.2011 at 03:35

Here's another update. I've tweaked things all over the place.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51621351/History%20of%20Metal%20According%20to%20Me.jpg

How does it look now? Am I missing anything?


I know i didn't follow up on my last suggestion but I'll try to redeem myself.
The chart could use Grindcore on it, some Napalm Death, Pig Destroyer and what not.
lordchadi

Posts: 102
From: Egypt

  08.01.2012 at 02:27
Are u love all these bands or u just putting names for the most famous bands

i think u forget King Diamond & Death
bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  08.01.2012 at 08:29
Written by lordchadi on 08.01.2012 at 02:27

Are u love all these bands or u just putting names for the most famous bands

i think u forget King Diamond & Death


While the emphasis is definitely on influential and reknowned bands, I'll admit that I'm placing some of my personal bias on it. I mean, the chart IS labeled "Metal History According to Me." This isn't part of any kind of grand project, it's just something I put together, and I decided to post it here for criticism to see if I can make it better.

As for your recommendations, Death is smack dab in the middle (1987) and I'm content with Mercyful Fate under the First Wave of Black Metal in regards to King Diamond. I don't know much about him or his music, but I figure that his time in Mercyful Fate was more important historically.
JohnDoe

Posts: 2128
From: Romania

  04.11.2012 at 11:38
Procul Harem?! Don't know if to laugh or cry.

Alan Parsons Project are not that representative or important for progressive rock; but bands like Genesis, Van Der Graaf Generator, Gentle Giant, Camel or Caravan were (these bands were even influential for a lot of progressive metal bands later on).
----
"what happens in my subconscious is not my business"
bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  04.11.2012 at 20:09
Written by JohnDoe on 04.11.2012 at 11:38

Procul Harem?! Don't know if to laugh or cry.

Alan Parsons Project are not that representative or important for progressive rock; but bands like Genesis, Van Der Graaf Generator, Gentle Giant, Camel or Caravan were (these bands were even influential for a lot of progressive metal bands later on).


I admit that my relationship with Prog Rock is VERY weird. Growing up listening to Yes, Pink Floyd, and Alan Parsons, and not much else (in the way of prog), so except for those three bands, I'm a kind of a noob to the genre. I mean, I seriously listened to Rush for the first time about two/three years ago ("Oh, so that's what all this is about"). I'm certain that I haven't covered Prog Rock as well as I could have (I really should add Genesis, now that I'm a little more aware of their impact). I'll probably keep Alan Parsons on, just simply because they're one of my favorites.

It's actually been a while since I've looked at this thing, and it really is kind of ugly looking. I really should put some of my newly gained Photoshop skills to work and make something that's easier on the eyes. This way I can also track how one genre affects another.
JohnDoe

Posts: 2128
From: Romania

  05.11.2012 at 10:04
Written by bj_waters on 04.11.2012 at 20:09

Written by JohnDoe on 04.11.2012 at 11:38

Procul Harem?! Don't know if to laugh or cry.

Alan Parsons Project are not that representative or important for progressive rock; but bands like Genesis, Van Der Graaf Generator, Gentle Giant, Camel or Caravan were (these bands were even influential for a lot of progressive metal bands later on).


I admit that my relationship with Prog Rock is VERY weird. Growing up listening to Yes, Pink Floyd, and Alan Parsons, and not much else (in the way of prog), so except for those three bands, I'm a kind of a noob to the genre. I mean, I seriously listened to Rush for the first time about two/three years ago ("Oh, so that's what all this is about"). I'm certain that I haven't covered Prog Rock as well as I could have (I really should add Genesis, now that I'm a little more aware of their impact). I'll probably keep Alan Parsons on, just simply because they're one of my favorites.

It's actually been a while since I've looked at this thing, and it really is kind of ugly looking. I really should put some of my newly gained Photoshop skills to work and make something that's easier on the eyes. This way I can also track how one genre affects another.


Alan Parsons Project is a good band, no doubt about it; Rush and Kansas are important and influenced progressive metal later.

As for psychedelia, early Blue Cheer and Vanilla Fudge are important (VF were an influence on early Deep Purple) for both prog and hard rock & early heavy metal.
American bands like Grand Funk, Steppenwolf, Mountain and Alice Cooper shaped up the hard rock scene. And there are bands I am not aware of for sure.
----
"what happens in my subconscious is not my business"
bj_waters

Posts: 230

Age: 29
From: USA

  05.11.2012 at 22:37
Written by JohnDoe on 05.11.2012 at 10:04

Alan Parsons Project is a good band, no doubt about it; Rush and Kansas are important and influenced progressive metal later.

As for psychedelia, early Blue Cheer and Vanilla Fudge are important (VF were an influence on early Deep Purple) for both prog and hard rock & early heavy metal.
American bands like Grand Funk, Steppenwolf, Mountain and Alice Cooper shaped up the hard rock scene. And there are bands I am not aware of for sure.


I appreciate the input. When I decide to sit down and re-do this, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

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