Cynic Metalhead Paisa Vich Nasha
Posts: 6816 |
The Hunter clocked 52.54, this going around 60 mins. More fun, moar fun!!
Excited.
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Ace Frawley The Spaceman
Posts: 1458 |
Yeah, looking forward to this one. They haven't disappointed me yet.
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The sun shines over The Fool...
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Hallford9000
Posts: 242 |
Opeth and Mastodon. My sophisticated metal ear is waiting...
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LeKiwi High Fist Prog
Posts: 4038 |
LeKiwiHigh Fist ProgPosts: 4038
Written by Hallford9000 on 05.04.2014 at 13:46
Opeth and Mastodon. My sophisticated metal ear is waiting...
Mastodon sophisticated? Great band, but far from it
Edit: at least relative to Opeth
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!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted |
!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted
For a "sludge" band Mastodon are about as sophisticated as they come, probably why they don't even get called sludge any more by many.
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LeKiwi High Fist Prog
Posts: 4038 |
LeKiwiHigh Fist ProgPosts: 4038
True, but in the context of Opeth that's undermined.
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!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted
Written by LeKiwi on 05.04.2014 at 16:15
True, but in the context of Opeth that's undermined.
Within their own contexts Mastodon are about as sophisticated as sludge gets, and although I'm not always a fan of them they do exceptionally well in elevating the sludge genre beyond its roots, whereas Opeth just so happen to inhabit an area of music which is seen as a de facto "sophisticated" genre anyway. In the proper context Mastodon are doing more for the genre than Opeth are so I'd probably call them the more sophisticated band.
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Cynic Metalhead Paisa Vich Nasha
Posts: 6816 |
I'm seeing lot of Opeth references here and in honesty I don't see any fucking connection out here. Mastodon is not sophisticated, Opeth is sophisticated? Where did you drawn from?!
Mastodon is pushing up envelope, Opeth is bouncing within it's walls. Opeth's music btw has always bored me to death(except first few records which was good enough, not outstanding).
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LeKiwi High Fist Prog
Posts: 4038 |
LeKiwiHigh Fist ProgPosts: 4038
Written by Guest on 05.04.2014 at 16:20
Within their own contexts Mastodon are about as sophisticated as sludge gets, and although I'm not always a fan of them they do exceptionally well in elevating the sludge genre beyond its roots, whereas Opeth just so happen to inhabit an area of music which is seen as a de facto "sophisticated" genre anyway. In the proper context Mastodon are doing more for the genre than Opeth are so I'd probably call them the more sophisticated band.
I see your point, but we're talking about sophisticated here, not revolutionary or innovative - "developed to a high degree of complexity."
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!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted |
!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted
Written by LeKiwi on 05.04.2014 at 18:10
I see your point, but we're talking about sophisticated here, not revolutionary or innovative - "developed to a high degree of complexity."
Indeed, and I think that quote supports Mastodon more than it does Opeth. Opeth haven't "developed" progressive music insofar as they've only really maintained it, whereas Mastodon have indeed developed the sludge genre with quite a high degree of complexity and sophistication from what it originally was i.e. bludgeoning, hate-filled punk related metal. Just because Mastodon aren't as proggy as Opeth doesn't mean they aren't sophisticated as I don't think Opeth or prog music has a monopoly on the definition of "sophistication". You could argue Opeth aren't sophisticated relative to Johann Sebastian Bach who was infinitely more complex than them - if you went down that route by comparing unrelated music, which is more or less what an Opeth and Mastodon comparison is.
Incidentally, "innovatory" and "revolutionary" are in fact synonyms of sophisticated:
2.
(of a machine, system, or technique) developed to a high degree of complexity.
"highly sophisticated computer systems"
synonyms: advanced, highly developed, innovatory, trailblazing, revolutionary
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mz
Posts: 4774 |
mzPosts: 4774
But opeth beats Bach, Beethoven and Mozart.
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Giving my ears a rest from music.
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!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted
Written by mz on 05.04.2014 at 18:23
But opeth beats Bach, Beethoven and Mozart.
Only according to that one review
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Uldreth
Posts: 1150
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I don't really think Opeth is that sophisticated at all.
Their earlier stuff was standard gothenburg with nonstandard acoustic parts and their later stuff was standard prog with some nonstandard elements but those don't make it super sophisticated.
For me Opeth was always best when they restrained themselves and focused on an interplay of harsh sections with soft sections containing beautiful melodies, which were often quite simplistic actually. I guess when they execute that well, their sense of dynamics can be considered sophisticated but that's it. As much as I love that band the amount of hyperbolic claims it receives is mindblowing.
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3rdWorld China was a neat
Posts: 4367 |
More prog please.
And looking forward to the artwork since Mastodon's covers have always been quite exquisite.
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Troy Killjoy perfunctionist StaffPosts: 21306 |
Why are we talking about Opeth?
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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Lit. Account deleted |
Lit. Account deleted
Weren't they on tour with Mastodon once?
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LeKiwi High Fist Prog
Posts: 4038 |
LeKiwiHigh Fist ProgPosts: 4038
Written by Guest on 05.04.2014 at 18:16 Indeed, and I think that quote supports Mastodon more than it does Opeth. Opeth haven't "developed" progressive music insofar as they've only really maintained it, whereas Mastodon have indeed developed the sludge genre with quite a high degree of complexity and sophistication from what it originally was i.e. bludgeoning, hate-filled punk related metal. Just because Mastodon aren't as proggy as Opeth doesn't mean they aren't sophisticated as I don't think Opeth or prog music has a monopoly on the definition of "sophistication". You could argue Opeth aren't sophisticated relative to Johann Sebastian Bach who was infinitely more complex than them - if you went down that route by comparing unrelated music, which is more or less what an Opeth and Mastodon comparison is.
Incidentally, "innovatory" and "revolutionary" are in fact synonyms of sophisticated:
2.
(of a machine, system, or technique) developed to a high degree of complexity.
"highly sophisticated computer systems"
synonyms: advanced, highly developed, innovatory, trailblazing, revolutionary
Mastodon generally follows simple song structures where as Opeth does not - that is what sophistication means in this context. We're not going to use synonyms of synonyms here.
Innovative: "featuring new methods; advanced and original."
Revolutionary: "involving or causing a complete or dramatic change."
Sophisticated: "developed to a high degree of complexity."
Don't argue for the sake of arguing, you well know that those sentences are not synonymous.
Progressive music is by definition complex, hence if a band were to play something of that nature they should be labelled as progressive. However, Mastodon is progressive so I don't see your point. I simply argued Mastodon wasn't as sophisticated as Opeth because one user put them in the same context, I would not have done so otherwise. If you take two entities and place them side by side and proceed to use the same adjective to describe them despite that fact that one possesses far more of that quality than the other and is made distinct by that difference, then what's the point?
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!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted |
!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted
Your quote comes from exactly the same body of text that the synonyms are derived from Talk about arguing for the sake of arguing. Certainly not worth carrying on a discussion with someone that quotes the internet then selectively ignores evidence from the exact same source which directly contradicts his entire argument. Amazing.
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Troy Killjoy perfunctionist StaffPosts: 21306 |
Seems like typical Opeth fanboyism. Mastodon's sound to me is more innovative, revolutionary, and
sophisticated than Opeth's.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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LeKiwi High Fist Prog
Posts: 4038 |
LeKiwiHigh Fist ProgPosts: 4038
I don't think that Opeth is the most complex or intelligent metal in the world as fanboys would usually say - there're are numerous artists who surpass them in that respect. Mastodon is not one of them, coming from a songwriting point of view.
Written by Guest on 05.04.2014 at 20:24
Your quote comes from exactly the same body of text that the synonyms are derived from Talk about arguing for the sake of arguing. Certainly not worth carrying on a discussion with someone that quotes the internet then selectively ignores evidence from the exact same source which directly contradicts his entire argument. Amazing.
That's because there are various definitions for each word, and you've selectively highlighted those which suit your fancy, that's not how arguments work. Read those definitions again - there is no way that anyone who's moderately well-read would be able to call those words synonyms with those definitions, the most commonly used ones.
Edit: selected those less common definitions*
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!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted
Written by LeKiwi on 05.04.2014 at 21:08
That's because there are various definitions for each word, and you've selectively highlighted those which suit your fancy, that's not how arguments work. Read those definitions again - there is no way that anyone who's moderately well-read would be able to call those words synonyms with those definitions, the most commonly used ones.
Sorry, I'm not interested in how you've snaked your way to being "right" by creating an entirely fabricated and personal context where only your selective definitions are correct. I'll let the people reading the discussion come to their own conclusions
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LeKiwi High Fist Prog
Posts: 4038 |
LeKiwiHigh Fist ProgPosts: 4038
Written by Guest on 05.04.2014 at 21:13
Sorry, I'm not interested in how you've snaked your way to being "right" by creating an entirely fabricated and personal context where only your selective definitions are correct. I'll let the people reading the discussion come to their own conclusions
Go ahead, define those three words in your own way (which you won't) and you'll see that they aren't synonyms in the conventional sense.
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TrollandDie
Posts: 274 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 05.04.2014 at 20:00
Why are we talking about Opeth?
Alteration of Godwin's law: the probability of bringing up Opeth in a prog metal discussion approaches 1 over time.
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Hello, my name is Mr......Snrub and I think it would be a capital idea to invest the money back in the nuclear plant.
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Hallford9000
Posts: 242 |
Written by Guest on 05.04.2014 at 15:57
For a "sludge" band Mastodon are about as sophisticated as they come, probably why they don't even get called sludge any more by many.
I don't think that the genre shows if a band is sophisticated. I said it because of their lyrics and the complex thematic structures of their albums.
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LeKiwi High Fist Prog
Posts: 4038 |
LeKiwiHigh Fist ProgPosts: 4038
Written by Hallford9000 on 05.04.2014 at 21:21
I don't think that the genre shows if a band is sophisticated. I said it because of their lyrics and the complex thematic structures of their albums.
It's not that complex really...but I see your point.
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!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted |
!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted
Written by Hallford9000 on 05.04.2014 at 21:21
I don't think that the genre shows if a band is sophisticated. I said it because of their lyrics and the complex thematic structures of their albums.
But even in comparison to the general populous of sludge Mastodon are more sophisticated than most of their peers, who are considerably more simplistic.
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Machiavelli Account deleted |
Machiavelli Account deleted
STFU. Try playing any Mastodon song and see how long it takes you and your "band" to master it... can't wait to hear this! Have a nice day all you people who have been crushed by the mighty MASTODON!
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Ocean Sage
Posts: 473 |
Am I the only one here who will comment on the actual article? I like the new title and I can't wait for the album! I like Opeth, but I love Mastodon AND I saw them both on The Hunter/Heritage Tour. They are both complex, but I'd say from a guitarist's perspective Mastodon is pushing playing to another level. Some of Brent's stuff is near impossible for the average or even professional players.
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Zap Guest
Posts: 3517 |
ZapGuestPosts: 3517
Written by Guest on 05.04.2014 at 15:57
For a "sludge" band Mastodon are about as sophisticated as they come, probably why they don't even get called sludge any more by many.
Are they technically still sludge?
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!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted |
!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted
Written by Zap on 06.04.2014 at 01:09
Are they technically still sludge?
Had another listen to the latest album earlier and not really sure. Sludge-lite at best but progressive sludge still suits them pretty well.
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