Written by [user id=2084] on 18.12.2008 at 17:29

Written by [user id=36489] on 17.12.2008 at 00:08

why did Metallica end up sucking after the Black Album?

Two words: Bob Rock

He turned them onto a more commercially assessable style of music and a slicker image and appeal...

The question was after Metallica - Metallica

But you are right... Bob Rock is the one that fucked them up most (lthough And Justice was already a major letdown to quite a few) He turned Metallica into a mainstream radio friendly metal band with Metallica - Metallica the album for which Dick Rock actually wrote the bass parts.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 19.12.2008 at 00:49

Written by [user id=2084] on 18.12.2008 at 17:29

Written by [user id=36489] on 17.12.2008 at 00:08

why did Metallica end up sucking after the Black Album?

Two words: Bob Rock

He turned them onto a more commercially assessable style of music and a slicker image and appeal...

The question was after Metallica - Metallica

But you are right... Bob Rock is the one that fucked them up most (lthough And Justice was already a major letdown to quite a few) He turned Metallica into a mainstream radio friendly metal band with Metallica - Metallica the album for which Dick Rock actually wrote the bass parts.

IMO, the firest wrong thing was Metallica themselves! cause it was them who wanted Bob Rock(a bon jovi man PFF), then u have to blame SICK ROCK. but im agree that it 70% of Sin has come from his works!

Written by [user id=36489] on 17.12.2008 at 00:08

When a band "sells out" it's because the type of music they play isn't widely liked and they are going to go under if they don't widen their appeal. Which brings the question to mind, why did Metallica end up sucking after the Black Album? They were making gold albums one after the other, and then it all went away when their style changed.

there r a lot of opinions about metallica, cause they r one the most important musicians of the world, and there r a lot of stories about them too, some true and some wrong! for example Ive heard that Rick Rubin's job in the metallica's studio was just "walking across the studio", lol.

but about the sold out and metallica, I cant be agree with no one who thinks that metallica was sold out at 90's or whenever. and I have reasons for this.

first of all, they have 9 studio albums since 1983. it means that they released an album almost every 3 years! if a band likes to be sold-out, its a bad result for them!

secondly, I dont remember if they've released any Compilations till now.(u can count just Garage Inc. , but IMO its a cover album) a band called sold-out but they dont have release a best album never! interesting!

thirdly, I dont remember if theyve expended a lot of money for a music video, do u? all of their music videos r really low-expended.

but there is a reason that alot of ppl talks about it, Mainstream! this is what Im not agree with! 90's mainstream music wasnt Hard Rock at least for it wasnt! all of us know that some of the very best metal albums were released at early 90's.

nowdays, Ive heard that Thrash Metal was mainstream at 2008, thats why metallica did a Thrash album

opeth, amon amarth, moonspell, "a lot of doom bands!", six feet under, cradle of filth ,.... etc. are they released thrash metal albums this year!? so why they sell very well?! Mainstream i think it doesnt work for metal Genre! (and metallica didnt decided to start to make this album this year, theyve decided to to this at least for 3 years, so I think its really funny that someone thinks that they did Thrash cause Thrash was Mainstream!)

but in the end Im agree that metallica wasnt kind for their old Thrashed fans at 90's and with st.anger too. thats why alot of old fans were disapointed, and alot of young ppl who r inspired by some old fans to say "metallica is not as they were-or to be honest, metallica is a shit".

Written by [user id=31891] on 25.12.2008 at 11:54

but in the end Im agree that metallica wasnt kind for their old Thrashed fans at 90's and with st.anger too. thats why alot of old fans were disapointed, and alot of young ppl who r inpired by some old fans to say "metallica is not as they were-or to be honest, metallica is a shit".

First, I don't agree with the statement "Metallica is shit." They are still the people who wrote "Master of Puppets" (album) and "Ride the Lightning" (album). I just don't think their new stuff is as good. One of my friends saw them in Denver on their latest tour and said they played Master of Puppets. It doesn't suddenly suck since it's not 1989 anymore. It's still Master of Puppets and they are still Metallica.
Second, you violated one of the rules of metal in your post. Never refer to St. Anger. Aww...crap.

Written by [user id=36489] on 26.12.2008 at 20:46

Written by [user id=31891] on 25.12.2008 at 11:54

but in the end Im agree that metallica wasnt kind for their old Thrashed fans at 90's and with st.anger too. thats why alot of old fans were disapointed, and alot of young ppl who r inpired by some old fans to say "metallica is not as they were-or to be honest, metallica is a shit".

First, I don't agree with the statement "Metallica is shit." They are still the people who wrote "Master of Puppets" (album) and "Ride the Lightning" (album). I just don't think their new stuff is as good. One of my friends saw them in Denver on their latest tour and said they played Master of Puppets. It doesn't suddenly suck since it's not 1989 anymore. It's still Master of Puppets and they are still Metallica.
Second, you violated one of the rules of metal in your post. Never refer to St. Anger. Aww...crap.

take it easy man, I didnt mean u! my words wrerent straight about u.

Sold Out...I think you're sold out when you start to think more about fans and money than the song itself; and you can find examples almost everywhere...even Britney Spears---------wtf!?, yeah...she.
Probably you remember her first album, "Baby one More time" (it has a song with the same name, a video of schoolgirl and stuff), if you think about it...is like "Oh! I'm a sweet girl...and I love this guy, but..." and that mostly the songs she has there (my sis used to listen her ALL the time ù__u), the second album the same, but with the time she is like remix, techno-music, sexy dancing, shake her ass, and "I want to have fun tonight!", and almost every female singer in the US is like that...why? sold out...she changed her (crappy xD) style to sell even more. If even Spears does it...why not Metallica or Iron Maiden?

Written by Kanto on 27.12.2008 at 16:03

Sold Out...I think you're sold out when you start to think more about fans and money than the song itself; and you can find examples almost everywhere...even Britney Spears---------wtf!?, yeah...she.
Probably you remember her first album, "Baby one More time" (it has a song with the same name, a video of schoolgirl and stuff), if you think about it...is like "Oh! I'm a sweet girl...and I love this guy, but..." and that mostly the songs she has there (my sis used to listen her ALL the time ù__u), the second album the same, but with the time she is like remix, techno-music, sexy dancing, shake her ass, and "I want to have fun tonight!", and almost every female singer in the US is like that...why? sold out...she changed her (crappy xD) style to sell even more. If even Spears does it...why not Metallica or Iron Maiden?

LOL... I don't really think that Iron Maiden sold out.
But we both know that Metallica did.

And don't talk about Britney here XD... It's completely off-topic since the thread itself is about metal bands that are concidered sold out.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 27.12.2008 at 16:16

Written by Kanto on 27.12.2008 at 16:03

Sold Out...I think you're sold out when you start to think more about fans and money than the song itself; and you can find examples almost everywhere...even Britney Spears---------wtf!?, yeah...she.
Probably you remember her first album, "Baby one More time" (it has a song with the same name, a video of schoolgirl and stuff), if you think about it...is like "Oh! I'm a sweet girl...and I love this guy, but..." and that mostly the songs she has there (my sis used to listen her ALL the time ù__u), the second album the same, but with the time she is like remix, techno-music, sexy dancing, shake her ass, and "I want to have fun tonight!", and almost every female singer in the US is like that...why? sold out...she changed her (crappy xD) style to sell even more. If even Spears does it...why not Metallica or Iron Maiden?

LOL... I don't really think that Iron Maiden sold out.
But we both know that Metallica did.

And don't talk about Britney here XD... It's completely off-topic since the thread itself is about metal bands that are concidered sold out.

Hahaha! Yeah...but that was the idea, that not just the really hard, 666, ugly and rude metalhead bands can become sold out [You guys know, from Master of Puppets to St. *you-can't-say-that*]. OK...britney is maybe not the best example because she always was commercial but it is OBVIOUS that she changed totally her lyrics and music, like some other bands out there.
But also it can be confused with sounds exploration or stuff, Queen did that with the Night In the Opera, if after that they get a huge fanclub and all the world knows their names...well, that's a good/funny coincidence I think ô.o

Ok, we've talked about Metallica quite a lot and now Britney Spears comes as an example that even comercial popstars can get even more comercial and therfore sell themselves out.

I have another example, Kid Rock ( I haven't read all the coments so if there was someone who already spoke about it, my apologies) Do you remember him? He was like the superduper rockstar in the 90s, even my stepbrother (who happened to like Metallica too xD) liked him. Kid Rock had a lot of girls around him in his videos, beer and other stuff; and now his song Sweet Rock Alabama (I think it's named like this) it's always on the radio, he totally changed.

I never liked him but, com'om, sweet rock alabama, what the hell is that ?:wall:

I think it is term that is thrown around pretty freely, I do however think there are bands and the like that do "sell out". In regard to metal though I think it is important to remember that metal isn't mainstream so when a band does "sell out" it is a pretty big deal in the eyes of metalheads, lol.

Written by Coté on 28.12.2008 at 17:47

I have another example, Kid Rock ( I haven't read all the coments so if there was someone who already spoke about it, my apologies) Do you remember him? He was like the superduper rockstar in the 90s, even my stepbrother (who happened to like Metallica too xD) liked him. Kid Rock had a lot of girls around him in his videos, beer and other stuff; and now his song Sweet Rock Alabama (I think it's named like this) it's always on the radio, he totally changed.

I never liked him but, com'om, sweet rock alabama, what the hell is that ?:wall:

it's "Sweet Home Alabama" and it was originally recorded by Lynyrd Skynyrd. Kid Rock made no bones about referencing or paying tribute to his influences in his songs. Skynyrd were one of them. He paid them tribute. It's not a sell-out any more than incorporating the riff from "Sad But True" into another of his songs.

Kid Rock only changes when people loose interest in him and that happens all the time because the bum has no talent

Written by Coté on 28.12.2008 at 17:47

I have another example, Kid Rock ( I haven't read all the coments so if there was someone who already spoke about it, my apologies) Do you remember him? He was like the superduper rockstar in the 90s, even my stepbrother (who happened to like Metallica too xD) liked him. Kid Rock had a lot of girls around him in his videos, beer and other stuff; and now his song Sweet Rock Alabama (I think it's named like this) it's always on the radio, he totally changed.

He managed to sell out an entire NHL Arena in my city during the summer, I think hes somehow managed to retain his popularity.

Written by [user id=2084] on 28.12.2008 at 21:41

Kid Rock only changes when people loose interest in him and that happens all the time because the bum has no talent

I'm so agree with you, he can't even write good lyrics...

And kid rock is a rock performer who started his career making commercially viable music, ergo there is no real sell-out.

this is in the general metal forum, not rock forum, therefore to remain ON TOPIC, kid rock is irrelevant. so is britney spears, and any other artist you conjure up whose initial interest was in commercial music. let's stick to the topic and quit wasting internet space deflecting the topic to go all soapbox on an artist you personally don't care for, especially if you don't know the actual name/origin of a song of "his" that you choose to rip.

taking a gander at your profile i see Dimmu and Megadeth - i'd consider both of them much bigger sell-outs than kid rock.

Dimmu is sell out but its not mainstream cradle is sell out but its not mainstream Im really against these idiotic terms as Sell out - Mainstream or such fuckin mainless terms. ( I have to Include Genre too! but its hard to explain it and this is not the area to talk about it)

In the Metal World, where is so "easy" to buy a T-shirt, wear long hair and act like rude...I think any "well-known" band <for example: angra, opeth, stratovarius, metallica, ozzy, dream theater, etc> can be considered sold-out just because a lot of kids (who have NO IDEA of metal [like me ]) listen to them

Written by Coté on 28.12.2008 at 17:47

Ok, we've talked about Metallica quite a lot and now Britney Spears comes as an example that even comercial popstars can get even more comercial and therfore sell themselves out.

I have another example, Kid Rock ( I haven't read all the coments so if there was someone who already spoke about it, my apologies) Do you remember him? He was like the superduper rockstar in the 90s, even my stepbrother (who happened to like Metallica too xD) liked him. Kid Rock had a lot of girls around him in his videos, beer and other stuff; and now his song Sweet Rock Alabama (I think it's named like this) it's always on the radio, he totally changed.

I never liked him but, com'om, sweet rock alabama, what the hell is that ?:wall:

It's All Summer Long. He just uses Sweet Home Alabama as a reference to the song in his lyrics.

Sold Out has a different meaning for everyone but in my opinion this is what selling out is.

1.You have a successful genre of music you play on every CD, you have made at least 2 albums, you have a loyal fan base that enjoys this type of music.
2. You are about the release another album and your record company tells you "right now breakdowns and minor seconds are very popular, in fact we'd even like if you added a few pig-squeals"
3.Your 3rd CD is hardcore influenced, your riffs are half-ass because you were too busy fitting into the money-making image of the time.
4.Your fan base is entirely turned over to fans who will last up to 2 years at most listening to your garbage and you will alienate the loyal fans.

An example of not selling out.
1.You have a successful genre of music you play on every CD, you have made at least 2 albums, you have a loyal fan base that enjoys this type of music.
2. You decide you have a new taste for Arabian jazz, so on your next album you decide to try add it in.
3. Your loyal fans hate Arubian Jazz so they don't like your new stuff and they are a little annoyed, but they don't feel betrayed because you didn't give up their fanship for money.

The problem is there are combinations of both situations.

For instance, one of my favorite bands, Children Of Bodom.

Favorite albums list goes like this
Follow The Reaper
Hatebreeder
Something Wild
Hatecrew Deathroll
Are You Dead Yet?
Blooddrunk

When bodom released Follow the reaper, it was in my opinion the pinnacle of their composing decisions. Alexi was still heavily influence by neo-classical artists like malmsteen and stratovarius. At this point in time, like 2001 this was a different bodom. But then Hatecrew deathroll came along and their style was still similar enough to be enjoyable and plus the producer (I think it was Anssi who did hatecrew cause follow the reaper was done by peter from hypocrisy) but my point is the recording had more production on it. This is an openness to change that led them to Trashed lost and strung out and are you dead yet. Alexi will tell you he simply is not writing classically influenced music anymore, but bodoms growing popularity puts them in questions.

I personally enjoy the recent albums, but no where near in the same ball park as their classics.
Would I say they sold out? yes, but a combination of changing musical tastes.

Sold out is an overused term that requires clafication. It is like impeaching someone, in order to call someone a sell out, they had to have been awesome at one time, so make a case of why they suck now.

that's what sold out is.

Agreed. When you stop making music for the sake of artistic outlet and creativity, and you start making music for money, you no longer can be considered an artist, and instead you have become a product for the masses to endorse for a short amount of time and then throw out like every other trend. This then, would mean you've "Sold Out" or sold yourself for the sake of profitable financial gain. Just because your successfull that doesn't make you a sellout, but if you changed for the sake of becoming successfull, well, that's where we draw the line.

I agree with Arian Totalis here. Hey, Maiden, Priest and Motorhead are plenty successful, and they are still Metal. But they haven't changed their style too much. And even when they do experiment, they always do something to reassure us they haven't sold out.

I'm not a big fan of the use of the term 'sold out' even in extreme circumstances for bands that may deserve it, because it is far too short and simple and answer that offers no explanation for why you believe a band has sold out. It is also a term that is thrown around too readily by many metal fans towards bands that produce an album they don't like as much as previous work by the same band. There can be many reasons for a change in style... Chemistry in the writing process; changes in the majority fan base; change in personnel; or simply a need to try something different. Saying that a band has simply 'sold out' tells others nothing of why you no longer like a band.

Written by ToMegaTherion on 15.03.2009 at 13:15

I'm not a big fan of the use of the term 'sold out' even in extreme circumstances for bands that may deserve it, because it is far too short and simple and answer that offers no explanation for why you believe a band has sold out. It is also a term that is thrown around too readily by many metal fans towards bands that produce an album they don't like as much as previous work by the same band. There can be many reasons for a change in style... Chemistry in the writing process; changes in the majority fan base; change in personnel; or simply a need to try something different. Saying that a band has simply 'sold out' tells others nothing of why you no longer like a band.

Couldn't agree more. A band can sell out as much as they want, as long as I continue to like their music. I also don't think that selling out automatically follows with artistic shortcomings, if indeed metal's charge actually is art and not entertainment. In my opinion, no Metallica album surpassed "Load" and even if the majority of the metal community won't agree with that assessment, Metallica did something right, writing an album that is really liked by a few people.

Well in my opinion selling out is when a band changes their sound to be hired to a bigger label and to get more money. "True" fans think of this as betrayal (cant really blame em). However, I do think it is good when bands start making money and go to other labels but DONT change their sound to be on radio, mtv, blah blah blah. Some bands deserve to get rich and follow their dreams and stay true at the same time. An example: Opeth. In my opinion Mikael Akerfeldt deserves every penny he is getting lately. Started off true, still true but just going with what he wants, not what people tell him to do and the band is still kickin it strong.

Written by DayFly on 15.03.2009 at 17:01

Written by ToMegaTherion on 15.03.2009 at 13:15

I'm not a big fan of the use of the term 'sold out' even in extreme circumstances for bands that may deserve it, because it is far too short and simple and answer that offers no explanation for why you believe a band has sold out. It is also a term that is thrown around too readily by many metal fans towards bands that produce an album they don't like as much as previous work by the same band. There can be many reasons for a change in style... Chemistry in the writing process; changes in the majority fan base; change in personnel; or simply a need to try something different. Saying that a band has simply 'sold out' tells others nothing of why you no longer like a band.

Couldn't agree more. A band can sell out as much as they want, as long as I continue to like their music. I also don't think that selling out automatically follows with artistic shortcomings, if indeed metal's charge actually is art and not entertainment. In my opinion, no Metallica album surpassed "Load" and even if the majority of the metal community won't agree with that assessment, Metallica did something right, writing an album that is really liked by a few people.

Very true, as long as a band continues to make good music regardless of there record label I will continue to enjoy them. Metallica is obviously one of the most talked about bands in regards to 'selling out'. While I wouldn't go as far as to say Load was there best work, it certainly has it place and there certainly are good songs on both Load and Reload, St Anger is a different story entirely.

It is really confusing. you know although i like some "sell out" albums of bands, i hate the reason why they made them sound like that.

but i have to say here that i do not believe that every band that releases a less agrresive album than the previous is fair to be called sell out..

Written by Deadmeat on 21.06.2009 at 12:06

It is really confusing. you know although i like some "sell out" albums of bands, i hate the reason why they made them sound like that.

but i have to say here that i do not believe that every band that releases a less agrresive album than the previous is fair to be called sell out..

I totally agree with what you wrote.

To me selling out is when you say fuck MTV then 2 years later your begging fans on your myspace to vote for your video over brittany spears. To me selling out is talking shit about certain bands and then taking a very simiiar band on tour with you a year later. I don't think it has to do with change of sound and making money as much as everyone thinks. Every band with a my space is trying to sell you something. Does this make everyone sell outs? Are they not entitled to try to make a profit? Is music supposed to be a hobby of theirs? I don't think so. I think their comes a point where the music becomes stale and living in a van just isn't that much fun anymore. Then once you get a taste for the good life it becomes a lot more difficult to go back. Look at bands like motörhead,slayer,and pantera they never really changed it up and as popular as they are they can't hold a candle to the fame metallica has achieved.

To me sell out is this statement (by the lovely Fred Durst):

"I am not a musician, I'm a business man!"

That's the most discusting thing I've heard in my life.

Written by brapp32 on 21.06.2009 at 13:24

To me selling out is when you say fuck MTV then 2 years later your begging fans on your myspace to vote for your video over brittany spears. To me selling out is talking shit about certain bands and then taking a very simiiar band on tour with you a year later. I don't think it has to do with change of sound and making money as much as everyone thinks. Every band with a my space is trying to sell you something. Does this make everyone sell outs? Are they not entitled to try to make a profit? Is music supposed to be a hobby of theirs? I don't think so. I think their comes a point where the music becomes stale and living in a van just isn't that much fun anymore. Then once you get a taste for the good life it becomes a lot more difficult to go back. Look at bands like motörhead,slayer,and pantera they never really changed it up and as popular as they are they can't hold a candle to the fame metallica has achieved.

yeah but whats wrong with myspace??? i have a band on my own and we'll are going to make a myspace account.. are we sell out?????