Written by [user id=30512] on 23.05.2008 at 21:24

Written by [user id=31891] on 20.05.2008 at 17:02

Written by [user id=30512] on 19.05.2008 at 10:20

Written by [user id=31891] on 17.05.2008 at 14:53

@Aei Ontos about israel's everything is really clear they r not secular-and about ww2 i should remind u that vatican supported FASCIST. u cant change history can u ?

Remember Marin Luther and remember how catholics called him cause he said the truth!(about buying teritory in heaven!!)
i have said a lot of things in my ex words but u answer some part of them why?
i ask u why how can u say that big wars werent religious? i numbered a lot of them scrool up,i didnt mention just israel and ww2 what u can say about the others?

I don't know what is clear about it that Israel is not a secular nation? That there are living judaïstic Jews? They are living in Holland and America and Iran and Syria also. But Israel was founded by secular Jews, and most of the Jewish people are secular. If Israel is not secular it would be muslim, as the majority of the religious Israelian people is muslim.
I know that the christian church did not do all good in the second world war. But the vatican did never directly work together with the nazis, while the arabs, egyptians and palestines worked together with the nazis to destroy the Jewish community. The nazis did it in their lands, the arabs, egypts and palestines did it in their lands and palestinia. The christian church did nothing worst than people in the mideast in this, my friend.

So, I did not say that wars are not religious, but my point was that the worst wars have not been religious. Both worldwars, the cold war, both where not religious, again. You say that I have nothing to learn from you and that I am full of prejudices, but you don't seem to be very much informed, but rather brainwashed. Of course, I know that Hezbolah is religious, I know that many awfull things are done in the name of religion. I am not blind. But, even without religion, I do not think that there would happen less awfull things. I think that there would be just as much wars, just as much hatred, just as much crimes. I think religion, how awfull the things that are done sometimes are, still is less worse than normal egoïsm.

there is somthin that i cant undrestand in ur words. u said that arabs did somthin with hitler,the ponit is that arabs r really religious ppl as Persians and as .... . we are talkin about religiouns,not christianity,not jewism ok? islam is religioun too but when i look at ur words,i feel that u think islam is not a religioun! yes it is . all of middle east even turks(my generation) r muslems.

and u talked about vatikan , we dont need to blame Vatikan cause they didnt send monks or somthin to the army!!? (i mean its enough that Vatikan recomended fascists,they didnt have to do anythin more than that did they?!)
but thats ok u r religious i respect u, but i cant be blind.
take a look at this link and read the religion section

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

in the end i have a question that who brainwashed me that religions r fuckin ?! G.W. Busch? or my country?! (i remembered that these new wars in middle east is created by an original christian G.W. BUSCH u have to add these wars to ur religious war collection)
u have to be on a religious country then u will find how filthy is religions, and the other way is the history, Middle Ages.

its so easy to be religious than to think and find ur own way of life.(i wrote this sentence,cause u have to think about BRANWASHED word)

I know a lot of not religious people, they are from turkey, but not muslim, and they still have a problem with jews. I agree that they might be largely influenced by their religious friends and family, but still, antisemitism is not just a problem of religious people. I had a friend from afghanistan, a muslim, and she had no problem with jews at all. And in WW2 it where both religious and atheistic people that worked together to destruct the jewish community. Religious people can cause wars, and especially when there are charismatic leaders they can easily cause wars and get lots of people that follow them to war. I see this problem.
About the vatican. I think you really have to blame the vatican with what they did or not did. There have been priests that saved jews, and even the pope seemed to have tried to save some jews, he might have feared to make the situation for jews only worse and thats why he should have hold back in his actions. But still, blame the vatican for what they did. Blame those who are responsible, always.

Well, I think it is already made clear by Dane, but the wars in Irak and Afghanistan don't have anything to do with religion. I has to do with power and money.
About the brainwashed thing, I used that word in a reaction on the post before, afther you found that I did not answer on all the questions you asked. So, I tried to answer it, but it is just so that I saw that the histrory teaching where you live must be pretty much different than where I live. But, a pert of the problem can also be in my county. It is pretty arrogant of me to think that our historyteaching is better than yours. I am sorry for that, I shouldn't have used that word.

I see that it is for you not a easy thing to be not muslim where you live, but so it is sometimes difficult for me to be christian where I live. That isn't really a problem. You have become an atheist because of what you have seen in your country, and what you see makes it on;y stronger. So it is with my faith. All that hings I see in my land makes that I would wish it was more like in your country in some ways (not all).

my dear friend im not Atheist im somthin like Pantheist(i think every piece of world is some part of god maybe someone calls is naturalism,so i believe in god but my definition is different from urs) and i dont need christ or muhammad to be good or not. cause i know myself what is good for me or not. u have said that ur country is better at teachin history.(europe for example) im agree that in my country they garble the history(and everyone in my country is agree with that) but be sure that urs (europe-usa- ..) garble history too. for example 300 movie . for example they,u,.... say that Persians r arabs !!!! or they tried to say that Persian Golf Is Arabic Golf. at 300 movie they showed that our great king was black ROFL. so dont talk about this things cause im not agree. the other thing that i have to answer u is that im not anti-jew so funny if u think that cause i didnt say anythin to make u feel that.

why didnt u answer me about my questions and just talkin urself? (plz look and answer my questions as i answer urs. u dont look at my words just run ur words and questions !!)
and garbles about WW2.

First:

1.how many muslems killed at WW2?
2.how many christians killed at WW2?
3.how many jews killed at WW2?

Second:

(after WW2)
1.muslems took advantage of WW2 the most?
2.christians took advantage of WW2 the most?
3.jews took advantage of WW2 the most?
4.Zionists ook advantage of WW2 the most?(i think zionists and jews r a little different )

Third:

1.the most important scientist of germany was muslems?
2.the most important scientist of germany was christian?
3.the most important scientist of germany was jewish?

Fourth:

1.how many palestinians(christian or muslem) israel have killed yet?
.....................

u said that its hard to be christian at ur country. dont joke man. in iran jews and christians live so nice. a lot of armenians and Assyrian(both r christians) lives exactly at my city.

for more information i have to say that Islam itself respect christians and jews as u can see at quran. but zionism is not mosaic.

First, about history I did not say that our historyteaching is better. Now, I will go on with the questions:
1.how many muslems killed at WW2?
I don't know. Some at least, as muslims from morrocco, algeria and other countries suchlike have fought in the french army against the nazi's. And muslims from other countries have worked together with the nazi's to destruct the jewish community.
2.how many christians killed at WW2?
I don't know either. It is the same story as with the muslims, some fought against the nazi's (both on a violent and a non-violent way) and some worked together with the nazi's.
3.how many jews killed at WW2?
Only few. They had a problem, almost everybody was against them and they couldn't really participate in resistance, as they had to hide day by day.

Second:

(after WW2)
1.muslems took advantage of WW2 the most?
No, they didn't really get positive neither negative effects of it. I think that the most antisemitic nations had the positive effects, while the antinazistic coutries, like algeria, got only trouble after it.
2.christians took advantage of WW2 the most?
Not the most, but, it is hard to say. The western society (which was mostly a christian society these days) really took advantage, with the marshallplan from the USA the society could develop and become stronger than she was before the worldwar. But, that richness brought also a downfall of religion, as many people today think that religion is for people that are dumb and far behind. So, at last, christianity had no advantage, but the western society has.
3.jews took advantage of WW2 the most?
The worldwar was the last drop needed to form the state Israel, so, yes, they took advantage of it. I mean, the prapring of it began already around 1900 when the jewish community started to grow there. But After 1945 all jews knew the importance of having their own state, not just the zionists.
4.Zionists ook advantage of WW2 the most?(i think zionists and jews r a little different )
Zionist didn't take advantage of it, the whole worldwar was not needed to accomplish their goals, which is to reunite the jewish people. No, it where the not zionistic jews that where faster than the zionist, the not zionist reunited the jewish people after the worldwar, and the zionists, they fought in Palestine.

Third:

1.the most important scientist of germany was muslems?
Nope, the most important scientists where atheistic.
2.the most important scientist of germany was christian?
Some where christian, indeed.
3.the most important scientist of germany was jewish?
There where in fact pretty much jewish scientists in nazi germany. The nazis kept the jewish scientist alive to let them work for them, and when they weren't needed anymore, only then they where killed. But those weren't really volunteers.

Fourth:

1.how many palestinians(christian or muslem) israel have killed yet?
I don't know how much exactly, but I am aware that those numbers outnumber the many Israelis that are killed by terrorists. As I said, Israel is not a religious country, so, that is not really a matter of discussion now.

After all, I live and easy and safe life, but, as a christian I am pretty much seen as "outdated," that is what I meand, but, compared to others I have nothing to complain about, I know. It is great that in Iran jews and christians live nice together with the other groups, well, I think that Iran might have another society than in the Netherlands, here christianity is not liberal and is 60 years behind and such. Don't believe that. Going forward is not always better.
And the Quran does indeed respect jews and christians, which does not always mean that muslims do so. That is not a problem of islam, but of all people. Zionism is biblical, and so it is mosaic. It is in the Torah, it is in the psalms, it is in the prophetic books. Where is it not?

Yes, I think religion had caused wars (and continues to even today), but it is not the only reason. The main ones surely are the struggle for sources and geopolitical power. Fact is that religion not only causes war, but mainly hatred between fellow humans

No religion that I know of Teaches to go to war with your fellow man Because of Your Differences or for any reason. On the contrary I believe all say help your fellow man. Instead that's just man's problem and not one religion instigated. Man is the One who Misinterprets and changes religion for his own benefit, therefore man is the one who causes war. We all have the right to our own thoughts and opinions and is no different for religious preference. I don't believe Religion is to be held accountable for War instead I blame the ignorance and Narrow Minds of man.

Written by Nighthowls on 26.05.2008 at 09:33

No religion that I know of Teaches to go to war with your fellow man Because of Your Differences or for any reason. On the contrary I believe all say help your fellow man. Instead that's just man's problem and not one religion instigated. Man is the One who Misinterprets and changes religion for his own benefit, therefore man is the one who causes war. We all have the right to our own thoughts and opinions and is no different for religious preference. I don't believe Religion is to be held accountable for War instead I blame the ignorance and Narrow Minds of man.

fact is that religion IS a creation of man, and I think that nobody can deny the major role played by it in lots of past conflicts

ur answers were true. but some.
why do u think if israel kills its diffence and if palestinians kill its terror.

and about hitle read bellow:

taken from: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/My_Political_Testament


My Political Testament
by Adolf Hitler
This is a testament given by Adolf Hitler on 29 April 1945. It is here taken from United States, Office of United States Chief of Counsel for Prosecution of Axis Criminality, Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, 8 volumes and 2 supplementary volumes (Government Printing Office, Washington, 1946-1948), VI, 259-263, Doc. No. 3569-PS.


More than thirty years have now passed since I in 1914 made my modest contribution as a volunteer in the first world war that was forced upon the Reich.

In these three decades I have been actuated solely by love and loyalty to my people in all my thoughts, acts, and life. They gave me the strength to make the most difficult decisions which have ever confronted mortal man. I have spent my time, my working strength, and my health in these three decades.

It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted the war in 1939. It was desired and instigated exclusively by those international statesmen who were either of Jewish descent or worked for Jewish interests. I have made too many offers for the control and limitation of armaments, which posterity will not for all time be able to disregard for the responsibility for the outbreak of this war to be laid on me. I have further never wished that after the first fatal world war a second against England, or even against America, should break out. Centuries will pass away, but out of the ruins of our towns and monuments the hatred against those finally responsible whom we have to thank for everything, international Jewry and its helpers, will grow.

Three days before the outbreak of the German-Polish war I again proposed to the British ambassador in Berlin a solution to the German-Polish problem—similar to that in the case of the Saar district, under international control. This offer also cannot be denied. It was only rejected because the leading circles in English politics wanted the war, partly on account of the business hoped for and partly under influence of propaganda organized by international Jewry.

I have also made it quite plain that, if the nations of Europe are again to be regarded as mere shares to be bought and sold by these international conspirators in money and finance, then that race, Jewry, which is the real criminal of this murderous struggle, will be saddled with the responsibility. I further left no one in doubt that this time not only would millions of children of Europe's Aryan peoples die of hunger, not only would millions of grown men suffer death, and not only hundreds of thousands of women and children be burnt and bombed to death in the towns, without the real criminal having to atone for this guilt, even if by more humane means.

After six years of war, which in spite of all setbacks will go down one day in history as the most glorious and valiant demonstration of a nation's life purpose, I cannot forsake the city which is the capital of this Reich. As the forces are too small to make any further stand against the enemy attack at this place, and our resistance is gradually being weakened by men who are as deluded as they are lacking in initiative, I should like, by remaining in this town, to share my fate with those, the millions of others, who have also taken upon themselves to do so. Moreover I do not wish to fall into the hands of an enemy who requires a new spectacle organized by the Jews for the amusement of their hysterical masses.

I have decided therefore to remain in Berlin and there of my own free will to choose death at the moment when I believe the position of the Fuehrer and Chancellor itself can no longer be held.

I die with a happy heart, aware of the immeasurable deeds and achievements of our soldiers at the front, our women at home, the achievements of our farmers and workers and the work, unique in history, of our youth who bear my name.

That from the bottom of my heart I express my thanks to you all, is just as self-evident as my wish that you should, because of that, on no account give up the struggle but rather continue it against the enemies of the Fatherland, no matter where, true to the creed of a great Clausewitz. From the sacrifice of our soldiers and from my own unity with them unto death, will in any case spring up in the history of Germany, the seed of a radiant renaissance of the National-Socialist movement and thus of the realization of a true community of nations.

Many of the most courageous men and women have decided to unite their lives with mine until the very last I have begged and finally ordered them not to do this, but to take part in the further battle of the Nation. I beg the heads of the Armies, the Navy, and the Air Force to strengthen by all possible means the spirit of resistance of our soldiers in the National-Socialist sense, with special reference to the fact that also I myself, as founder and creator of this movement, have preferred death to cowardly abdication or even capitulation.

May it, at some future time, become part of the code of honour of the German officer—as is already the case in our Navy—that the surrender of a district or of a town is impossible, and that above all the leaders here must march ahead as shining examples, faithfully fulfilling their duty unto death.

Second Part of the Political Testament

Before my death I expel the former Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering from the party and deprive him of all rights which he may enjoy by virtue of the decree of June 29th, 1941; and also by virtue of my statement in the Reichstag on September 1st, 1939, I appoint in his place Grossadmiral Doenitz, President of the Reich and Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces.

Before my death I expel the former Reichsfuehrer-SS and Minister of the Interior, Heinrich Himmler, from the party and from all offices of State. In his stead I appoint Gauleiter Karl Hanke as Reichsfuehrer-SS and Chief of the German Police, and Gauleiter Paul Giesler as Reich Minister of the Interior.

Goering and Himmler, quite apart from their disloyalty to my person, have done immeasurable harm to the country and the whole nation by secret negotiations with the enemy, which they conducted without my knowledge and against my wishes, and by illegally attempting to seize power in the State for themselves.

In order to give the German people a government composed of honourable men,—a government which will fulfill its pledge to continue the war by every means—I appoint the following members of the new Cabinet as leaders of the nation:

President of the Reich: DOENITZ Chancellor of the Reich: DR. GOEBBELS Party Minister: BORMANN Foreign Minister: SEYSS-INQUART

[Here follow fifteen others.]

Although a number of these men, such as Martin Bormann, Dr. Goebbels, etc., together with their wives, have joined me of their own free will and did not wish to leave the capital of the Reich under any circumstances, but were willing to perish with me here, I must nevertheless ask them to obey my request, and in this case set the interests of the nation above their own feelings. By their work and loyalty as comrades they will be just as close to me after death, as I hope that my spirit will linger among them and always go with them. Let them be hard, but never unjust, above all let them never allow fear to influence their actions, and set the honour of the nation above everything in the world. Finally, let them be conscious of the fact that our task, that of continuing the building of a National Socialist State, represents the work of the coming centuries, which places every single person under an obligation always to serve the common interest and to subordinate his own advantage to this end. I demand of all Germans, all National Socialists, men, women, and all the men of the Armed Forces, that they be faithful and obedient unto death to the new government and its President.

Above all I charge the leaders of the nation and those under them to scrupulous observance of the laws of race and to merciless opposition to the universal poisoner of all peoples, international Jewry.

Given in Berlin, this 29th day of April 1945. 4:00 A.M.

Written by [user id=31891] on 26.05.2008 at 17:51

ur answers were true. but some.
why do u think if israel kills its diffence and if palestinians kill its terror.

and about hitler read bellow:

taken from: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/My_Political_Testament
...

Given in Berlin, this 29th day of April 1945. 4:00 A.M.

He thought of himself being God!?!
About Israel and Palestine.
You know of the wall that Israel build? (of course you have)
I think this wall does a lot of harm, especially to the palestines, as their lands are parted and they are seperated from their family and work. But, since the wall has been finished the number of suicidebombs has been lowered with, I believe it was, 90%. That is the goal that Israel wants to reach. The war of the Palestines is often not to the Israelian army, but to the Israelian people. To the little children that play on the streets, to the mothers that go to the market to buy food for their children. They need to be defended. On the other hand, with the military actions of the Israelian army there are too many innocent victims (1 is too many already for me, but in this matter I mean also that I think that there is no need for so many victims), which is a problem also. If they would live in peace...
I keep dreaming, every day, every night. I hope, that one day there will be peace there also.

Written by [user id=30512] on 27.05.2008 at 21:36

Written by [user id=31891] on 26.05.2008 at 17:51

ur answers were true. but some.
why do u think if israel kills its diffence and if palestinians kill its terror.

and about hitler read bellow:

taken from: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/My_Political_Testament
...

Given in Berlin, this 29th day of April 1945. 4:00 A.M.

He thought of himself being God!?!
About Israel and Palestine.
You know of the wall that Israel build? (of course you have)
I think this wall does a lot of harm, especially to the palestines, as their lands are parted and they are seperated from their family and work. But, since the wall has been finished the number of suicidebombs has been lowered with, I believe it was, 90%. That is the goal that Israel wants to reach. The war of the Palestines is often not to the Israelian army, but to the Israelian people. To the little children that play on the streets, to the mothers that go to the market to buy food for their children. They need to be defended. On the other hand, with the military actions of the Israelian army there are too many innocent victims (1 is too many already for me, but in this matter I mean also that I think that there is no need for so many victims), which is a problem also. If they would live in peace...
I keep dreaming, every day, every night. I hope, that one day there will be peace there also.

dear Evert, i accept ur words i know that some palestinians r terrorists but it doesnt mean that all of them r.
but plz for god's sake dont believe just in ur media! in my country they dont show us that arabs kill jewish ppl and kids. but everyday,pay attention Eyryday,they show us some arab kids and ppl killed, in streets,houses..etc. but it doesnt mean that they dont kill jews, i understand it! but u westeren ppl think that what ur media shows, its all the truth. suicide bombs r against military not simple ppl! u know urself that jews use tanks-copters-etc. what arabs have? how they can deffence ?i spoke to a lot of arabs who lives in israel they say that they tread they like shit! so i dont know what u mean about terorrism!
Wall is a Fascism item not? is word blind ! there r a lot of laws about jews,nazism,fascism in europe but funny thing is that u try to say that u dont have to say anythin about holocaust or they just try to solve jews problems cause they have money? or cause half of American economy is theirs? i dont know how they could say that isarel is theirs ! their population is so less than muslems! i cand find any other country in the world which built lke israel can u? less ppl have the most territory ! which wasnt their before ! FORCE
everythin is clear. they r obsessive cause of anti-jewish thoughts and ppl.the most of anti-jewish ppl r christian! cause of Christ (look at Passion Of Christ movie and look how they battled against it-then theyve made "Davinci Code" against that move, which is completely mess-i have to say that im not religious but i respect Christ cause he was the lover of the peace and he was symbol of resist when jews did those things to him!) . anyway im not in anger with jewism. im not in anger with no one.im in anger with lies,dicrimination,war etc ...... .

in the end i have question that if u were in palestin and was a muslem,what would u do?

If I would have been a muslim, there would be 2 possibilities:
1. I would kill myself
2. I would convert to christianity...
Please, don't take this too seriously.

I did not say that all palestines are terrorists by the way, I only said that the Palestines war against the Israelian people. This is true, as little children already throw stones to Israelians. And, with their votes you see that most support war anyway, if not than Hamas would not have won by such large numbers (Not that Fatah is not a terrorist organisation).
The Jews might be a minority in Israel, but the Israelies are not. The faith is not the important matter when it comes to citizenship. The muslims are Israelian too. And it is not true that the Jews where not living in Palestine before, but taht the arabs where. Many Palestinians are from Egypt origin for example (Yasser Arafat is a famous example) that went to Palestine since they where not welcome anymore in their own country and where looking for the economic growth after the arival of the jews, that made the economie in Palestine grow for the first time in decennia. They came from just before the second worldwar to a little time after it. Around 1900 the Jews where already a long time steady at 10% of the population. But in 1936 it was 30%, mostly because of the nearing worldwar. During the worldwar and shortly after the Jews became a majority. Today it is so that the arab population is growing simply because they get more children. It is ok for them to get more children, but it should not be used as a political action.
(source: http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch17jeru.html)
And your question about how Palestines can defend themselves:
Hamas has got Qassams, Islamic Jihad has got Al Quds and there are many other kind of weapons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_domestic_weapons_production
What other do they use? Handgrenades, kalashnikovs and other handweapons, they use suicidebombers, sometimes even mentally handicapped people with bombs that are detonated from a distance. And these weapons are used moslty to kill normal people, and not soldiers. I do not want to defend all that Israel does. There is enough to critisize them. But I will not defend terrorists either! I don't care how many of the Palestines are terrorist. It doesn't matter. But everyone who kills innocent people and lays bombs is a terrorist, it doesn't matter if it is a Jew or a Palestine.

Don't you know that Israel is the land in the middle east with the highest level of human rights? It may not be good how they try to defend themselves against terrorist, I don't ask of you to agree with that, but at least, dare to compare the situation in Israel with that in Iran. http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran
Compare it to Saudi Arabia, to Iraq, to Egypt.

Quote:
fact is that religion IS a creation of man, and I think that nobody can deny the major role played by it in lots of past conflicts

True I Agree

Quote:

Written by Nighthowls on 29.05.2008 at 21:44

fact is that religion IS a creation of man, and I think that nobody can deny the major role played by it in lots of past conflicts

True I Agree

Do we know for shure that religion was made by men?

Written by [user id=31891] on 30.05.2008 at 10:11

ur last post was full off wrong information and impolite. i dont have nothin to answer,better to say that i dont like. this finished for me.

dont be a stock mind. and not other kind of Nazi.

jews hate christians,muslems and all so why they dont have to hate them

What did I say wrong then?
And how can you even assume that jews hate christians and muslims? I am a christian and I have Jewish friends? I really can't follow you now...

Written by [user id=30512] on 30.05.2008 at 10:25

Written by [user id=31891] on 30.05.2008 at 10:11

ur last post was full off wrong information and impolite. i dont have nothin to answer,better to say that i dont like. this finished for me.

dont be a stock mind. and not other kind of Nazi.

jews hate christians,muslems and all so why they dont have to hate them

What did I say wrong then?
And how can you even assume that jews hate christians and muslims? I am a christian and I have Jewish friends? I really can't follow you now...

if i have to be honest ive wrote 5 or 6 answers for u and deleted them cause i was so sad of ur Fascist post!
and if u think they r not ur enemy plz see the "Davinci Code"or "Passion of Christ" ,i didnt want to write somthin like that but when u r talkin funny and wrong about facts what can i say!? i dont have problem with jews. i have jew friend in here, but they hate Israel's goverment and u there say that Israel is good or ...
i had some jew friends which were goin to USA now but never wanted to go to Israel. i have seen a lot of Rabbi's in our TV which rnt from Iran and they dont like Israel, i have seen some jews which they were in usa and said in english! that they dont like Israel. so how can u say support them? all ur countries doesnt have INDEPENDENCE of THOUGHTG ! all u support jews why no noe of u support arabs of palestin ? what kind of justice is that? in my opinion who thinks palestinians doesnt have due r terorrists! its so easy to support rich jews. which have half money of all usa or i can say all word's. DONT GET ME WRONG. i dont have nothin to say about ZIONISM again and i love jews as i love others. but know this ISRAEL is based by ZIonism.

PS:im really sick of this argument and i think we are out of topic so im out of this.

Written by [user id=31891] on 30.05.2008 at 10:41

and if u think they r not ur enemy plz see the "Davinci Code"or "Passion of Christ"

Fail to see how two movies show that Jews are the enemies of Christians. This not only seems to show little understanding of the content of those films, but also the nature of Christians being "adopted Jews".

First, with the Davinci Code, that is a fictitious story. It is a movie based upon airport literature, nothing more than an imaginative thrill ride. I find more spiritual, political and religious truth in Star Wars than in Dan Brown.

Second, The Passion of the Christ is the portrayal of the last hours of the life of Jesus. Even if Mel Gibson seems to be a little unstable and tends to make anti-Semitic remarks, remember, Mel is not the president of Christianity! This notion that "Jews killed Jesus" is pretty ridiculous. It was the Romans, not the Jews who tried and executed Jesus. It was the Jewish high priests who wanted him dead, but they lacked the power to do it.

Jesus was Jewish. His original followers were all Jewish. Most of the early Church was Jewish. The New Testament even talks about how Christians may not be Israelites by birth, but are adopted into the Nation.

Written by [user id=30512] on 29.05.2008 at 14:03

I did not say that all palestines are terrorists by the way, I only said that the Palestines war against the Israelian people. This is true, as little children already throw stones to Israelians. And, with their votes you see that most support war anyway, if not than Hamas would not have won by such large numbers (Not that Fatah is not a terrorist organisation).
The Jews might be a minority in Israel, but the Israelies are not. The faith is not the important matter when it comes to citizenship. The muslims are Israelian too. And it is not true that the Jews where not living in Palestine before, but taht the arabs where. Many Palestinians are from Egypt origin for example (Yasser Arafat is a famous example) that went to Palestine since they where not welcome anymore in their own country and where looking for the economic growth after the arival of the jews, that made the economie in Palestine grow for the first time in decennia. They came from just before the second worldwar to a little time after it. Around 1900 the Jews where already a long time steady at 10% of the population. But in 1936 it was 30%, mostly because of the nearing worldwar. During the worldwar and shortly after the Jews became a majority. Today it is so that the arab population is growing simply because they get more children. It is ok for them to get more children, but it should not be used as a political action.
(source: http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch17jeru.html)
And your question about how Palestines can defend themselves:
Hamas has got Qassams, Islamic Jihad has got Al Quds and there are many other kind of weapons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_domestic_weapons_production
What other do they use? Handgrenades, kalashnikovs and other handweapons, they use suicidebombers, sometimes even mentally handicapped people with bombs that are detonated from a distance. And these weapons are used moslty to kill normal people, and not soldiers. I do not want to defend all that Israel does. There is enough to critisize them. But I will not defend terrorists either! I don't care how many of the Palestines are terrorist. It doesn't matter. But everyone who kills innocent people and lays bombs is a terrorist, it doesn't matter if it is a Jew or a Palestine.

Don't you know that Israel is the land in the middle east with the highest level of human rights? It may not be good how they try to defend themselves against terrorist, I don't ask of you to agree with that, but at least, dare to compare the situation in Israel with that in Iran. http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran
Compare it to Saudi Arabia, to Iraq, to Egypt.

I am surely not for all of the things that Hamas does,but I understand why most palestinians voted for them,and it is ,by the way, the same reason why palestinians started their second Intifadha,it's because they got sick of manipulating,endless and unequal nogaciations,negociations,since 1970,have brought absolutely nothing to palestinians,all that time,there was no hostile action from the palestinians,and apparently no hostile action from israel,but what was happening,was that the negociations ceiling was shrinking for the palestinians,and on the field,constructins in the west bank kept growing,eating the palestinian land,it was pointless,all these circumstances made the average palestinian chose to reclaim their rights,the essentials matters have presented no advance,this why,mouvements of armed struggle became very popular,their logo is"what was taken by force can only be brought back by force".
Jews were never a majority in the land of palestine in the last century,because if ity was the case,they would have not uprooted 6 million palestinian out of their land because they feared that demography is overwhelming in the side of poalestinians,jews started to flow to palestine a short time before the creation of their state,based on the british promise.
You know that when the second Intifadha started in 2000,it was a popular mouvement,neither Hamas nor Fatah did have any kind of rockets,and for more than a year,it kept that way,unarmed people throwing stones at soldiers,palestinian were killed everyday,and rarely we heard that an israeli soldier got injured,it did not make sense at all,how could that situation continue??Palestinian organizations decided then,to create new ways to hurt the most israelis possible,suicide bombings,local rockets..I do wish that palestinian organizations try to concentrate more on fighting soldiers,and follow the footsteps of Hizbullah,but I think that the reason why they actually can't do like Hizbullah,because they don't have thhe sufficent strength and support.
Human rights,we do not deny that,so is the case in other countries of the region,Lebanon,Turkey,UAE,Qatar,Bahrein.. it is not actually a 'wonder' that israel achieved.
I do 'dream' about peace,but If anyone claims that he truly wants peace,he should that any peace should be fair,palestinians will never give up their essential rights no matter how old the case gets or how awful their conditions are.

Written by Dane Train on 30.05.2008 at 13:49

Written by [user id=31891] on 30.05.2008 at 10:41

and if u think they r not ur enemy plz see the "Davinci Code"or "Passion of Christ"

Fail to see how two movies show that Jews are the enemies of Christians. This not only seems to show little understanding of the content of those films, but also the nature of Christians being "adopted Jews".

First, with the Davinci Code, that is a fictitious story. It is a movie based upon airport literature, nothing more than an imaginative thrill ride. I find more spiritual, political and religious truth in Star Wars than in Dan Brown.

Second, The Passion of the Christ is the portrayal of the last hours of the life of Jesus. Even if Mel Gibson seems to be a little unstable and tends to make anti-Semitic remarks, remember, Mel is not the president of Christianity! This notion that "Jews killed Jesus" is pretty ridiculous. It was the Romans, not the Jews who tried and executed Jesus. It was the Jewish high priests who wanted him dead, but they lacked the power to do it.

Jesus was Jewish. His original followers were all Jewish. Most of the early Church was Jewish. The New Testament even talks about how Christians may not be Israelites by birth, but are adopted into the Nation.

and jews killed him too.and jews didnt and dont believe in christ too. i cant remember any other Prophet killed like this. Arabs wanted to kill muhammad in a night. they were very wild at those times but sure so better than jewish KILLERS OF HOLY CHRIST.

Written by [user id=31891] on 31.05.2008 at 11:48

and jews killed him too.and jews didnt and dont believe in christ too. i cant remember any other Prophet killed like this. Arabs wanted to kill muhammad in a night. they were very wild at those times but sure so better than jewish KILLERS OF HOLY CHRIST.

That statement does not make much sense at all. First you are saying that the Jews killed Jesus. That is a false statement right there, since I have already explained that it was the Romans who executed Jesus. It was the Pharisees who wanted to execute Jesus, but they did not have the authority to do so.

What is really confusing about your post is you are saying that the Jews don't believe in Christ yet they killed Him. How can you kill someone who you don't believe existed? I think you might be mixing up the terminology of 'belief' and 'faith'. These are two different words with different meanings. Both Jews and Muslims believe that Jesus was a real man; they don't have believe in His divinity thus they have no faith in him. There are even plenty of atheists who believe in Jesus.

My advise for you is to calm down with your posts. Take some time to think about what you are writing and attempt not to post in such an aggressive and negative manner.

Written by Dane Train on 31.05.2008 at 15:38

Written by [user id=31891] on 31.05.2008 at 11:48

and jews killed him too.and jews didnt and dont believe in christ too. i cant remember any other Prophet killed like this. Arabs wanted to kill muhammad in a night. they were very wild at those times but sure so better than jewish KILLERS OF HOLY CHRIST.

That statement does not make much sense at all. First you are saying that the Jews killed Jesus. That is a false statement right there, since I have already explained that it was the Romans who executed Jesus. It was the Pharisees who wanted to execute Jesus, but they did not have the authority to do so.

What is really confusing about your post is you are saying that the Jews don't believe in Christ yet they killed Him. How can you kill someone who you don't believe existed? I think you might be mixing up the terminology of 'belief' and 'faith'. These are two different words with different meanings. Both Jews and Muslims believe that Jesus was a real man; they don't have believe in His divinity thus they have no faith in him. There are even plenty of atheists who believe in Jesus.

My advise for you is to calm down with your posts. Take some time to think about what you are writing and attempt not to post in such an aggressive and negative manner.

i dont care what happened ! i know the truth myself and im really sick of this thread ok? im the loser here im surender ! but one think i hate my goverment cause of their thoughts, but i congratulate my gover cause of their independence , we dont need to support power wolves. i dont believe in other side , but i believe nature will take effect.

Written by Dane Train on 30.05.2008 at 13:49

Fail to see how two movies show that Jews are the enemies of Christians. This not only seems to show little understanding of the content of those films, but also the nature of Christians being "adopted Jews".

First, with the Davinci Code, that is a fictitious story. It is a movie based upon airport literature, nothing more than an imaginative thrill ride. I find more spiritual, political and religious truth in Star Wars than in Dan Brown.

Second, The Passion of the Christ is the portrayal of the last hours of the life of Jesus. Even if Mel Gibson seems to be a little unstable and tends to make anti-Semitic remarks, remember, Mel is not the president of Christianity! This notion that "Jews killed Jesus" is pretty ridiculous. It was the Romans, not the Jews who tried and executed Jesus. It was the Jewish high priests who wanted him dead, but they lacked the power to do it.

Jesus was Jewish. His original followers were all Jewish. Most of the early Church was Jewish. The New Testament even talks about how Christians may not be Israelites by birth, but are adopted into the Nation.

Correct if I am wrong,it was a commun belief among christians that jews 'killed' Jesus Christ until a very late time,the Vatican announced in 1965 that the jews could not be held responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus,why did it take so long?? On what did christians base the thought of the responsability of the jews in the first place?is there any quotes from the Bible?I have more questions about what you just said but I think I will leave them the Christianity thread.

Written by Black Winter on 31.05.2008 at 16:24

Written by Dane Train on 30.05.2008 at 13:49

Fail to see how two movies show that Jews are the enemies of Christians. This not only seems to show little understanding of the content of those films, but also the nature of Christians being "adopted Jews".

First, with the Davinci Code, that is a fictitious story. It is a movie based upon airport literature, nothing more than an imaginative thrill ride. I find more spiritual, political and religious truth in Star Wars than in Dan Brown.

Second, The Passion of the Christ is the portrayal of the last hours of the life of Jesus. Even if Mel Gibson seems to be a little unstable and tends to make anti-Semitic remarks, remember, Mel is not the president of Christianity! This notion that "Jews killed Jesus" is pretty ridiculous. It was the Romans, not the Jews who tried and executed Jesus. It was the Jewish high priests who wanted him dead, but they lacked the power to do it.

Jesus was Jewish. His original followers were all Jewish. Most of the early Church was Jewish. The New Testament even talks about how Christians may not be Israelites by birth, but are adopted into the Nation.

Correct if I am wrong,it was a commun belief among christians that jews 'killed' Jesus Christ until a very late time,the Vatican announced in 1965 that the jews could not be held responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus,why did it take so long?? On what did christians base the thought of the responsability of the jews in the first place?is there any quotes from the Bible?I have more questions about what you just said but I think I will leave them the Christianity thread.

Well, there have long been two groups in christianity. There have been people calling themselves christians that said that the Jews had to be taken responsible for the death of Christ (in which the prophecy was fullfilled) and there was a group for whom it wasn't really an issue. They didn't feel less guilty than the Jews would be, so they didn't care about that. But neither did they stand up strongly against antisemitism. Of course there have been people that stood strong against antisemitism, but it was not an official church policy as it was back in 1965, when it was the time to stand up against antisemitism strongly. As it should have been done before.

Any religion(or common belief) can be used for mass manipulation.Nazis used this very succesfuly ,
and do not forget the Islamic terrorists today.

finally i remembered somthin that i wanted to say it here. look at Iran's Flag it have Allah at middle of it look at Soudi Arabia's flag it has la elaha elallah at middle and ... Religious countries uses these things at their flag but not Laic ones.

so i dont know how Israel is a Laic country with David's Star in the middle of their flag. its so bad that someone tries to say meaningles words to proove his/her words even if its Israel's Headquarter.
(i didnt talk about Emblem which is another Religious symbol too!)

Written by [user id=31891] on 09.06.2008 at 16:39

finally i remembered somthin that i wanted to say it here. look at Iran's Flag it have Allah at middle of it look at Soudi Arabia's flag it has la elaha elallah at middle and ... Religious countries uses these things at their flag but not Laic ones.

so i dont know how Israel is a Laic country with David's Star in the middle of their flag. its so bad that someone tries to say meaningles words to proove his/her words even if its Israel's Headquarter.
(i didnt talk about Emblem which is another Religious symbol too!)

Israel is a religious country and don't let anyone tell you it isn't, not only the david's star in the flag, but the decluration of independence clearly state that this would be a Jewish country and will be open to any Jew who wishes to imegrate to it, everything here is about religion, you must learn bible and pass the final test if you want a diploma, you cannot merry in civil marriage, there are offices in the government specificly for religion, I am an atheist, and the moment someone here knows it they start to look at me funny and odd, this place is built on religion...

Written by Berfones on 10.06.2008 at 17:37

Written by [user id=31891] on 09.06.2008 at 16:39

finally i remembered somthin that i wanted to say it here. look at Iran's Flag it have Allah at middle of it look at Soudi Arabia's flag it has la elaha elallah at middle and ... Religious countries uses these things at their flag but not Laic ones.

so i dont know how Israel is a Laic country with David's Star in the middle of their flag. its so bad that someone tries to say meaningles words to proove his/her words even if its Israel's Headquarter.
(i didnt talk about Emblem which is another Religious symbol too!)

Israel is a religious country and don't let anyone tell you it isn't, not only the david's star in the flag, but the decluration of independence clearly state that this would be a Jewish country and will be open to any Jew who wishes to imegrate to it, everything here is about religion, you must learn bible and pass the final test if you want a diploma, you cannot merry in civil marriage, there are offices in the government specificly for religion, I am an atheist, and the moment someone here knows it they start to look at me funny and odd, this place is built on religion...

thanks for information.

@Aei Ontos PLZ READ,KNOW,BE SURE then start to teach to others.

Written by [user id=31891] on 10.06.2008 at 18:02

Written by Berfones on 10.06.2008 at 17:37

Written by [user id=31891] on 09.06.2008 at 16:39

finally i remembered somthin that i wanted to say it here. look at Iran's Flag it have Allah at middle of it look at Soudi Arabia's flag it has la elaha elallah at middle and ... Religious countries uses these things at their flag but not Laic ones.

so i dont know how Israel is a Laic country with David's Star in the middle of their flag. its so bad that someone tries to say meaningles words to proove his/her words even if its Israel's Headquarter.
(i didnt talk about Emblem which is another Religious symbol too!)

Israel is a religious country and don't let anyone tell you it isn't, not only the david's star in the flag, but the decluration of independence clearly state that this would be a Jewish country and will be open to any Jew who wishes to imegrate to it, everything here is about religion, you must learn bible and pass the final test if you want a diploma, you cannot merry in civil marriage, there are offices in the government specificly for religion, I am an atheist, and the moment someone here knows it they start to look at me funny and odd, this place is built on religion...

thanks for information.

@Aei Ontos PLZ READ,KNOW,BE SURE then start to teach to others.

Read it. Well, if an Israeli says it it must be true.

most of the times religion is used to manipulate the minds of the people. So many of the books we read tend to tell us that religion was the main cause, sometimes it is, but most of the times there is always someone behind it all, a real reason to start a war. So I believe the theory is just half-true.

Written by juliocb on 04.10.2008 at 21:13

most of the times religion is used to manipulate the minds of the people. So many of the books we read tend to tell us that religion was the main cause, sometimes it is, but most of the times there is always someone behind it all, a real reason to start a war. So I believe the theory is just half-true.

Yeah I know what you mean. A Christian (Methodist) friend of mine who I work with, we conversate about spirituality all the time. She pointed that same thing out to me the other day, she was saying that Religion is meant to bring about positive change in ones life, but through greed and selfishness, people use it as a means of causing harm to others.

religion does cause war, imo, but it's not the only cause of war. Imho, war is caused by the wants and needs of man, and as long as there is life there will be war. Nature's design is success by killing.

Is it just me, or does the title of this thread sound absolutely ridiculous? If it were "Religion causes war", it wouldn't be so bad (although not much better), but adding "theory" before it makes it sound like some contentless pretentious rubbish. How can someone speak about a theory when we have only one completely shallow "causal" "connection". And I am not saying that religion doesn't cause war, there's just no point of arguing.
I mean, with completely vague questions you get completely vague answers, that hardly.

I'm sorry, I'm just being grumpy tonight

one of the reasons Man created religion and maintained it over time was to have a subterfuge to depreciate others(enemies & dangers) and to gain confidence by the unity it offered the nation and also to have an ultimate reason to rule over masses. see, it has alot in common with war...it's not a simple causation, maybe a mutual effect, maybe a hand in hand relation.
but indeed more or less it has always been an excuse to start a war, from ancient wars to modern ones.