My fav sound is something that is raw but still able to hear what is going on, maybe a better term is low-fi? Lol. I really like Wrest's stuff, Leviathan, Lurker Of Chalice etc, I like that kind of sound still farily low-fi but you can hear whats going on and it sets an atmosphere. But in saying that I also enjoy clean and crisp production, all in all its a fairly mixed bag for me in terms of what I like.

Written by Lord_Regnier on 03.04.2009 at 02:40

Written by Black_Sheep on 02.04.2009 at 18:04

I chose "Symphonic & melodic clean" since i really like to hear all the instruments properly. Also, shitty & cheap (or raw, as somepeople call it) sound is not in any way "true" "extreme" or great. It's just shitty, and it ruins the songs. I know many BM bands that suck big time, and only because they have this extra-shitty sound and production on their albums.

I know well you don't like raw sound in general, my friend. However, you miss a detail here. Raw doesn't equal shitty or cheap (at least not necessarily). I know bands that sound raw but you can hear instruments clearly, if you're a bit used to raw production.
And I know bands who have very clear production but sound awful.
You can't establish a direct relation between rawness and shittiness.

You seem to have the same problem with raw sound I have with Death Metal Growls: for you, raw sound is almost never enjoyable. Like DM growls are almost never enjoyable for me. Deep growls are just shitty, utterly boring to my ears. Karl Willets (Bolt Thrower) is probably the only exception here: I can't explain why but I really like his vocals, even though I always hated DM growls. I don't think we have to justify ourselves for it. It's a matter of taste, that's all. We have to listen to what we enjoy.

I like some raw BM, there's a fine line between raw and too raw/shitty. For example the album "minas morgul" or "Stronghold" by Summoning, the sound is quite raw isn't it? and i like it. Of course, my opinion is that if the sound and production would be better, the album would be much better as well.

Written by Lord_Regnier on 03.04.2009 at 02:40

Written by Black_Sheep on 02.04.2009 at 18:04

I chose "Symphonic & melodic clean" since i really like to hear all the instruments properly. Also, shitty & cheap (or raw, as somepeople call it) sound is not in any way "true" "extreme" or great. It's just shitty, and it ruins the songs. I know many BM bands that suck big time, and only because they have this extra-shitty sound and production on their albums.

I know well you don't like raw sound in general, my friend. However, you miss a detail here. Raw doesn't equal shitty or cheap (at least not necessarily). I know bands that sound raw but you can hear instruments clearly, if you're a bit used to raw production.
And I know bands who have very clear production but sound awful.
You can't establish a direct relation between rawness and shittiness.

You seem to have the same problem with raw sound I have with Death Metal Growls: for you, raw sound is almost never enjoyable. Like DM growls are almost never enjoyable for me. Deep growls are just shitty, utterly boring to my ears. Karl Willets (Bolt Thrower) is probably the only exception here: I can't explain why but I really like his vocals, even though I always hated DM growls. I don't think we have to justify ourselves for it. It's a matter of taste, that's all. We have to listen to what we enjoy.

I like some raw BM, there's a fine line between raw and too raw/shitty. For example the album "minas morgul" or "Stronghold" by Summoning, the sound is quite raw isn't it? and i like it. Of course, my opinion is that if the sound and production would be better, the album would be much better as well.

@Black_Sheep: Ok. I understand better now. But you still dislike "Lugburz", isn't it? Imo, "Lugburz" is not shitty but it's at the limit between raw and shitty. If it would be a bit cheaper than that, it would sound shitty.

Personally, I have no problem with raw sound. However, I have a problem with bands that use a shitty sound to pathetically try to hide their abysmal mediocrity. You know, some of those bands that barely sold a few albums during their career, supposedly because they are a 'cult' band but, when you hear them, you know well why they never sold many albums (the reason being only ignorant people with no technical knowledge about metal or weirdos who always prefer fucked up music will praise such crap).

@Lord: i find "Lugburz" "a bit shitty". I haven't really listened the album a lot, but from what i've heard it's not my cup of tea. Otherwise Summoning is an awesome band.


And i totally agree with you about bands that use "raw" sound to hide their crappy songwriting etc.

Written by Black_Sheep on 03.04.2009 at 19:32


And i totally agree with you about bands that use "raw" sound to hide their crappy songwriting etc.

why? is it so difficult to write some good lyrics? its just a different way to see black metal

Vote for another combination, since I'm most interested in Industrial Black Metal. It's the best shape of Black Metal in my opinion..

Black metal is at its best when it is raw and dark and old school stuffs like De Mysterris Dom Sathanas,Aske,A Blaze In The Northern Sky and of course Drawing down The Moon:banger2:

I prefer melo/sympho bm by far.

sometimes pure bm is so "raw" it just sounds like mud.

I like either raw or clean sound quality as long as the music is good.

Raw sound quality is what put me off black metal in the first place and made me think I didn't like it. Now that I'm finding more black metal bands with clean production, I've been thoroughly enjoying it.

I've only been listening for a couple months but I do like the the folkier side, like Agalloch and older Woods Of Ypres. I also enjoy the classics like Transilvanian Hunger.

I voted for Other, despite the OP's bad grammar.

Written by Thrashette on 21.05.2012 at 15:47

Raw sound quality is what put me off black metal in the first place and made me think I didn't like it. Now that I'm finding more black metal bands with clean production, I've been thoroughly enjoying it.

how can clean production be enjoyed?

Written by theFIST on 21.05.2012 at 18:24

Written by Thrashette on 21.05.2012 at 15:47

Raw sound quality is what put me off black metal in the first place and made me think I didn't like it. Now that I'm finding more black metal bands with clean production, I've been thoroughly enjoying it.

how can clean production be enjoyed?

I would ask quite the opposite since raw production just annoys me and sounds messy to my ears. Clean production makes it easier to hear what's going on and notice the details with the music, so I can have more appreciation for it.

All black metal bands should sound like S.V.E.S.T

Now THAT is pure fucking black metal.

Written by Thrashette on 21.05.2012 at 19:30

Written by theFIST on 21.05.2012 at 18:24

Written by Thrashette on 21.05.2012 at 15:47

Raw sound quality is what put me off black metal in the first place and made me think I didn't like it. Now that I'm finding more black metal bands with clean production, I've been thoroughly enjoying it.

how can clean production be enjoyed?

I would ask quite the opposite since raw production just annoys me and sounds messy to my ears. Clean production makes it easier to hear what's going on and notice the details with the music, so I can have more appreciation for it.

clean production takes most of the energy of the music
for a learning disk of how to play songs the clean production making everything precisely noticeable it"d be good, but for listening i want a finished song complete with distortion, anger and a wall of sound feeling that doesn"t force all details on me but hides what i"m not concentrating on

Written by theFIST on 21.05.2012 at 20:40

clean production takes most of the energy of the music

On the contrary, murky production is like trying to walk through a mud puddle: It's difficult and gets annoying after a while. I've only found a few (maybe 3) bands where I actually find the murky production essential and mostly to cover up the terrible songwriting and one-trick music performance.

Written by theFIST on 21.05.2012 at 20:40

clean production takes most of the energy of the music
for a learning disk of how to play songs the clean production making everything precisely noticeable it"d be good, but for listening i want a finished song complete with distortion, anger and a wall of sound feeling that doesn"t force all details on me but hides what i"m not concentrating on

What Lit said
I can understand how raw production might be preferable for stuff like punk rock which is meant to be simple but angry and energetic. In the case of metal and most other genres, I feel that the music is too complex for raw production to give it justice, like the band worked so hard on something just to have it buried under distortion. There's also the other case where the raw production is meant to cover up bad/mediocre song-writing and playing ability. Ultimately, I just don't like how it sounds whether the music is actually good or not... But I guess it's part of the spirit and essence of traditional black metal? To each their own...

Written by Thrashette on 21.05.2012 at 23:02

Written by theFIST on 21.05.2012 at 20:40

clean production takes most of the energy of the music
for a learning disk of how to play songs the clean production making everything precisely noticeable it"d be good, but for listening i want a finished song complete with distortion, anger and a wall of sound feeling that doesn"t force all details on me but hides what i"m not concentrating on

What Lit said
I can understand how raw production might be preferable for stuff like punk rock which is meant to be simple but angry and energetic. In the case of metal and most other genres, I feel that the music is too complex for raw production to give it justice, like the band worked so hard on something just to have it buried under distortion. There's also the other case where the raw production is meant to cover up bad/mediocre song-writing and playing ability. Ultimately, I just don't like how it sounds whether the music is actually good or not... But I guess it's part of the spirit and essence of traditional black metal? To each their own...

Written by Guest on 21.05.2012 at 22:21

On the contrary, murky production is like trying to walk through a mud puddle: It's difficult and gets annoying after a while. I've only found a few (maybe 3) bands where I actually find the murky production essential and mostly to cover up the terrible songwriting and one-trick music performance.

i usually don"t support the murky bad recording raw either
usually i want highly distorted walls of sound that are still well planned and recorded, a somewhat clear, but not clean production
also, complex or at least noticably thought out songwriting is great, but it bothers me when the production just shows "look how great we can write and play, see: detail, detail, detail,...."
also, the bands work hard on something to not make it fully comprehensible long before the first song ends, so why destroy their works and force comprehensibility through clean production?

Written by theFIST on 21.05.2012 at 23:53

i usually don"t support the murky bad recording raw either
usually i want highly distorted walls of sound that are still well planned and recorded, a somewhat clear, but not clean production
also, complex or at least noticably thought out songwriting is great, but it bothers me when the production just shows "look how great we can write and play, see: detail, detail, detail,...."
also, the bands work hard on something to not make it fully comprehensible long before the first song ends, so why destroy their works and force comprehensibility through clean production?

I see no problem with bands opting for clean production to show off their talent. If they're that great and have the resources available, why shouldn't they do so? I'm pretty sure most great artists would like for their talents to be recognized and perfectly clear to their audience (except maybe the strictly underground bands that have no intention of gaining more publicity). Likewise if some sort of incomprehensibility is what they're aiming for then by all means raw distorted production is fine, just not what I would listen to...

Written by Thrashette on 22.05.2012 at 00:12

Written by theFIST on 21.05.2012 at 23:53

i usually don"t support the murky bad recording raw either
usually i want highly distorted walls of sound that are still well planned and recorded, a somewhat clear, but not clean production
also, complex or at least noticably thought out songwriting is great, but it bothers me when the production just shows "look how great we can write and play, see: detail, detail, detail,...."
also, the bands work hard on something to not make it fully comprehensible long before the first song ends, so why destroy their works and force comprehensibility through clean production?

I see no problem with bands opting for clean production to show off their talent. If they're that great and have the resources available, why shouldn't they do so? I'm pretty sure most great artists would like for their talents to be recognized and perfectly clear to their audience (except maybe the strictly underground bands that have no intention of gaining more publicity). Likewise if some sort of incomprehensibility is what they're aiming for then by all means raw distorted production is fine, just not what I would listen to...

no matter if they want it, it simply bothers me to get a song done by people just wanting to show off how great they are instead of a song that is a tight soundwall with all that talent hidden in it for careful listeners to find