Buy for
$4.14
(6 items)

Release date: 25 August 1988
Style: Heavy metal, Bay Area thrash metal

Rating:

8.8 | 2176 votes

Owners:

2734 have it
73 want it
6 trade it


01. Blackened
02. ...And Justice For All
03. Eye Of The Beholder
04. One
05. The Shortest Straw
06. Harvester Of Sorrow
07. The Frayed Ends Of Sanity
08. To Live Is To Die
09. Dyers Eve
10. The Prince [Japanese bonus]
11. One [live] [digital reissue bonus]
12. ...And Justice For All [live] [digital reissue bonus]

Top 20 albums of 1988: 11
Top 200 albums of all time: 101

Reviews (4)
Lyrics (9)


Additional info
Production

* Metallica; Flemming Rasmussen - producers
* Flemming Rasmussen - engineer
* Mike Clink - drum engineer on track 5 and 6
* Toby Wright - additional engineer
* Steve Thompson; Michael Barbiero - mixing
* George Cowan - assistant mixing engineer
* Bob Ludwig - audio mastering

* James Hetfield; Lars Ulrich - cover concept
* Stephen Gorman; Pushead - illustrations
* Ross Halfin - photography
* Reiner Design Consultants, Inc. - design, layout

The live bonus tracks were recorded live on August 29, 1989 at the Seattle Coliseum in Seattle, WA and mixed by Mike Gillies.

Guest review by
Joey Jo Jo

Rating:
5.0
Hmmm, so this is the last "true" Metallica classic? Let me start off by saying a lot of fans consider this to be their "progressive" album, while after hearing it through, the only thing I can point out that has "progressed" is the band's ability to bore the listener into a deep coma after a couple tracks.

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published 05.08.2005 | Comments (88)

Guest review by
Powerslave16

Rating:
9.0
When I came across Aguirre's review of Metallica's '...And Justice For All', I immediately spewed Coca-Cola everywhere and threatened the non-stickiness of my keyboard. I didn't see it coming, I guess. Aguirre is entitled to his opinion, but what follows is my review of Metallica's 'last great' and 'progressive' album.

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published 29.09.2007 | Comments (39)

Guest review by
!Mac!

Rating:
8.0
It can easily be said that music is a photo in time. A fragment in where society is once shot, forever leaving the remembrance of where and who we were. This translates directly and more so intently to an artist or band, and where they were in their lives and careers when a piece of work was released. For Metallica in 1988, two-years removed from a loss of a brother, a friend and a band mate, bassist Cliff Burton, they showed their scars in an album that I can only help but adore. "…And Justice For All" is a long, (65-minutes long, 10 less than the maximum) drawn out, epic, loud, angry, and emotionally charged record that sweeps its listeners up into its messages and endless musicianship.

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published 03.12.2008 | Comments (4)

Guest review by
Hermann Langke

Rating:
8.9
Metallica! Need we say anything more about this band? They are the biggest Heavy Metal band ever to have existed, sold more records than any other Metal band and have performed in almost all the countries on the planet. They are the fathers of Thrash Metal and are one of the most influential bands of all time. Most of you know a great deal about them so I won't be elaborating anymore.

Read more ››
published 04.07.2010 | Comments (24)

Found in 86 lists
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Comments

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Comments: 107  
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Pauleto - 20.03.2010 at 12:38  
  After album "Master of Puppets" is that a best album from Metallica, that the when issued.
Jay-WalKeR - 19.06.2010 at 17:16  
Rating: 10 This album is very memorable for me.
wormdrink414 - 05.07.2010 at 11:45  
Rating: 7 Empty is the first word that comes to my mind when And Justice is brought up or put on.
Marcel Hubregtse - 05.07.2010 at 15:33  
Rating: 7
Written by wormdrink414 on 05.07.2010 at 11:45

Empty is the first word that comes to my mind when And Justice is brought up or put on.


cjguitar40 - 10.07.2010 at 07:35  
  Decent album here , but WTF kind of heavy metal band would deliberately mix down the bass guitar to almost ZILCH? Sounded pretty odd even back then to my young ears. I'd like to see a proper re-mastering of this record, where you can actually HEAR THE NEW BASSIST!!!!
Anyhow I actually really like the songwriting on "Justice"......
Aetherius - 13.08.2010 at 09:13  
Rating: 10 A truly great album, Last of Metallica as far as im concerned. But i agree with cjguitar40 i too wish the bass were louder, i bet it would be a great experience to hear it that way.
The Shape 1973 - 13.08.2010 at 10:40  
Rating: 7
Written by Aetherius on 13.08.2010 at 09:13

A truly great album, Last of Metallica as far as im concerned. But i agree with cjguitar40 i too wish the bass were louder, i bet it would be a great experience to hear it that way.

An album absolutely crying out to be remixed/remastered. Put the bass back in. Did they leave it out as a tribute to Cliff or what?
Angelic Storm - 13.08.2010 at 22:11  
Rating: 9
Written by The Shape 1973 on 13.08.2010 at 10:40
An album absolutely crying out to be remixed/remastered. Put the bass back in. Did they leave it out as a tribute to Cliff or what?


Agreed. It is in terrible need of remixing. The three surviving members were well known for giving Jason a very hard time in the initial years after Cliff's death. So its definitely possible that he was deliberately mixed out in a mean spirited way by James and Lars. Then again, the bass has never been very audible in Metallica albums, aside from the ones produced by Bob Rock. lol

IMO Justice is the last great album Metallica made. Only the bad production lets it down. Its also the first Metallica album I heard. xD
Vikcen - 14.08.2010 at 05:48  
Rating: 10 Remix? No, please. Metallica is one of the few old bands that don't need to remaster their early albums. If you ask me for:

- Blind Guardian, yes, until "Somewhere Far Beyond" including this.

- Megadeth, yes, until "Countdown To Extinction" including this. (By the way, the Megadeth remasters are outstanding)

- Sepultura, yes, until "Arise" including this (here the same, the remasters are exceptional).

- Testament, yes, until "Low" without including this (here there isn't remasters).

Anyway, the sound of a particular album, is a matter of tastes, don't forget.
RavenKing - 14.08.2010 at 07:14  
 
Written by Vikcen on 14.08.2010 at 05:48


- Blind Guardian, yes, until "Somewhere Far Beyond" including this.



I disagree. The sound in the old recordings is better than on the remasters because they removed too much of the echo when they remastered the albums.

Imo, it's the opposite that should be made for metal in general. The old albums don't need to get more polished production. It's the new albums that need to sound more like older metal. Modern productions make metal sound empty and dull. Just compare the new Slayer album to their old albums (until "Hell Awaits") for an eloquent example.
The songs themselves are not bad but the production completely destroys the album.
Angelic Storm - 14.08.2010 at 07:56  
Rating: 9 @Vikcen: I think the Megadeth remasters were in general, awful. Especially the ones for "Peace Sells..." and "Rust In Peace". My general rule is, if it isn't broke, dont try and fix it. And those albums were great as is. Even SFSGSW, which had an original production that was quite poor, was robbed of a bit of it's charm in the remaster. The only Testament albums Id say need remixing are "Souls Of Black" and "The New Order". Especially the former. BG and Sepultura: Definitely not.

@Hidden_Dictator: Removing the echo, is one of the things I hate most in remastered versions of albums. The Megadeth remasters are a very good (or a horrendous one lol) example of this. Most of the songs with echoy endings were suddenly made to come to a complete stop on the last note. Also, the guitar sound becomes very dry, robbing certain songs of a lot of their charm. It gives the songs a very artificial sound, and I don't like it.

There are rare ocassions like with AJFA, were I think the album really needs remixing, but generally speaking, I dont really like the idea of remixing/remastering an album. It kills the album's personality, more often than not.
RavenKing - 14.08.2010 at 08:43  
 
Written by Angelic Storm on 14.08.2010 at 07:56

@Hidden_Dictator: Removing the echo, is one of the things I hate most in remastered versions of albums. The Megadeth remasters are a very good (or a horrendous one lol) example of this. Most of the songs with echoy endings were suddenly made to come to a complete stop on the last note. Also, the guitar sound becomes very dry, robbing certain songs of a lot of their charm. It gives the songs a very artificial sound, and I don't like it.

There are rare ocassions like with AJFA, were I think the album really needs remixing, but generally speaking, I dont really like the idea of remixing/remastering an album. It kills the album's personality, more often than not.



Totally agreed. Removing the echo makes albums sound lifeless and artificial, imo. We so often have to deal with lack of reverberation on new albums, at least leave the old albums as they are, for Christ's sake.

For me, an album is a piece of art and fine as it is. I see changing the sound as desecration of the original. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Remixing/remastering never add, it only removes, Which is a pity.
Angelic Storm - 14.08.2010 at 10:21  
Rating: 9
Written by RavenKing on 14.08.2010 at 08:43
Totally agreed. Removing the echo makes albums sound lifeless and artificial, imo. We so often have to deal with lack of reverberation on new albums, at least leave the old albums as they are, for Christ's sake.

For me, an album is a piece of art and fine as it is. I see changing the sound as desecration of the original. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Remixing/remastering never add, it only removes, Which is a pity.


Yep, lack of reverberation is a major problem with a lot of modern production. You mentioned Slayer's latest, which is a very good example. That album would sound so much better without the dry/compressed production. A lot of the songs are actually good, but they are stifled by the production, which is a shame. Remastering for its own sake, is a desecration of the original. Aside from isolated cases where an album actually needs remixing/remastering, its almost always a bad move.

That's a very good point. The whole point of remixing/remastering, is to add to the sound. The problem is, lots of albums are being remastered that dont need to be. And even some of the one's that do, remove too much. I mentioned SFSGSW earlier. The original of that didnt have very good production, but in a way that helped it, because it had a very eerie atmosphere. Now, if that album had been remixed properly, the sound would have been improved, but with that eerie charm left intact. But, due to the removal of the echo, the one great thing about that album's sound was stripped away. It is a real shame that even in some cases where remastering could help, its done in a very lazy, unprofessional way.
Valentin B - 14.08.2010 at 10:42  
  Of all Metallica albums i think this is the one that grew on me the most over the years. the songs might be very long and drawn-out in some cases, but i lov'em, especially the title track.

i always think of the bullshit corruption and nepotism in Romania and feel like beating those people up with a baseball bat while that track is playing.

"i can't believe the things we say... i can't believe, i can't believe the price.. we pay!"
The Shape 1973 - 14.08.2010 at 12:32  
Rating: 7
Written by Angelic Storm on 13.08.2010 at 22:11

Written by The Shape 1973 on 13.08.2010 at 10:40
An album absolutely crying out to be remixed/remastered. Put the bass back in. Did they leave it out as a tribute to Cliff or what?


Agreed. It is in terrible need of remixing. The three surviving members were well known for giving Jason a very hard time in the initial years after Cliff's death. So its definitely possible that he was deliberately mixed out in mean spirited way by James and Lars. Then again, the bass has never been very audible in Metallica albums, aside from the ones produced by Bob Rock. lol

IMO Justice is the last great album Metallica made. Only the bad production lets it down. Its also the first Metallica album I heard. xD

The first one that I heard was the black album. It is still my favourite even though most Metallica fans would disagree. The production was better, James' singing was better and it had some really good tracks. They haven't done anything since that I have liked nearly as much.

...AJFA needs beefing up, it could have been a really powerful album, but it has just been left sounding scratchy and thin, a step down from the brilliant Master Of Puppets where you can hear the bass. I don't think the style of MOP is too far removed from the black album, the songs are quite similar and the guitars sound better.
Angelic Storm - 14.08.2010 at 14:59  
Rating: 9
Written by The Shape 1973 on 14.08.2010 at 12:32
The first one that I heard was the black album. It is still my favourite even though most Metallica fans would disagree. The production was better, James' singing was better and it had some really good tracks. They haven't done anything since that I have liked nearly as much.

...AJFA needs beefing up, it could have been a really powerful album, but it has just been left sounding scratchy and thin, a step down from the brilliant Master Of Puppets where you can hear the bass. I don't think the style of MOP is too far removed from the black album, the songs are quite similar and the guitars sound better.


I would disagree, but I do like the black album still. It has some really great songs on it. xD

"Beefing up" is the perfect term for what AJFA needs. The sound is very dry, and there's no 'oomph' to it. Having the bass clearly audible in the mix, black album style, would improve the album's sound a lot. Although its production isnt very good, the songs are still able to shine through it.
vezzy - 14.08.2010 at 15:13  
Rating: 7
Written by Angelic Storm on 14.08.2010 at 14:59
I would disagree, but I do like the black album still. It has some really great songs on it. xD

"Beefing up" is the perfect term for what AJFA needs. The sound is very dry, and there's no 'oomph' to it. Having the bass clearly audible in the mix, black album style, would improve the album's sound a lot. Although its production isnt very good, the songs are still able to shine through it.


YouTube has bass enhanced versions which basically do nothing but make the bass the lead guitar, but it's still good to get an idea of what the bass lines are.

Also, The Black Album having better production... I don't really know, maybe slightly more-so, but it's bad compared to RtL or MoP.
Perseverance - 14.08.2010 at 15:24  
  Best and only good Metallica album. BLack album, Master of Puppets, and Ride the Lightning all such shit. While they don't eat as much shit as St. Anger or Death magnetic they are still nothing in comparison to the shear magnitude that Justice for all has.
Vikcen - 15.08.2010 at 02:29  
Rating: 10 Always happens in these type of debates, as always i say: The sound of a particular album is a matter of tastes.

Written by Angelic Storm on 14.08.2010 at 07:56

@Vikcen: I think the Megadeth remasters were in general, awful. Especially the ones for "Peace Sells..." and "Rust In Peace". My general rule is, if it isn't broke, dont try and fix it. And those albums were great as is. Even SFSGSW, which had an original production that was quite poor, was robbed of a bit of it's charm in the remaster. The only Testament albums Id say need remixing are "Souls Of Black" and "The New Order". Especially the former. BG and Sepultura: Definitely not.


To begin, the sound of "And Justice For All" is better than "Rust In Peace" (not remastered) or any early album without remastering from Blind Guardian, Slayer, Sepultura or Testament. I don't like the album "Rust In Peace" without remastering, and neither"Countdown To Extinction" without remastering, both albums remastered gains a lot more. The same with Sepultura, i don't like "Beneath The Remains" and "Arise", but remastered yes, a lot more.

I agree with "Souls Of Black" and "The New Order" =). With Blind Guardian is another story, i have not entirely clear, the remasters i think that does not change much, i like both versions, maybe with Blind Guaridan i agre with you, don't need remaster.

Written by Angelic Storm on 14.08.2010 at 07:56


@Hidden_Dictator: Removing the echo, is one of the things I hate most in remastered versions of albums. The Megadeth remasters are a very good (or a horrendous one lol) example of this. Most of the songs with echoy endings were suddenly made to come to a complete stop on the last note. Also, the guitar sound becomes very dry, robbing certain songs of a lot of their charm. It gives the songs a very artificial sound, and I don't like it.

There are rare ocassions like with AJFA, were I think the album really needs remixing, but generally speaking, I dont really like the idea of remixing/remastering an album. It kills the album's personality, more often than not.


Charm, echo, dry, artificial... etc all this is a matter of tastes. Then for you, in your case, you can feel that they doesn't need remaster.

Then for you "And Justice for all" is a rare ocassion that needs remastering? and the albums cited not lol. Sorry, but i can't be agree with you. AJFA have better sound than the albums cited for example (without remastering of course ) as i have said before.


Written by Angelic Storm on 14.08.2010 at 07:56


but generally speaking, I dont really like the idea of remixing/remastering an album. It kills the album's personality, more often than not.


The same i could say about "And Justice For All".


Written by RavenKing on 14.08.2010 at 07:14


Imo, it's the opposite that should be made for metal in general. The old albums don't need to get more polished production. It's the new albums that need to sound more like older metal. Modern productions make metal sound empty and dull. Just compare the new Slayer album to their old albums (until "Hell Awaits") for an eloquent example.
The songs themselves are not bad but the production completely destroys the album.


Imo, I think the same about this, a matter of tastes. You feel that the old albums don't need to be changed, for you it's ok, for you are fine as they are. I prefer the sound of the new Slayer albums than the old, what's more, for me the best Slayer albums are the last two (Dave Lombardo, was the only one missing). In general i think i prefer modern sound in the Tharsh Metal, but no always, depends.




Ending, in conclusion, it is a matter of tastes, but when someone stars to question an album like "And Justice For All" for their sound, i have to debate .
RavenKing - 15.08.2010 at 03:05  
  @Vikcen: I totally respect your point of view on the matter. I just don't share it. I must say that as an old metalhead who's been listening to metal for over 25 years, I've been used to unpolished sound in the 80s and I really struggle with new albums nowadays because I find them overpolished in general.
For me, it's simply unthinkable that I could prefer the production on new Slayer to how it sounded on old albums.
Angelic Storm - 15.08.2010 at 05:06  
Rating: 9
Written by Vikcen on 15.08.2010 at 02:29
To begin, the sound of "And Justice For All" is better than "Rust In Peace" (not remastered) or any early album without remastering from Blind Guardian, Slayer, Sepultura or Testament. I don't like the album "Rust In Peace" without remastering, and neither"Countdown To Extinction" without remastering, both albums remastered gains a lot more. The same with Sepultura, i don't like "Beneath The Remains" and "Arise", but remastered yes, a lot more.

I agree with "Souls Of Black" and "The New Order" =). With Blind Guardian is another story, i have not entirely clear, the remasters i think that does not change much, i like both versions, maybe with Blind Guaridan i agre with you, don't need remaster.


I do not think that AJFA has better sound than the un-remastered RIP. It may be slightly clearer, but it has a very dry sound particularly on the drums, and due to the bass being mixed out, sounds a bit flat. The un-remastered RIP's production is warm, the drums sound powerful, and the bass is perfectly mixed within the album. I prefer all of the Megadeth albums in their un-remastered forms. Although Ive always had a love/hate relationship with SFSGSW's original mix, I still prefer it over the remaster because the eerie quality that the original had was lost in the remaster. That album needed remastering, but it was sadly done in a way that enhanced nothing other than making it a little more clear and louder, and removing it's greatest asset. "Killing Is My Business..." is another good example. The original production wasnt amazing, but it had a sound which I found, and still do to an extent, find quite unsettling. "The Skull Beneath The Skin" in particular has a very creepy sound, and the reverberating, echoy ending especially. When I heard the remaster, and found this had been removed, I was very disappointed. And now only listen to the original version. KIMB is actually rare in the Megadeth remasters in that it does actually enhance the sound to an extent. But again, stripping away it's creepy quality robs it of it's best asset.

I actually dont think Ive ever heard the Sepultura remasters, but seeing as I love BTR and "Arise" in their original forms, I dont see any great need to seek them out. xD

Although I really like the songs on "Souls Of Black", I really loath the production, it's horrid! lol It really needs remixing/remastering. And so does "The New Order".


Quote:
Charm, echo, dry, artificial... etc all this is a matter of tastes. Then for you, in your case, you can feel that they doesn't need remaster.

Then for you "And Justice for all" is a rare ocassion that needs remastering? and the albums cited not lol. Sorry, but i can't be agree with you. AJFA have better sound than the albums cited for example (without remastering of course ) as i have said before.


That is correct. It is just a matter of taste. I dont agree that AJFA has better sound than the un-remastered albums I mentioned, for reasons Ive just described. And yes I do think it needs remixed. The bass especially, badly needs to be re-instated on the album. I know some people dont think bass is very important, but for me, it is crucial in adding to, and enhancing an album's sound.

Quote:
The same i could say about "And Justice For All".


Seeing as Im not a fan of AJFA's current mix, I dont agree.

Quote:
Ending, in conclusion, it is a matter of tastes, but when someone stars to question an album like "And Justice For All" for their sound, i have to debate .


Well, Ive never liked AJFA's original production, and this is coming from someone who loves that album! If there are people that like it, then that's great. Its just always left me feeling a bit cold, and that something is missing. Even the band themselves, have stated dissatisfaction with it's production. lol The one thing I will say though, if it ever is remixed/remastered the echo must be kept, otherwise it will sound worse than it currently does.

hehee I dont mind debate, I enjoy it in fact.
Vikcen - 15.08.2010 at 05:48  
Rating: 10
Written by RavenKing on 15.08.2010 at 03:05

@Vikcen: I totally respect your point of view on the matter. I just don't share it. I must say that as an old metalhead who's been listening to metal for over 25 years, I've been used to unpolished sound in the 80s and I really struggle with new albums nowadays because I find them overpolished in general.
For me, it's simply unthinkable that I could prefer the production on new Slayer to how it sounded on old albums.


I understand you. It is totally respectable. In my case, not always is the same, i love the sound of old albums, i love old albums too, but not all hehe... At the same time, some new stuff in this decade, i find it artificial and synthetic, but not all. For example, about Slayer, i like very much "Reign in Blood" and "Seasons in the Abyss" too, or the early stuff of Metallica is another example for me, i like Testament too, Pantera, Iron Maiden, etc, etc. But the sound evolves with the new technology, and neither you can shut down on one thing, although one is getting older

The sound of a particular album (or how it sounds) is very personal for a person.
Vikcen - 15.08.2010 at 07:02  
Rating: 10
Written by Angelic Storm on 15.08.2010 at 05:06


I do not think that AJFA has better sound than the un-remastered RIP. It may be slightly clearer, but it has a very dry sound particularly on the drums, and due to the bass being mixed out, sounds a bit flat. The un-remastered RIP's production is warm, the drums sound powerful, and the bass is perfectly mixed within the album. I prefer all of the Megadeth albums in their un-remastered forms.


Precisely i found "And Justice For All" very powerful (even the drums ) in their sound, try to syntonize with high bass (i do it this way), maybe your opinion can change. And, that the bass not be heard, doesn't mean that the sound of a particular album is bad.

Written by Angelic Storm on 15.08.2010 at 05:06


I actually dont think Ive ever heard the Sepultura remasters, but seeing as I love BTR and "Arise" in their original forms, I dont see any great need to seek them out. xD

Although I really like the songs on "Souls Of Black", I really loath the production, it's horrid! lol It really needs remixing/remastering. And so does "The New Order".



About Sepultura, I recommend strongly the remasters, you can try more listenings, in earnest, it is exceptional =).

I feel the same with "The New Order", although i love it. And i think the same with the first "The Legacy".

Written by Angelic Storm on 15.08.2010 at 05:06


hehee I dont mind debate, I enjoy it in fact.



The same .
mz - 20.12.2010 at 10:01  
Rating: 7 I don't know why they accepted this stupid bassist. the base can't be heard even in "blackended" that was written by jason.
mz - 20.12.2010 at 10:01  
Rating: 7 I don't know why they accepted this stupid bassist. the base can't be heard even in "blackended" that was written by jason.
Array - 20.12.2010 at 17:05  
Rating: 10
Written by mz on 20.12.2010 at 10:01

I don't know why they accepted this stupid bassist. the base can't be heard even in "blackended" that was written by jason.

James, Lars, Jason.
Angelic Storm - 20.12.2010 at 21:37  
Rating: 9
Written by mz on 20.12.2010 at 10:01

I don't know why they accepted this stupid bassist. the base can't be heard even in "blackended" that was written by jason.


Eh? It's not Jason's fault that the bass can't be heard on this album! It was the fault of the production, and it was James and Lars' decision to take out the bass in the final mix.
Lit. - 12.04.2011 at 02:23  
  Blackened, One and Harvester of Sorrow are the only ones I find good on this.
Everything else is either dull or exceedingly long to the point of boredom.
Also, why does an album like this need 4 reviews? I know it's Metallica, but come on...
Vikcen - 12.04.2011 at 07:53  
Rating: 10
Written by Lit. on 12.04.2011 at 02:23

Blackened, One and Harvester of Sorrow are the only ones I find good on this.
Everything else is either dull or exceedingly long to the point of boredom.
Also, why does an album like this need 4 reviews? I know it's Metallica, but come on...


What about such masterpieces "...And Justice For All", "To Live Is To Die" and "Dyers Eve"? =)
Troy Killjoy - 12.04.2011 at 15:23  
Rating: 6
Written by Vikcen on 12.04.2011 at 07:53

Written by Lit. on 12.04.2011 at 02:23

Blackened, One and Harvester of Sorrow are the only ones I find good on this.
Everything else is either dull or exceedingly long to the point of boredom.
Also, why does an album like this need 4 reviews? I know it's Metallica, but come on...


What about such masterpieces "...And Justice For All", "To Live Is To Die" and "Dyers Eve"? =)

More than ever, the term "masterpiece" is subjective here. This album is boring.
Vikcen - 13.04.2011 at 02:14  
Rating: 10
Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.04.2011 at 15:23

Written by Vikcen on 12.04.2011 at 07:53

Written by Lit. on 12.04.2011 at 02:23

Blackened, One and Harvester of Sorrow are the only ones I find good on this.
Everything else is either dull or exceedingly long to the point of boredom.
Also, why does an album like this need 4 reviews? I know it's Metallica, but come on...


What about such masterpieces "...And Justice For All", "To Live Is To Die" and "Dyers Eve"? =)

More than ever, the term "masterpiece" is subjective here. This album is boring.


Always is subjective then?
K†ulu - 13.04.2011 at 17:04  
Rating: 9
Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.04.2011 at 15:23

Written by Vikcen on 12.04.2011 at 07:53

Written by Lit. on 12.04.2011 at 02:23

Blackened, One and Harvester of Sorrow are the only ones I find good on this.
Everything else is either dull or exceedingly long to the point of boredom.
Also, why does an album like this need 4 reviews? I know it's Metallica, but come on...


What about such masterpieces "...And Justice For All", "To Live Is To Die" and "Dyers Eve"? =)

More than ever, the term "masterpiece" is subjective here. This album is boring.

Such statements are a waste Internet space. Seriously, you could say that about any album.
Troy Killjoy - 14.04.2011 at 01:07  
Rating: 6
Written by K†ulu on 13.04.2011 at 17:04

Such statements are a waste Internet space. Seriously, you could say that about any album.

They aren't a waste of space when the topic of conversation is about an album I happen to have an opinion on. If every opinionated comment was a waste of space these forums would be completely barren, with the exception of the Pub and various non-music-related threads.
Vikcen - 14.04.2011 at 05:13  
Rating: 10 A)
What makes to an album or song a masterpiece?

1) The opinion of the public.
2) Sales.
3) Criticism of the specialized press.
4) Specialized press + Sales.
5) Specialized press + Public.
6) Specialized press + Public + Sales.
7) The "objective" opinion of a musician? that might to have a musical career, studies in a conservatory, music school, with knowledge that can include: the playing of musical instruments, singing, musical composition, musicianship, musicology, music history and music theory.
8) 6) + 7) or 1) + 7) or...
9) etc.


B)
About "More than ever":

If we only look the option 1), i remember that "...And Justice For All" is in the position 81. and 1420 votes within the top 100 of MetalStorm, yes, the site where we have this topic of conversation.


C)
But i ask again, Always is subjective? yes or not.
R'Vannith - 14.04.2011 at 05:44  
Rating: 10
Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.04.2011 at 15:23

the term "masterpiece" is subjective here. This album is boring.


the term "boring" is subjective here. This album is a masterpiece.
R'Vannith - 14.04.2011 at 05:54  
Rating: 10
Written by Vikcen on 14.04.2011 at 05:13

A)
What makes to an album or song a masterpiece?

1) The opinion of the public.
2) Sales.
3) Criticism of the specialized press.
4) Specialized press + Sales.
5) Specialized press + Public.
6) Specialized press + Public + Sales.
7) The "objective" opinion of a musician? that might to have a musical career, studies in a conservatory, music school, with knowledge that can include: the playing of musical instruments, singing, musical composition, musicianship, musicology, music history and music theory.
8) 6) + 7) or 1) + 7) or...
9) etc.


B)
About "More than ever":

If we only look the option 1), i remember that "...And Justice For All" is in the position 81. and 1420 votes within the top 100 of MetalStorm, yes, the site where we have this topic of conversation.


C)
But i ask again, Always is subjective? yes or not.


Yes, its always subjective. If there are enough individual subjective opinions about a particular album being a "masterpiece" and there is general agreement between such subjective opinions, then you have an 'objective' opinion of an album being a "masterpiece". An individual claim that an album is a "masterpiece" even if there is some sense in which the album is 'objectively' a masterpiece is still a subjective recognition of that 'objectivity'. By 'objective' I don't mean something totally independant of human opinion, such a thing doesn't exist in this context.
Vikcen - 14.04.2011 at 06:58  
Rating: 10
Written by R'Vannith on 14.04.2011 at 05:54

Written by Vikcen on 14.04.2011 at 05:13

A)
What makes to an album or song a masterpiece?

1) The opinion of the public.
2) Sales.
3) Criticism of the specialized press.
4) Specialized press + Sales.
5) Specialized press + Public.
6) Specialized press + Public + Sales.
7) The "objective" opinion of a musician? that might to have a musical career, studies in a conservatory, music school, with knowledge that can include: the playing of musical instruments, singing, musical composition, musicianship, musicology, music history and music theory.
8) 6) + 7) or 1) + 7) or...
9) etc.


B)
About "More than ever":

If we only look the option 1), i remember that "...And Justice For All" is in the position 81. and 1420 votes within the top 100 of MetalStorm, yes, the site where we have this topic of conversation.


C)
But i ask again, Always is subjective? yes or not.


Yes, its always subjective. If there are enough individual subjective opinions about a particular album being a "masterpiece" and there is general agreement between such subjective opinions, then you have an 'objective' opinion of an album being a "masterpiece". An individual claim that an album is a "masterpiece" even if there is some sense in which the album is 'objectively' a masterpiece is still a subjective recognition of that 'objectivity'. By 'objective' I don't mean something totally independant of human opinion, such a thing doesn't exist in this context.


Hehe, yes, the answer is yes =). And i agree, i like all what you said about it, and how you said it. But as it was questioned the "objectivity" of this album in particular in that particular way, i have no choice but to raise the dilemma in this context, but like you said, such a thing doesn't exist in this context. But when he posed this dilemma in that particular way, more than ever this album have some "objective" data at least, if this have some sense.

I'm sure that a person have his particular collection, and within this collection his own masterpieces, and i vote for this, for your soul. The rest (i'm refering to A) and B), the presumptive objectivity) is at least interesting, or can help to you to know, or even can be funny, or entertaining, etc, etc, at least for me, or as we are doing: debating haha =).
Troy Killjoy - 14.04.2011 at 08:18  
Rating: 6
Written by R'Vannith on 14.04.2011 at 05:44

Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.04.2011 at 15:23

the term "masterpiece" is subjective here. This album is boring.


the term "boring" is subjective here. This album is a masterpiece.

In the immortal words of Sean Maguire: I was being ironical.
Angelic Storm - 14.04.2011 at 09:15  
Rating: 9
Written by R'Vannith on 14.04.2011 at 05:44
the term "boring" is subjective here. This album is a masterpiece.


It's only subjective if that opinion is coming from a position of bias, rather than personal objectivity. Which is something you could also apply to someone calling it a "masterpiece". It is not a fact that the album is a "masterpiece" or "boring", they are both merely opinions. I do think the album is a classic, but people who think otherwise are completely entitled to think that, because whether the album is great or it sucks purely comes down to personal opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
K†ulu - 14.04.2011 at 11:17  
Rating: 9
Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.04.2011 at 01:07

Written by K†ulu on 13.04.2011 at 17:04

Such statements are a waste Internet space. Seriously, you could say that about any album.

They aren't a waste of space when the topic of conversation is about an album I happen to have an opinion on. If every opinionated comment was a waste of space these forums would be completely barren, with the exception of the Pub and various non-music-related threads.

You statement would be not a waste of Internet space if you said, "I think this album is boring" without saying that calling it a masterpiece is subjective. It is so because calling it boring is just as subjective. So I think Impeckable expressed my idea quite well.

You are talking about "opinionated comment" but you haven't even tried to have a constructive argument about this album: at least saying why you think the album is boring, which songs are boring in particular etc. And I'd rather have these forums empty than having comments like these.
Troy Killjoy - 14.04.2011 at 15:32  
Rating: 6
Written by K†ulu on 14.04.2011 at 11:17

You statement would be not a waste of Internet space if you said, "I think this album is boring" without saying that calling it a masterpiece is subjective. It is so because calling it boring is just as subjective. So I think Impeckable expressed my idea quite well.

1. I don't think people should have to add "in my opinion", "I think...", etc. when discussing art (music). I'm pretty sure it's implied that it's your opinion when you say something is good or bad.
2. Read my previous response to Impeckable. I was making fun:

"This is a masterpiece." [subjective]
"That's subjective. [obviously] This is boring." [subjective] = irony

Back to point 1: I don't think adding "my opinion" and whatnot is necessary. You didn't mention anything about your opinion when stating "masterpiece" songs, but I knew it was an opinionated statement because those statements were being made about music.
K†ulu - 14.04.2011 at 15:52  
Rating: 9
Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.04.2011 at 15:32

Written by K†ulu on 14.04.2011 at 11:17

You statement would be not a waste of Internet space if you said, "I think this album is boring" without saying that calling it a masterpiece is subjective. It is so because calling it boring is just as subjective. So I think Impeckable expressed my idea quite well.

1. I don't think people should have to add "in my opinion", "I think...", etc. when discussing art (music). I'm pretty sure it's implied that it's your opinion when you say something is good or bad.
2. Read my previous response to Impeckable. I was making fun:

"This is a masterpiece." [subjective]
"That's subjective. [obviously] This is boring." [subjective] = irony

Back to point 1: I don't think adding "my opinion" and whatnot is necessary. You didn't mention anything about your opinion when stating "masterpiece" songs, but I knew it was an opinionated statement because those statements were being made about music.

so you were joking from the very beginning, when commenting on Vikcen?
Troy Killjoy - 14.04.2011 at 15:57  
Rating: 6
Written by K†ulu on 14.04.2011 at 15:52

so you were joking from the very beginning, when commenting on Vikcen?

Re-read this:
Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.04.2011 at 15:23

Written by Vikcen on 12.04.2011 at 07:53

What about such masterpieces "...And Justice For All", "To Live Is To Die" and "Dyers Eve"? =)

More than ever, the term "masterpiece" is subjective here. This album is boring.

It was a play on you calling songs from this album masterpieces. Because you made such an opinionated statement out to be a fact, I thought I'd do the same.
K†ulu - 14.04.2011 at 16:03  
Rating: 9
Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.04.2011 at 15:57

Written by K†ulu on 14.04.2011 at 15:52

so you were joking from the very beginning, when commenting on Vikcen?

Re-read this:
Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.04.2011 at 15:23

Written by Vikcen on 12.04.2011 at 07:53

What about such masterpieces "...And Justice For All", "To Live Is To Die" and "Dyers Eve"? =)

More than ever, the term "masterpiece" is subjective here. This album is boring.

It was a play on you calling songs from this album masterpieces. Because you made such an opinionated statement out to be a fact, I thought I'd do the same.

Now I can confidently say that it was a waste of Internet space.
Vikcen - 14.04.2011 at 21:42  
Rating: 10
Written by K†ulu on 14.04.2011 at 16:03


Now I can confidently say that it was a waste of Internet space.



Hahaha, I'm sure that you've learned a lot after reading all this .
megametallic0710 - 07.05.2011 at 02:32  
Rating: 7 I don't really know what to say about this album. It's not their best and it's not their worst album. I think that if james and lars included the sound of bass in the album it would sound way better. Their are 3 songs on the album that are very boring to listen to, ...and justice for all, eye of the beholder and to live is to die. They sound the same throughout. The rest of the songs are pretty good but it's not my favorite metallica album
Death_95 - 02.06.2011 at 11:38  
Rating: 10 This is my 3rd favorite metal album of all time, but does anyone else think "One" is the slowest and worst song on the album ?
Angelic Storm - 02.06.2011 at 12:02  
Rating: 9
Written by Death_95 on 02.06.2011 at 11:38

This is my 3rd favorite metal album of all time, but does anyone else think "One" is the slowest and worst song on the album ?


I definitely dont think that, no. I don't dislike any of the songs. lol Although if I had to pick a worst, Id pick "To Live Is To Die", as the main riff is probably repeated a bit too much.
Death_95 - 02.06.2011 at 12:30  
Rating: 10
Written by Angelic Storm on 02.06.2011 at 12:02

Written by Death_95 on 02.06.2011 at 11:38

This is my 3rd favorite metal album of all time, but does anyone else think "One" is the slowest and worst song on the album ?


I definitely dont think that, no. I don't dislike any of the songs. lol Although if I had to pick a worst, Id pick "To Live Is To Die", as the main riff is probably repeated a bit too much.

Orion and Suicide And Redemption are better, but still "To Live Is To Die" is a great song IMO. I don't know why but I never liked One that much, it's the only song I wouldn't give a 10 on the album lol. Another instrumental I just listened to recently is "Joseph Merrick" by Mastodon, it's just epic. I think they were inspired by Orion since they did a cover of it on the "Kerrang: Master Of Puppets [Tribute]" album.
Vikcen - 02.06.2011 at 14:18  
Rating: 10 He, To Live Is To Die is probably the best instrumental song from Metallica, put it With high volume, put the bass also high, and hallucinate (y flipa).

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