Written by Hyvaarin on 14.04.2007 at 07:19

Written by Doc G. on 14.04.2007 at 07:08

Written by Hyvaarin on 14.04.2007 at 07:02

Written by Doc G. on 11.04.2007 at 02:03

Nah, true metal is purely relative, it depends on your peers, whatever bands you wont get made fun of for listening to are considered tr00. Thats why 12 year olds may consider Limp Bizkit tr00 metal....or whatever terrible band pre-pubescent wannabe metalheads are listening to these days...

I seriously doubt that people like that would have heard the term 'true metal', let alone use it.

Youd be surprised, I couldve sworn I heard some kid who looked like he was 14 wearing a Slipknot hoodie on the bus use that phrase, probably a kid who listens to what his older sibling(s) tell him to.

Christ...that is disgusting.

yeah, if you care about metal dont ever come to mid-western canada, its a big circus of metal-desicration, people who actually know something about metal are rare in these parts. The term 'Tr00 Metal' is a joke to you people who live in somewhat decent areas. But youll understand where the term tr00 metal comes from if you see the epidemic of sh*t over here. In other words, Manowar would go on a killing spree if they ever came to Alberta.

False metal - Metalcore, nu metal
In between - grindcore, sludge, stoner metal, industrial metal, 'faggoth'
True metal - gothic, power, black, folk, death, thrash, heavy, prog, doom, symphonic metal

The ideologies, musical styles, imagery and fanbase of the 2 ends are completely oppossed and oposite ends of 'heavy music'. True metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving (ie ManOwaR, HammerFall, gr1m black metal etc), for a band like Arcturus, who are far more progressive than almost any false metal band, are undeniably 'true'

And trueness does matter, go listen to a BFMV or Slipknot song and you will understand why

isnt the term just another way to put a genre on everything?......... and what would you consider true metal, couldnt it be everything... think about how metal started out, if a band is influenced by those original metal bands dont you think that anny of those bands would be true metal..... i donno, just a thought...

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore, nu metal
In between - grindcore, sludge, stoner metal, industrial metal, 'faggoth'
True metal - gothic, power, black, folk, death, thrash, heavy, prog, doom, symphonic metal

The ideologies, musical styles, imagery and fanbase of the 2 ends are completely oppossed and oposite ends of 'heavy music'. True metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving (ie ManOwaR, HammerFall, gr1m black metal etc), for a band like Arcturus, who are far more progressive than almost any false metal band, are undeniably 'true'

And trueness does matter, go listen to a BFMV or Slipknot song and you will understand why

Opposed and opposite ends?

How so?

What are the qualities of the music that you are entering into the equation?

"true metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving"

How do you classify Darkthrone - or the thousands upon thousands of Darkthrone clones who think they can also be grim, kvlt, and necro by painting their faces, posing for photos and underproducing craptacular music that should never have left the shelter of their basements/garages/caves? Are the Darkthrone Babies "true?"

How is Black Metal - which has simultaneously both stagnated and evolved depending upon one's influences more "true" than Grindcore? Or Industrial metal?


"True Metal" is a term for losers with inadequacy issues who want to simultaneously feel superior about their own musical tastes while slagging the tastes of others.

True metal is anything that is real metal, thats it, so simple. Well, with the exeption of black metal, because they are in another level of true metal, they are like so true that we cant call them true just kvlt

I like the Manowar concept of "true" metal. They don't recognise nu-metal, metalcore bands and some other shits like that as metal and neither do I and I think most of you hate nu-metal. So, I think there really is true and false metal.

Written by BitterCOld on 18.04.2007 at 03:05

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore, nu metal
In between - grindcore, sludge, stoner metal, industrial metal, 'faggoth'
True metal - gothic, power, black, folk, death, thrash, heavy, prog, doom, symphonic metal

The ideologies, musical styles, imagery and fanbase of the 2 ends are completely oppossed and oposite ends of 'heavy music'. True metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving (ie ManOwaR, HammerFall, gr1m black metal etc), for a band like Arcturus, who are far more progressive than almost any false metal band, are undeniably 'true'

And trueness does matter, go listen to a BFMV or Slipknot song and you will understand why

Opposed and opposite ends?

How so?

What are the qualities of the music that you are entering into the equation?

"true metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving"

How do you classify Darkthrone - or the thousands upon thousands of Darkthrone clones who think they can also be grim, kvlt, and necro by painting their faces, posing for photos and underproducing craptacular music that should never have left the shelter of their basements/garages/caves? Are the Darkthrone Babies "true?"

How is Black Metal - which has simultaneously both stagnated and evolved depending upon one's influences more "true" than Grindcore? Or Industrial metal?


"True Metal" is a term for losers with inadequacy issues who want to simultaneously feel superior about their own musical tastes while slagging the tastes of others.

kudos my freind ... you explanaition is amazing ....

Written by BitterCOld on 18.04.2007 at 03:05

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore, nu metal
In between - grindcore, sludge, stoner metal, industrial metal, 'faggoth'
True metal - gothic, power, black, folk, death, thrash, heavy, prog, doom, symphonic metal

The ideologies, musical styles, imagery and fanbase of the 2 ends are completely oppossed and oposite ends of 'heavy music'. True metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving (ie ManOwaR, HammerFall, gr1m black metal etc), for a band like Arcturus, who are far more progressive than almost any false metal band, are undeniably 'true'

And trueness does matter, go listen to a BFMV or Slipknot song and you will understand why

Opposed and opposite ends?

How so?

What are the qualities of the music that you are entering into the equation?

"true metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving"

How do you classify Darkthrone - or the thousands upon thousands of Darkthrone clones who think they can also be grim, kvlt, and necro by painting their faces, posing for photos and underproducing craptacular music that should never have left the shelter of their basements/garages/caves? Are the Darkthrone Babies "true?"

How is Black Metal - which has simultaneously both stagnated and evolved depending upon one's influences more "true" than Grindcore? Or Industrial metal?


"True Metal" is a term for losers with inadequacy issues who want to simultaneously feel superior about their own musical tastes while slagging the tastes of others.

You misunderstand me, I was implying that 'true metal' can refer to experimental bands (such as Ulver, Arcturus), not just the bands liek Darkthrone and ManOwaR who stick to the same sound. Rather than that 'true metal' bands have to be progressive (obviously not correct)

Most of the heavy music I listen to is 'true metal', but I'm not the kind of narrowminded idiot who thinks anytihng outside it is all 'no talent mallcore garbage!!1!111', I enjoy Neurosis and the very mainstream Rammstein for example.

From Wikipedia:
Factors that typicaly contribute to the True Metal label
Mellodic singing, black metal rasps/screeches or death grunts
Musical influences from folk and classical music
Guitar solos, mellodies and riffs and sometimes keyboards
Long and progressive song structures (not required)
Heathen, mythological, fantasy or historical themes (often, but not always, uplifting)
Metalhead or warrior image

Factors that typicaly contribute to the False Metal label
Vocals including Rapping, post hardcore screams, pop punk style singing and shouted vocals
Musical influences from post hardcore or hip hop
Detuned, simplistic guitar
The use of DJ turntables
Over-reliance on short songs and catchy pop song structures
Teen angst themes
Mallcore, hxc or emo image

I guess I generaly enjoy all the factors in the former list and dislike those in the latter.

Grindcore and Industrial metal do not have factors from either lsit, they are seperate, and are closer to the extreeme punk and industrial subcultures respectively. Black metal is purely part of the metal subculture and draws alot from the former list. This doesn't make Industrial or Grind any worse but it does make them more 'true' (though I do personaly think grind is idiotic joke music, far more rediculous than the cheesiest power metal))

I thinkt hat most people who use the term are aware of its absurd elitist connotations and like me find it somewhat amusing and endearing.

The thing is, Wiki - in this instance - is covering a subject matter that exists only because people invented it. They pick and choose what they want to create an artificial litmus test. Melodic singing, screeches and grunts are "TRUE!" whereas screams are "FALSE!" Seems to me that screams are closer to screeches and grunts on the vocal spectrum than melodic vocals are.

It's a joke, really.

There is only one True Metal band - NanowaR (of Fire!)

Written by BitterCOld on 23.04.2007 at 19:50

The thing is, Wiki - in this instance - is covering a subject matter that exists only because people invented it. They pick and choose what they want to create an artificial litmus test. Melodic singing, screeches and grunts are "TRUE!" whereas screams are "FALSE!" Seems to me that screams are closer to screeches and grunts on the vocal spectrum than melodic vocals are.

It's a joke, really.

There is only one True Metal band - NanowaR (of Fire!)

Witht he whole hxc screams thing, it's not so much about what the music it sounds like but the kind of people it appeals to. Every mellodic metaller and extreme metaller I know hates hardcore screaming.

The ulver song I'm listneing to atm has more in common with rap than metal, but it's overall aesthetic and sound appeals more to metalheads than wiggas. I guess that's the whole point.

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore

Could you explain to me how bands like Killswitch Engage or Demon Hunter are not metal? Not heavy enough? Sorry, but I have seen KsE in concert, I have see Sonata Arctica in soncert, and those Metalcore guys were way heavier than the Finnish Power Metal legands.

Metalcore is a combination of Hardcore (which came from Metal via Punk) and Thrash/Death Metal. A band like The Red Death seems to have more Metal than a band like Pain of Salvation. So does that mean PoS is not metal? No, they are Prog-Art Metal, just like The Red Death is Metalcore/Thrash.

Written by Dane Train on 27.04.2007 at 04:15

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore

Could you explain to me how bands like Killswitch Engage or Demon Hunter are not metal? Not heavy enough? Sorry, but I have seen KsE in concert, I have see Sonata Arctica in soncert, and those Metalcore guys were way heavier than the Finnish Power Metal legands.

Metalcore is a combination of Hardcore (which came from Metal via Punk) and Thrash/Death Metal. A band like The Red Death seems to have more Metal than a band like Pain of Salvation. So does that mean PoS is not metal? No, they are Prog-Art Metal, just like The Red Death is Metalcore/Thrash.

Even though I don't like Metalcore, I agree with your point.
Saying something isn't metal (when it clearly is) just 'cos you don't like it, is utterly childish in my opinion.
I don't like Linkin Park, but it IS nu-METAL.
I don't like Killswitch Engage, but it is metal.
and I could keep going like that for ages.

Written by Dane Train on 27.04.2007 at 04:15

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore

Could you explain to me how bands like Killswitch Engage or Demon Hunter are not metal? Not heavy enough? Sorry, but I have seen KsE in concert, I have see Sonata Arctica in soncert, and those Metalcore guys were way heavier than the Finnish Power Metal legands.

Metalcore is a combination of Hardcore (which came from Metal via Punk) and Thrash/Death Metal. A band like The Red Death seems to have more Metal than a band like Pain of Salvation. So does that mean PoS is not metal? No, they are Prog-Art Metal, just like The Red Death is Metalcore/Thrash.

It's not vaguely about how heavy you are as I and many others have said in previous posts. It's about fanbase. I would agree that KSE and Shadows Fall etc have a sound extremely close to metal. But it's about the kind of people who like the music, the image, the feel etc. PoS and SA's fans arent trendy emo kids, a band like converge's fans general are.

Punk didn't come from metal, but thrash metal was influenced by punk.

Of course 'true metal' isn't actualy a genre, nor a indicator of quality. But it's a term, a scene, like 'emo' or 'viking metal' or 'indie', these aren't actualy genres with boundaries based on music.

So, the fanbase is what determines if it is a real metal genre or not? Well, I guess we had better rule Dream Theater out as being metal since the majority of fans I have seen at their shows are over the age of 30. Now if all of a sudden massive amounts of Emo and Indie kids started listening to Borknagar then that would me Borknagar is no longer metal?

And yes, Punk did come from metal. Punk was born as a backlash to the arena rock acts of the mid 1970's. Punk stemmed from the early metal bands and mix in an element of glam/glitter rock while rooting back to a more simplistic way of playing.

Written by [user id=5431] on 22.04.2007 at 17:31

Written by BitterCOld on 18.04.2007 at 03:05

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore, nu metal
In between - grindcore, sludge, stoner metal, industrial metal, 'faggoth'
True metal - gothic, power, black, folk, death, thrash, heavy, prog, doom, symphonic metal

The ideologies, musical styles, imagery and fanbase of the 2 ends are completely oppossed and oposite ends of 'heavy music'. True metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving (ie ManOwaR, HammerFall, gr1m black metal etc), for a band like Arcturus, who are far more progressive than almost any false metal band, are undeniably 'true'

And trueness does matter, go listen to a BFMV or Slipknot song and you will understand why

Opposed and opposite ends?

How so?

What are the qualities of the music that you are entering into the equation?

"true metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving"

How do you classify Darkthrone - or the thousands upon thousands of Darkthrone clones who think they can also be grim, kvlt, and necro by painting their faces, posing for photos and underproducing craptacular music that should never have left the shelter of their basements/garages/caves? Are the Darkthrone Babies "true?"

How is Black Metal - which has simultaneously both stagnated and evolved depending upon one's influences more "true" than Grindcore? Or Industrial metal?


"True Metal" is a term for losers with inadequacy issues who want to simultaneously feel superior about their own musical tastes while slagging the tastes of others.

You misunderstand me, I was implying that 'true metal' can refer to experimental bands (such as Ulver, Arcturus), not just the bands liek Darkthrone and ManOwaR who stick to the same sound. Rather than that 'true metal' bands have to be progressive (obviously not correct)

Most of the heavy music I listen to is 'true metal', but I'm not the kind of narrowminded idiot who thinks anytihng outside it is all 'no talent mallcore garbage!!1!111', I enjoy Neurosis and the very mainstream Rammstein for example.

From Wikipedia:
Factors that typicaly contribute to the True Metal label
Mellodic singing, black metal rasps/screeches or death grunts
Musical influences from folk and classical music
Guitar solos, mellodies and riffs and sometimes keyboards
Long and progressive song structures (not required)
Heathen, mythological, fantasy or historical themes (often, but not always, uplifting)
Metalhead or warrior image

Factors that typicaly contribute to the False Metal label
Vocals including Rapping, post hardcore screams, pop punk style singing and shouted vocals
Musical influences from post hardcore or hip hop
Detuned, simplistic guitar
The use of DJ turntables
Over-reliance on short songs and catchy pop song structures
Teen angst themes
Mallcore, hxc or emo image

I guess I generaly enjoy all the factors in the former list and dislike those in the latter.

Grindcore and Industrial metal do not have factors from either lsit, they are seperate, and are closer to the extreeme punk and industrial subcultures respectively. Black metal is purely part of the metal subculture and draws alot from the former list. This doesn't make Industrial or Grind any worse but it does make them more 'true' (though I do personaly think grind is idiotic joke music, far more rediculous than the cheesiest power metal))

I thinkt hat most people who use the term are aware of its absurd elitist connotations and like me find it somewhat amusing and endearing.

Lol, you never cease to make me laugh. Wikipedia is open to anyone modifying it and the way 'mellodic' has been spelt leads me to believe that you yourself could have edited it. It's spelt 'melodic' but anyway. Even a universal colloquial definition of true/false metal is meaningless, but I understand you pointed that out. Just concluding.

Written by Daru Jericho on 29.04.2007 at 02:44

Written by [user id=5431] on 22.04.2007 at 17:31

Written by BitterCOld on 18.04.2007 at 03:05

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore, nu metal
In between - grindcore, sludge, stoner metal, industrial metal, 'faggoth'
True metal - gothic, power, black, folk, death, thrash, heavy, prog, doom, symphonic metal

The ideologies, musical styles, imagery and fanbase of the 2 ends are completely oppossed and oposite ends of 'heavy music'. True metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving (ie ManOwaR, HammerFall, gr1m black metal etc), for a band like Arcturus, who are far more progressive than almost any false metal band, are undeniably 'true'

And trueness does matter, go listen to a BFMV or Slipknot song and you will understand why

Opposed and opposite ends?

How so?

What are the qualities of the music that you are entering into the equation?

"true metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving"

How do you classify Darkthrone - or the thousands upon thousands of Darkthrone clones who think they can also be grim, kvlt, and necro by painting their faces, posing for photos and underproducing craptacular music that should never have left the shelter of their basements/garages/caves? Are the Darkthrone Babies "true?"

How is Black Metal - which has simultaneously both stagnated and evolved depending upon one's influences more "true" than Grindcore? Or Industrial metal?


"True Metal" is a term for losers with inadequacy issues who want to simultaneously feel superior about their own musical tastes while slagging the tastes of others.

You misunderstand me, I was implying that 'true metal' can refer to experimental bands (such as Ulver, Arcturus), not just the bands liek Darkthrone and ManOwaR who stick to the same sound. Rather than that 'true metal' bands have to be progressive (obviously not correct)

Most of the heavy music I listen to is 'true metal', but I'm not the kind of narrowminded idiot who thinks anytihng outside it is all 'no talent mallcore garbage!!1!111', I enjoy Neurosis and the very mainstream Rammstein for example.

From Wikipedia:
Factors that typicaly contribute to the True Metal label
Mellodic singing, black metal rasps/screeches or death grunts
Musical influences from folk and classical music
Guitar solos, mellodies and riffs and sometimes keyboards
Long and progressive song structures (not required)
Heathen, mythological, fantasy or historical themes (often, but not always, uplifting)
Metalhead or warrior image

Factors that typicaly contribute to the False Metal label
Vocals including Rapping, post hardcore screams, pop punk style singing and shouted vocals
Musical influences from post hardcore or hip hop
Detuned, simplistic guitar
The use of DJ turntables
Over-reliance on short songs and catchy pop song structures
Teen angst themes
Mallcore, hxc or emo image

I guess I generaly enjoy all the factors in the former list and dislike those in the latter.

Grindcore and Industrial metal do not have factors from either lsit, they are seperate, and are closer to the extreeme punk and industrial subcultures respectively. Black metal is purely part of the metal subculture and draws alot from the former list. This doesn't make Industrial or Grind any worse but it does make them more 'true' (though I do personaly think grind is idiotic joke music, far more rediculous than the cheesiest power metal))

I thinkt hat most people who use the term are aware of its absurd elitist connotations and like me find it somewhat amusing and endearing.

Lol, you never cease to make me laugh. Wikipedia is open to anyone modifying it and the way 'mellodic' has been spelt leads me to believe that you yourself could have edited it. It's spelt 'melodic' but anyway. Even a universal colloquial definition of true/false metal is meaningless, but I understand you pointed that out. Just concluding.

Yes any idiot can edit wikipedia (I edited that page because someone put heavy metal under 'false metal' for some retarded reason) but do you actualy disagree with that definition at all? to me it's the msot osund description I've read. Or are you just looking to criticise something for criticisms sake?

Written by Dane Train on 27.04.2007 at 20:40

So, the fanbase is what determines if it is a real metal genre or not? Well, I guess we had better rule Dream Theater out as being metal since the majority of fans I have seen at their shows are over the age of 30. Now if all of a sudden massive amounts of Emo and Indie kids started listening to Borknagar then that would me Borknagar is no longer metal?

And yes, Punk did come from metal. Punk was born as a backlash to the arena rock acts of the mid 1970's. Punk stemmed from the early metal bands and mix in an element of glam/glitter rock while rooting back to a more simplistic way of playing.

It's not who listens (all the hardcore kids who like Maiden for example) but who the music is geared for. If Borknagar became mainstream as they are they wouldnt have sold out, merely got inexplicably famous, but if they started using downtuned rythmical guitar, breakdowns and rapping/screamo vocals then they'd no longer be 'true metal'. This album would probably be much heavier than Origin but as you can clearly tell it'd be 'less metal'.

For example do you honestly think for example that CoB's newest album is more 'metal' than their early efforts because it replaces their neoclassical influences with a harder, heavier metalcore edge?

Punk did pick up mildly from very early classic metal bands but as a late 70s movement (predating metal's mainstream dominance in the 80s) it was more of a reaction against big 70s genres such as progressive rock and early glam rock like Queen rather than the metal of the 80s.

Since when are over 30s not metal? I have met loads of old metalheads, especialy power and prog metallers.

So who the song is written for ultimately determines if said band is Metal or not? So my band Recompense would not be Metal because we write every song for Jesus and not for the Progressive and/or Death Metal community, yet our style is a Prog-Death one?

What does it matter who the music is being written for? Slash recorded a Jazz album that was marketed for Metal fans. Does that mean it was not a Jazz album? Or How about Dream Theater? They write their music for just five people, themselves. Not their fans. So are they not Metal?

To me it sounds like you just want to bash people who listen to Nu-Metal or Metalcore. The same thing was done back in the 1980's between American Thrash Metal kids and Glam Metal kids. Get over it. Limp Bizkit might suck, but their still a Metal Band.

Written by [user id=5431] on 29.04.2007 at 14:39

Written by Daru Jericho on 29.04.2007 at 02:44

Written by [user id=5431] on 22.04.2007 at 17:31

Written by BitterCOld on 18.04.2007 at 03:05

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore, nu metal
In between - grindcore, sludge, stoner metal, industrial metal, 'faggoth'
True metal - gothic, power, black, folk, death, thrash, heavy, prog, doom, symphonic metal

The ideologies, musical styles, imagery and fanbase of the 2 ends are completely oppossed and oposite ends of 'heavy music'. True metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving (ie ManOwaR, HammerFall, gr1m black metal etc), for a band like Arcturus, who are far more progressive than almost any false metal band, are undeniably 'true'

And trueness does matter, go listen to a BFMV or Slipknot song and you will understand why

Opposed and opposite ends?

How so?

What are the qualities of the music that you are entering into the equation?

"true metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving"

How do you classify Darkthrone - or the thousands upon thousands of Darkthrone clones who think they can also be grim, kvlt, and necro by painting their faces, posing for photos and underproducing craptacular music that should never have left the shelter of their basements/garages/caves? Are the Darkthrone Babies "true?"

How is Black Metal - which has simultaneously both stagnated and evolved depending upon one's influences more "true" than Grindcore? Or Industrial metal?


"True Metal" is a term for losers with inadequacy issues who want to simultaneously feel superior about their own musical tastes while slagging the tastes of others.

You misunderstand me, I was implying that 'true metal' can refer to experimental bands (such as Ulver, Arcturus), not just the bands liek Darkthrone and ManOwaR who stick to the same sound. Rather than that 'true metal' bands have to be progressive (obviously not correct)

Most of the heavy music I listen to is 'true metal', but I'm not the kind of narrowminded idiot who thinks anytihng outside it is all 'no talent mallcore garbage!!1!111', I enjoy Neurosis and the very mainstream Rammstein for example.

From Wikipedia:
Factors that typicaly contribute to the True Metal label
Mellodic singing, black metal rasps/screeches or death grunts
Musical influences from folk and classical music
Guitar solos, mellodies and riffs and sometimes keyboards
Long and progressive song structures (not required)
Heathen, mythological, fantasy or historical themes (often, but not always, uplifting)
Metalhead or warrior image

Factors that typicaly contribute to the False Metal label
Vocals including Rapping, post hardcore screams, pop punk style singing and shouted vocals
Musical influences from post hardcore or hip hop
Detuned, simplistic guitar
The use of DJ turntables
Over-reliance on short songs and catchy pop song structures
Teen angst themes
Mallcore, hxc or emo image

I guess I generaly enjoy all the factors in the former list and dislike those in the latter.

Grindcore and Industrial metal do not have factors from either lsit, they are seperate, and are closer to the extreeme punk and industrial subcultures respectively. Black metal is purely part of the metal subculture and draws alot from the former list. This doesn't make Industrial or Grind any worse but it does make them more 'true' (though I do personaly think grind is idiotic joke music, far more rediculous than the cheesiest power metal))

I thinkt hat most people who use the term are aware of its absurd elitist connotations and like me find it somewhat amusing and endearing.

Lol, you never cease to make me laugh. Wikipedia is open to anyone modifying it and the way 'mellodic' has been spelt leads me to believe that you yourself could have edited it. It's spelt 'melodic' but anyway. Even a universal colloquial definition of true/false metal is meaningless, but I understand you pointed that out. Just concluding.

Yes any idiot can edit wikipedia (I edited that page because someone put heavy metal under 'false metal' for some retarded reason) but do you actualy disagree with that definition at all? to me it's the msot osund description I've read. Or are you just looking to criticise something for criticisms sake?

I know my knowledge of metal is far more extensive than your own but I greatly disagree with the shit you put there and expected better of you. Actually, I didn't because I understand how closed minded you are, so forget that. POS have rapping vocals so I guess they're not true, right? And Kreator's shouts make them false as well? What about Mayhem's DMDS where Attila spoke as opposed to sang/growled/screeched? Influences from folk and classical music, huh. So that immediately rules out Megadeth. As for melodies, I guess we can rule out a number of death metal bands. No solos means a lot of Amon Amarth songs are false. The addition of 'long and progressive song structures' is crossed out with the not required bit - why bother putting it in at all? You should have just left lyrical themes out as well. Oh and as for the metal/warrior image....don't make me laugh (again). By that definition, you wouldn't be a true metaller.

I'm not disagreeing for the sake of criticism I'm disagreeing because it's something a 15 year old could compose in a laughably atrocious attempt at proving their metalness. Seriously, when I was 15 I could have written a better (universal) list on what makes true metal and non-true metal, even though it doesn't really exist.

Written by Daru Jericho on 01.05.2007 at 01:06

Written by [user id=5431] on 29.04.2007 at 14:39

Written by Daru Jericho on 29.04.2007 at 02:44

Written by [user id=5431] on 22.04.2007 at 17:31

Written by BitterCOld on 18.04.2007 at 03:05

Written by [user id=5431] on 14.04.2007 at 16:46

False metal - Metalcore, nu metal
In between - grindcore, sludge, stoner metal, industrial metal, 'faggoth'
True metal - gothic, power, black, folk, death, thrash, heavy, prog, doom, symphonic metal

The ideologies, musical styles, imagery and fanbase of the 2 ends are completely oppossed and oposite ends of 'heavy music'. True metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving (ie ManOwaR, HammerFall, gr1m black metal etc), for a band like Arcturus, who are far more progressive than almost any false metal band, are undeniably 'true'

And trueness does matter, go listen to a BFMV or Slipknot song and you will understand why

Opposed and opposite ends?

How so?

What are the qualities of the music that you are entering into the equation?

"true metal does not mean copying old sounds and not evolving"

How do you classify Darkthrone - or the thousands upon thousands of Darkthrone clones who think they can also be grim, kvlt, and necro by painting their faces, posing for photos and underproducing craptacular music that should never have left the shelter of their basements/garages/caves? Are the Darkthrone Babies "true?"

How is Black Metal - which has simultaneously both stagnated and evolved depending upon one's influences more "true" than Grindcore? Or Industrial metal?


"True Metal" is a term for losers with inadequacy issues who want to simultaneously feel superior about their own musical tastes while slagging the tastes of others.

You misunderstand me, I was implying that 'true metal' can refer to experimental bands (such as Ulver, Arcturus), not just the bands liek Darkthrone and ManOwaR who stick to the same sound. Rather than that 'true metal' bands have to be progressive (obviously not correct)

Most of the heavy music I listen to is 'true metal', but I'm not the kind of narrowminded idiot who thinks anytihng outside it is all 'no talent mallcore garbage!!1!111', I enjoy Neurosis and the very mainstream Rammstein for example.

From Wikipedia:
Factors that typicaly contribute to the True Metal label
Mellodic singing, black metal rasps/screeches or death grunts
Musical influences from folk and classical music
Guitar solos, mellodies and riffs and sometimes keyboards
Long and progressive song structures (not required)
Heathen, mythological, fantasy or historical themes (often, but not always, uplifting)
Metalhead or warrior image

Factors that typicaly contribute to the False Metal label
Vocals including Rapping, post hardcore screams, pop punk style singing and shouted vocals
Musical influences from post hardcore or hip hop
Detuned, simplistic guitar
The use of DJ turntables
Over-reliance on short songs and catchy pop song structures
Teen angst themes
Mallcore, hxc or emo image

I guess I generaly enjoy all the factors in the former list and dislike those in the latter.

Grindcore and Industrial metal do not have factors from either lsit, they are seperate, and are closer to the extreeme punk and industrial subcultures respectively. Black metal is purely part of the metal subculture and draws alot from the former list. This doesn't make Industrial or Grind any worse but it does make them more 'true' (though I do personaly think grind is idiotic joke music, far more rediculous than the cheesiest power metal))

I thinkt hat most people who use the term are aware of its absurd elitist connotations and like me find it somewhat amusing and endearing.

Lol, you never cease to make me laugh. Wikipedia is open to anyone modifying it and the way 'mellodic' has been spelt leads me to believe that you yourself could have edited it. It's spelt 'melodic' but anyway. Even a universal colloquial definition of true/false metal is meaningless, but I understand you pointed that out. Just concluding.

Yes any idiot can edit wikipedia (I edited that page because someone put heavy metal under 'false metal' for some retarded reason) but do you actualy disagree with that definition at all? to me it's the msot osund description I've read. Or are you just looking to criticise something for criticisms sake?

I know my knowledge of metal is far more extensive than your own but I greatly disagree with the shit you put there and expected better of you. Actually, I didn't because I understand how closed minded you are, so forget that. POS have rapping vocals so I guess they're not true, right? And Kreator's shouts make them false as well? What about Mayhem's DMDS where Attila spoke as opposed to sang/growled/screeched? Influences from folk and classical music, huh. So that immediately rules out Megadeth. As for melodies, I guess we can rule out a number of death metal bands. No solos means a lot of Amon Amarth songs are false. The addition of 'long and progressive song structures' is crossed out with the not required bit - why bother putting it in at all? You should have just left lyrical themes out as well. Oh and as for the metal/warrior image....don't make me laugh (again). By that definition, you wouldn't be a true metaller.

I'm not disagreeing for the sake of criticism I'm disagreeing because it's something a 15 year old could compose in a laughably atrocious attempt at proving their metalness. Seriously, when I was 15 I could have written a better (universal) list on what makes true metal and non-true metal, even though it doesn't really exist.

No one said that a metal band *had* to include from the former list, nor could not incluse fromt he latter, which I'm sure you'd been aware of if you hafn' been so desperate to criticise. The concept of being 'nrrow minded' means fuck all as you know, anyone can throw that term around but it's rare they really mean it. It's a list of 'typical features' rather than defining any borders, of ocurse there are countless exceptions but try to find one metal band that fills more of the latter than the former.

If your amazing 19 year old mind can compose a more apt definition, why nto give it a go? As that is after all the whole point of the thread.

Written by [user id=5431] on 01.05.2007 at 20:34


No one said that a metal band *had* to include from the former list, nor could not incluse fromt he latter, which I'm sure you'd been aware of if you hafn' been so desperate to criticise. The concept of being 'nrrow minded' means fuck all as you know, anyone can throw that term around but it's rare they really mean it. It's a list of 'typical features' rather than defining any borders, of ocurse there are countless exceptions but try to find one metal band that fills more of the latter than the former.

If your amazing 19 year old mind can compose a more apt definition, why nto give it a go? As that is after all the whole point of the thread.

Excellent, I've touched a nerve. Hilarious! Ah, the joys of winding up teenagers.

No one said such a thing yet you obviously felt strong enough to redefine Wikipedia about the topic. Additionally, you stand excessively firm in your beliefs about said topic. Your vehement response supports this too. I'll agree with you on one thing though; being 'nrrow minded' does indeed mean fuck all, yet being narrow minded does mean something! You see, if you bothered reading my first topic (yes, I was the one who created this thread) you wouldn't have bothered with half of the things you said. I decided to question your definition because you were convinced that you knew what true metal was, going to the extent of redefining Wikipedia. Be sure to state that they're 'typical' features rather than going on a bitch-rant. You sound like a 15 year old mallcore kid.

I'm beginning to think you don't know me at all. Since when the hell was I 19? You must have confused me with someone else because I'm not even 18 yet. Still got a week to go. As I said, read my first post. I look forward to your submissive reply.

Oh, you should update your Firefox. The new one comes with a spell checker which you obviously need. Please read through your replies before you post them and check spelling errors.

In my opinion "true metal" can't be defined. There are so many opinions how many people are.
But... I would say that "true metal" is that genre or band who carries you away when you hear it for the first time and the all following times. It doesn't matter if it is black, death, progressive or gothic metal. If this music really can touch your heart till it's depths, why not? It is important to like/love/admire that band only because of the reason you like this music not media/your friend/ or some kind of other freak.
It's important to follow your heart and ears, not listen to other overwise talking about metal when in the same time they have no idea about what they are talking. So... Only you know which music is most suitable for you.
As I said, there are so many opinions how many people...

As long as it falls under the genre "Metal", it's "tr00" metal for me.
Wether I like it or not is a different matter.

- Burzum
- Darkthrone
- Mayhem
- Morbid angel
- Deicide
- Immortal
- Emperor
- Demilich
- Averse Sefira
etc ....
that's tr00 for me.. hope you get the picture

But I can't impose my ideas about 'tr00ness' upon others as they'll have theirs. I can only laugh at them for disagreeing with me... hahahah

Written by villain on 11.05.2007 at 16:39

- Burzum
- Darkthrone
- Mayhem
- Morbid angel
- Deicide
- Immortal
- Emperor
- Demilich
- Averse Sefira
etc ....
that's tr00 for me.. hope you get the picture

But I can't impose my ideas about 'tr00ness' upon others as they'll have theirs. I can only laugh at them for disagreeing with me... hahahah

Or maybe you could show a little more maturity?


Anyway, it has become clear that people who like to use the word "True" or "tr00" or anything like that are just trying to make themselves look important. Maybe a self image issue? Not sure. But you don't hear anyone saying "I am only into tr00 South Carolina Blue Grass", do you? No. This seems to be an egocentric Metalhead delema.

Why? are people trying to prove that they are better than someone else because their favorite band happens to be more truer? More truer, is that even proper English? Ah, whatever. In all honesty I don;t care if Immoral is more tr00 than Queensryche. Immortal stills sucks and we'll always have Operation: Mindcrime!

P.S. I only listen to tr00 Upstate New York, Finger Lakes Region Progcore Metal. Nothing else is Metal...

Written by Dane Train on 11.05.2007 at 23:22

Immortal stills sucks and we'll always have Operation: Mindcrime!

Not a very tr00 thing to say.

Well it's all down to opinion and we all know true/tr00/trve is subjective(Queensryche FTW!, although I do love Immortal).

I like to see all of u discussing this term in one room...it will be pretty cite

Operation Mindcrime lol
Anyway, yeah, it is really interesting to read this thread, but I still think that it is pointless, they show put this topic under humour

Written by Dane Train on 11.05.2007 at 23:22

Written by villain on 11.05.2007 at 16:39

- Burzum
- Darkthrone
- Mayhem
- Morbid angel
- Deicide
- Immortal
- Emperor
- Demilich
- Averse Sefira
etc ....
that's tr00 for me.. hope you get the picture

But I can't impose my ideas about 'tr00ness' upon others as they'll have theirs. I can only laugh at them for disagreeing with me... hahahah

Or maybe you could show a little more maturity?


Anyway, it has become clear that people who like to use the word "True" or "tr00" or anything like that are just trying to make themselves look important. Maybe a self image issue? Not sure. But you don't hear anyone saying "I am only into tr00 South Carolina Blue Grass", do you? No. This seems to be an egocentric Metalhead delema.

Why? are people trying to prove that they are better than someone else because their favorite band happens to be more truer? More truer, is that even proper English? Ah, whatever. In all honesty I don;t care if Immoral is more tr00 than Queensryche. Immortal stills sucks and we'll always have Operation: Mindcrime!

P.S. I only listen to tr00 Upstate New York, Finger Lakes Region Progcore Metal. Nothing else is Metal...

tr00ness requires close mindedness
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