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The original post

Posted by Black Winter on 11.03.2008 at 21:55
Since the old thread had exceeded its limits,here is a new thread to continue some of the previous discutions,please post a logic and a meaningful contributions and try to avoid all kinds of extremism and disrespectful remarks.
I myself will try to contribute meaningfully to clarify some points .



Page 47 of 47

deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4903
From: Australia

  13.01.2015 at 02:28
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 13.01.2015 at 02:22

She hasn't been an MP for 8 years now due to the fact she had to resign due to the validity of her Dutch citizenship.


I thought I said "former" in my blurb?
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 37168

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  13.01.2015 at 02:49
Written by deadone on 13.01.2015 at 02:28

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 13.01.2015 at 02:22

She hasn't been an MP for 8 years now due to the fact she had to resign due to the validity of her Dutch citizenship.


I thought I said "former" in my blurb?



Just checked and nope, you just said "and Dutch MP". I f you had said former I wouldn't have quoted you, trust me.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4903
From: Australia

  13.01.2015 at 02:51
My bad - I have corrected.

Very brave woman.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 37168

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  13.01.2015 at 03:27
Written by deadone on 13.01.2015 at 02:51

My bad - I have corrected.

Very brave woman.



tbh I was bummed when she had to resign. I had voted for Ayaan on quite a few occassions being part of my party.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4903
From: Australia

  13.01.2015 at 05:27
Turns out building snowmen is un-Islamic as is naming your perfume " Strawberries and Champagne." Well this is according to at least one prominent Saudi Salafist cleric (snowmen) and the Qatari government (same scumbos that support terrorists that even the Saudis and Emiris find distasteful):

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=393836
Rasputin

Posts: 273
From: USA
  14.01.2015 at 22:41
EU will burn by the end, this is just heating up. Not to support the insane Turkish politician, but the more I look at this the more I keep thinking that something is just off with this whole thing. I would at least concede with the idiot that the Intelligence knew what these idiots were doing. To make things interesting, the two shooters were trained by the NATO/CIA forces and sent to fight in Syria against Assad, then they were moved around. Plus, the third shooter had lunch with Sarkozy in the past. More things keep surfacing, but no one is covering that. This does not switch my logical conclusion that Islam never was, and never will be a religion of peace, and that the "moderate" and "radical" Muslim is a distinction of the West, which means very little.

You don't know what is worse, the "uneducated" Muslim or the "educated" one, because no matter what, the uneducated can be swayed very easily into terrorism while the educated may find himself even more radicalized by the "holly book."
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4903
From: Australia

  15.01.2015 at 00:40
Written by Rasputin on 14.01.2015 at 22:41

EU will burn by the end


I think EU will collapse but not only because of Islam but rather because the EU doesn't really work and because EU integrationism was reversed when the Dutch and French voted against the EU constitution. Since then EU has collapsed economically with only Germany propping most of it's economies up. Greece is teetering on the edge and the British are over it.

The EU was never going to work as a unified nation/federation and it was always going to struggle economically as it grew:

1. A lot of people don't like the undermining of national sovereignty, especially to what is considered by many to be an incompetent bureaucracy in Brussels.

And when economies fail, nationalism and scapegoating emerge.


2. EU partners states have extremely differing economic needs. For example the less developed EU states require low interest rates to keep economic growth chugging along whilst the more developed ones require higher interest rates to keep inflation low.

This makes economic and monetary policy difficult to implement and will always cause friction.

3. The integration of Eastern Europe drew in a lot of undeveloped economies with massive problems - lack of appropriate regulatory mechanisms, massive corruption, unstable democratic systems (e.g. Hungary and Bulgaria) and decades worth of engrained economic inefficiencies. Some also have questionable human rights records that have been unresolved (Croatia and it's ethnic cleansing of Serbs, Latvia and Estonia with their discriminated Russian minorities).

Basically they let in a whole heap of Greek type economies in.


4. EU promotes gross economic inefficiency e.g. Common Agircultural Policy subsidies which promote extremely innefficient agricultural practices. This costs the governments a lot of money and arguably has some impact on cost of fresh food and creates massive waste.
mz

Posts: 2924

Age: 24


  15.01.2015 at 01:18
Great article
I suggest deadone and Rasputin have a look at it.
----
Giving my ears a rest from music.
Alex Fenger
Method Man

Posts: 2666

Age: 18
From: USA

  15.01.2015 at 01:21
Written by mz on 15.01.2015 at 01:18

Great article
I suggest deadone and Rasputin have a look at it.

Recently read that and I have to agree with you 100%... although I would say everyone should read it
Candlemass
Defaeco

Posts: 582
From: Israel

  15.01.2015 at 02:18
Written by mz on 15.01.2015 at 01:18

Great article
I suggest deadone and Rasputin have a look at it.


Lies damn lies and statistics.
Grouping acts of ideological vandalism and suicide bombings or beheadings? How many people were killed in the EU (referring to the less than 2 percent link) the last few years by religiously motivated Muslims compared to any other ideological group?
Grouping car accidents and ideological murders? Car accidents tragically happen, society tries best to prevent them, yet they don't target political/social structures or threat specific people for drawing cartoons/film who disobey religious blasphemy laws.
No other ideological has managed to get a country like France to mobilize 88,000 troops on its own soil and constantly raise UK's terror threat.

No, Islamic religious extremists isn't the be all and end all of security threats (in particular not in quantity), but is most definitely one of the most severe, if not the most.
----
Twelve Virtues of Rationality
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4903
From: Australia

  15.01.2015 at 05:09
Written by mz on 15.01.2015 at 01:18

Great article
I suggest deadone and Rasputin have a look at it.



1. Nothing new to me. In case you didn't notice I was referring to Red Army Faction before! I took terrorism studies at University as part of my second degree over a decade ago.

2. I never said all terrorists were muslims.

3. All my points about Islam are about cultural incompatibility between many branches of Islam and modern secularism (be it Western liberal democratic or nationalist or authoritarian) as well as non-Islamic cultures. The article actually shows this is with references to violence against muslims in places like Sri Lanka, Myanmar etc etc

I also argue that Islam was never a peaceful religion but rather an all encompassing authoritarian system of human existence with a propensity towards violence and whose values are extremely outdated by the standards of the rest of the world.

4. Muslim terrorism (and other forms of violence) is an expression of this incompatibility. As are in (Australia at least) calls for sharia, failure and unwillingness by many Muslims to participate in let alone integrate into mainstream society, lack of "moderate" muslim support on anti-terror laws, attempts at blackmailing government and media by "moderate" muslims whenever they consider anything "anti-Muslim" or any respect for Western legal systems (e.g. honour killings, child brides etc etc) or Western values ala gender equality, freedom of religion, freedom of sexuality etc etc.

5. A lot of anti-Islamic feeling is not about terrorism. It's about perceived Islamification of the West through immigration, conversion and high birth rates.

The terrorism actually helps ferment anti-Islamic feeling.


6. The word "terrorism" is overused. Not many terrorists in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is a lot of insurgents though.
Candlemass
Defaeco

Posts: 582
From: Israel

  15.01.2015 at 15:24
A comic relief, this guy has "followers".
----
Twelve Virtues of Rationality
Mr. Doctor
Ghostface Killah

Posts: 15458

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  15.01.2015 at 20:23
My face while reading that link about the neckbeard dude was literally the same as your avatar.
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
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Rasputin

Posts: 273
From: USA
  15.01.2015 at 23:31
Written by deadone on 15.01.2015 at 00:40

Written by Rasputin on 14.01.2015 at 22:41

EU will burn by the end


I think EU will collapse but not only because of Islam but rather because the EU doesn't really work and because EU integrationism was reversed when the Dutch and French voted against the EU constitution. Since then EU has collapsed economically with only Germany propping most of it's economies up. Greece is teetering on the edge and the British are over it.

The EU was never going to work as a unified nation/federation and it was always going to struggle economically as it grew:

1. A lot of people don't like the undermining of national sovereignty, especially to what is considered by many to be an incompetent bureaucracy in Brussels.

And when economies fail, nationalism and scapegoating emerge.


2. EU partners states have extremely differing economic needs. For example the less developed EU states require low interest rates to keep economic growth chugging along whilst the more developed ones require higher interest rates to keep inflation low.

This makes economic and monetary policy difficult to implement and will always cause friction.

3. The integration of Eastern Europe drew in a lot of undeveloped economies with massive problems - lack of appropriate regulatory mechanisms, massive corruption, unstable democratic systems (e.g. Hungary and Bulgaria) and decades worth of engrained economic inefficiencies. Some also have questionable human rights records that have been unresolved (Croatia and it's ethnic cleansing of Serbs, Latvia and Estonia with their discriminated Russian minorities).

Basically they let in a whole heap of Greek type economies in.


4. EU promotes gross economic inefficiency e.g. Common Agircultural Policy subsidies which promote extremely innefficient agricultural practices. This costs the governments a lot of money and arguably has some impact on cost of fresh food and creates massive waste.

I agree. I am just saying that before that massive collapse happens and fragmentation, we will see an increase in terrorist activity, because they will not go down peacefully. This also begs the question, when the economy shatters, and for some of its members it is already not looking too good, how long will it be before various factions take the advantage of it, and piggy back their agendas. We saw Muslim fundamentalism when Yugoslavia fragmented, I would not expect anything less, especially from the people who moved from very rigorous backgrounds and very basic teachings. Either way, it does not look good.

People keep complaining about the rise of NAZI groups, which I think is the result of what you listed already, however it is also part xenophobia (some it justified) and part of the Muslims not conforming and embracing the culture and country they moved to. So each feed each other.


As far as the article is concerned, it is bullshit. Yes, we have other terrorists running around, but while those terrorists operate like IRA did on a national level, Muslims operate in almost every country, and when you check the dead body toll, it is really not that hard to see who causes the most damage, and who should be watched the most. Muslims want Islam to dominate the world, while other groups want separation or dominance in their countries exclusevely with some exceptions of course.

You and I deadone kept saying and explaining, and people just don't want to admit and get it. We don't care that not all Muslims are terrorists, we care that the core teaching, the base of their belief is driven by death and hate, and that ends any discussion. There are no Moderates and there are no radicals, there are only Muslims, period.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4903
From: Australia

  16.01.2015 at 00:04
Written by Candlemass on 15.01.2015 at 15:24

A comic relief, this guy has "followers".



I don't think ISIS will conquer Europe. I think simple demographics will allow Islam to become the dominant religion in Western Europe over the next 100 years. Muslim populations are growing rapidly whilst the European populations are largely dwindling and will start dropping massively as the older post-WWII generations start dying off.

Where it will be really interesting is if at some point Islamification hits an exponential growth rate. Basically as Muslims become more powerful in Europe, will it get to the stage locals start converting en masse to Islam in order to be able to retain rights, get access to job opportunities, avoid discrimination etc etc. There's also potential increase in conversion rates if Islamic thought creeps into schools (again possible as society shifts from secular liberal to Islamic religious). This would destroy secularism very quickly.

There is precedence for this kind of exponential conversion in the past in both Christianity and Islam. Albanian and Bosnian muslims are a great example of it.

I don't think the Europeans will cease Islamic immigration any time soon. In fact as the population ages they will ramp it up. And once Muslims gain true voting power, they will probably allow Turkey into EU and open up immigration even more. They don't have to gain a majority to have voting power. Simply being a large and growing minority is often enough.
Rasputin

Posts: 273
From: USA
  16.01.2015 at 00:20
Again deadone, great point. This goes back to what I was saying before, they are nice and peaceful until they get the numbers. I doubt that caused any ruckus in Australia initially, until they got their own zones where if you are not a Muslim you are in deep shit. I just read an article, I will see if I can find it, in USA there is a city where non Muslim women have to cover their hair because the bus station is so close to the Muslim ghetto. This is just unacceptable, but it still happens because liberals scream bloody murder, they protect the ones who will oppress them in the end. Allegedly, aside from the known Muslim stronghold in Dearborn Michigan, they have a large community in Texas, California, Pennsylvania and New York, which is slowly but surely turning into a "no go" zone. Coincidence, I think not.

I keep asking people to explain that to me, and they simply cannot because they have no information, they draw a wrong parallel between Xtianity and Islam, and they believe that it was hijacked by these terrorists, but it is funny how much cognitive dissonance occurs, even when you show them the verses of violence where Muhammad himself demands death of non believers. I have never seen so much stupidity. Not to sound like a skinhead or anything, but the white race is already becoming the minority, because of those demographics where less and less white people in EU and other places are reproducing. I hate to see the world 30 years from now, it will look like shit.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4903
From: Australia

  16.01.2015 at 05:29
There was a gun battle in Belgium between Islamist terroristws and police - 2 terrorists killed. The most shocking thing IMO is that Brussels in 25.5% Muslim (Belgium as a whole is 6%). Another great example of Islamification of Europe. Imagine how Belgian policy is going to Islamify as the population of Brussels gets more and more Islamic (and thus the bureaucracy Islamifies). This can be done subtly - shifts of funding or subtle changes to policies and procedures which favour Muslims. In Australia they're doing this with a pro-Christian and anti-secular stance (though 1950s christianity is far less scary than conservative Islam) or pro-private sector slants.

Also a French police officer was deliberately run over. However this one is unclear as to motive. Given recent events and apparently 6 terror suspects being at large, the motive could be Islamist.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4903
From: Australia

  16.01.2015 at 05:47
And lastly some very old observations of Islam from prominent western thinkers dating back to as as early as 18th century:

http://www.commdiginews.com/world-news/history-greatest-thinkers-islamic-extremism-33385/

What we're dealing with is a centuries old and has in many ways not moved on since 622 AD!

Indeed the best line comes from Sir William Muir (19th century historian):

Quote:
As a Reformer, Mahomet did advance his people to a certain point, but as a Prophet he left them fixed immovably at that point for all time to come."


And Churchill whose obsession with Middle East is well known:

Quote:
The Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness. The more generous spirits become convulsed in an ecstasy of religious bloodthirstiness…and derive additional impulses from the influence of others, the hopes of plunder and the joy of fighting. Thus whole nations are roused to arms."
BitterCOld
AVBFTY

Posts: 12770

Age: 42
From: Paraguay

  17.01.2015 at 04:11
Not going to linger or revisit this thread, don't feel like getting terribly engaged.

a Saudi cleric gives us all a reason to laugh by declaring a fucking fatwa on building snowmen.

Snowmen.

imagine if some infidel were to sculpt a snow woman.
----
get the fuck off my lawn.
Rasputin

Posts: 273
From: USA
  17.01.2015 at 05:15
Written by deadone on 16.01.2015 at 05:47

And lastly some very old observations of Islam from prominent western thinkers dating back to as as early as 18th century:

http://www.commdiginews.com/world-news/history-greatest-thinkers-islamic-extremism-33385/

What we're dealing with is a centuries old and has in many ways not moved on since 622 AD!

Indeed the best line comes from Sir William Muir (19th century historian):

Quote:
As a Reformer, Mahomet did advance his people to a certain point, but as a Prophet he left them fixed immovably at that point for all time to come."


And Churchill whose obsession with Middle East is well known:

Quote:
The Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness. The more generous spirits become convulsed in an ecstasy of religious bloodthirstiness…and derive additional impulses from the influence of others, the hopes of plunder and the joy of fighting. Thus whole nations are roused to arms."


Excellent historical reference. I am not fan of Churchill, but I wonder where the hell are the other people in power that think like him? I don't think the majority of politicians have read enough books or any books for that matter aside from prescribed Political Science and whatnot reading.

And to comment Cold's comment, that is what I was talking about, if at whim, you can issue a "fatwa" what is stopping you to issue one that is far worse? Even if for a second we say that Islam dominates any country in EU, and let's say that all of them are "moderates" as the West and dumbass liberals like to call them, does anyone truly expect and believe that they will step in and stop the "radical" Muslims from doing mass murder, rape or terrorism? They have not done it in any country in the world, they sure as fuck do no look like they will start now. But, oh wait, we have "protests' and slogan chanting, that will regrow someones head and heal the injured, burned or stoned woman or non muslim.

Right.

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