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The original post

Posted by Black Winter on 11.03.2008 at 21:55
Since the old thread had exceeded its limits,here is a new thread to continue some of the previous discutions,please post a logic and a meaningful contributions and try to avoid all kinds of extremism and disrespectful remarks.
I myself will try to contribute meaningfully to clarify some points .



Page 40 of 40

Candlemass
Defaeco

Posts: 550
From: Israel

  15.12.2014 at 09:54
Written by deadone on 15.12.2014 at 01:57

Well just to prove my point about worthless muslims contributing nothing but violence in Australia, another Islamic attack is happening just now.

These people need to be kicked out of the country. They are our enemies.


You maybe don't like religion, maybe 'Islam' especially, but not all Muslims (neither support) have taken hostages on a Monday morning (Sunday morning?).
----
Twelve Virtues of Rationality
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38737

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  15.12.2014 at 17:44
It will be interesting read dead one comments today after events
----
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Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36850

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  15.12.2014 at 19:25
Written by Bad English on 15.12.2014 at 17:44

It will be interesting read dead one comments today after events


No, it won't. We already know where that will be going.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Rasputin

Posts: 236
From: USA
  15.12.2014 at 23:38
@Mary

But of course, Muslims were in no way ever suicidal in their actions, right? No explosive vests or ramming themselves into buildings. No one says that these fuckers are smart, because Islam does not require for you to be smart, just obedient.

I am yet to see something positive coming from the Islamic community that is not a ploy, like some Muslims down there volunteering to be exchanged for hostages, a perfect example of protecting Islam by any means necessary to include their own lives since it is a great feat to "spend one day in battle for Allah, than all the years of peace" or some shit like that.

More friendly and tolerant Muslims coming near you. Invest in body bags and coffins since Allah is Merciful
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36850

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  16.12.2014 at 00:09
So you must also hate Japanese for ALL their kamikazi actions.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4593
From: Australia

  16.12.2014 at 00:53
Written by Ozman on 16.12.2014 at 00:09

So you must also hate Japanese for ALL their kamikazi actions.



For what it's worth, the Japanese did engage in brutal stuff right down to individual level. It was part of their society.

And the Germans gladly followed Hiter down his merry path right up to the point the Red Army was waving a Soviet flag from the Reichstag.

We can say the same about many Cambodians during Pol Pots era or whatever.



In today's world, we like to pretend "evil" is perpetrated by some lone deranged individuals. It's not. It can be done at massed level and be perfectly acceptable.

And arguably it's only "evil" in our eyes. 1,000 years ago it was fine to annihilate one's enemies and enslave those. Just like many (not all) Muslims think it's fine to marry 9 year olds, or kill their female members for dishonouring them.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4593
From: Australia

  16.12.2014 at 02:12
Written by Mary N. on 15.12.2014 at 09:41

Dear deadone, there is a funny idiom in Farsi as it says : "coloring a donkey" which completely defines the incident you posted above and the way it was reported. It's really funny, pay closer attention to the event : 1. The person enters the cafe ( only one person !) and commits hostage taking with weapons reportedly.
2. A cafe right in the middle of town
3. Then a big number of police rushes into the cafe
4. For what on Earth, someone commits such idiotic hostage
5. What was the exact purpose of it
6.The hostage taker couldn't even dream of growing magical wings and fly out of the cafe with the hostages
7. So what was the outcome of such action ? Just putting the hostage taker at risk of getting arrested and then harshest punishments ?
Come on wake up, you're watching the most perfect show evar written down for your simple minds. Go deeper down to the issues. There's much bigger plans for us.



No one said Islamists were smart (though some are)..

This guy was a known Islamic nutcase - was involed with the murder of his ex-wife (looks like an honour killing), protests against the government and was sending nasty letters to families of dead Australian soldiers.


Nice to see you've taken up the Iranian pastime of conspiracy theories - I'm sure it involves Zionists, the Great Satan and aliens.
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36850

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  16.12.2014 at 02:32
Written by Mary N. on 15.12.2014 at 09:41

Dear deadone, there is a funny idiom in Farsi as it says : "coloring a donkey" which completely defines the incident you posted above and the way it was reported. It's really funny, pay closer attention to the event : 1. The person enters the cafe ( only one person !) and commits hostage taking with weapons reportedly.
2. A cafe right in the middle of town
3. Then a big number of police rushes into the cafe
4. For what on Earth, someone commits such idiotic hostage
5. What was the exact purpose of it
6.The hostage taker couldn't even dream of growing magical wings and fly out of the cafe with the hostages
7. So what was the outcome of such action ? Just putting the hostage taker at risk of getting arrested and then harshest punishments ?
Come on wake up, you're watching the most perfect show evar written down for your simple minds. Go deeper down to the issues. There's much bigger plans for us.


Sorry, but are you really suggesting this hostage taking was staged by non-Muslims to discret Muslims?

Yeah, right and 911 was also an inside job. Keep on dreaming.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38737

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  16.12.2014 at 02:46
Written by Ozman on 16.12.2014 at 02:32



Sorry, but are you really suggesting this hostage taking was staged by non-Muslims to discret Muslims?

Yeah, right and 911 was also an inside job. Keep on dreaming.


I agree whit you 100%
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Mary N.
Evil Butterfly

Posts: 1803


  16.12.2014 at 06:59
If it's not white then it's black ! Thank you, once again I'm attached by you to something that I have nothing in common with it. It's fucking disappointing!

911 is competently different story and who really talked about it ! No ! Unlike you guys I am not into generalizing and instead I am into analyzing every event separately regardless of where I came from and what is trying to b shoved to my fucking head.

Yes ! Suggesting,it means it's possible, maybe and I'm simply asking questions to evaluate the authenticy of things we know

----
The Fangirl.
no one

Posts: 2510

Age: 31
From: New Zealand

  16.12.2014 at 08:51
I feel for the people trying to escape there shitty countries with there shitty religions and start a new life, but then instantly being bundled in to a the "terrorist" category and told to fuck off.

I myself see religion as a way to live, usually a way to live better and improve your life, sometimes a supernatural being is used as a tool to help. Even though religion is the cause of a lot conflict and war, it actually helps a lot of people out and saves peoples lives. It's easy to pass off religion as a bad thing, especially when all you here about in the media is the bad and hypocritical things that happen, you never hear about the good things like when people turn around there fucked up lives from, drug abuse, anger problems, and so on. Whether it's bull shit or not what they believe, it helped them change there lives and become better people.
Religions not always a bad thing, just saying.
----
hipster fag
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 1916

Age: 28
From: Australia

  16.12.2014 at 12:55
Written by no one on 16.12.2014 at 08:51

I feel for the people trying to escape there shitty countries with there shitty religions and start a new life, but then instantly being bundled in to a the "terrorist" category and told to fuck off.

I myself see religion as a way to live, usually a way to live better and improve your life, sometimes a supernatural being is used as a tool to help. Even though religion is the cause of a lot conflict and war, it actually helps a lot of people out and saves peoples lives. It's easy to pass off religion as a bad thing, especially when all you here about in the media is the bad and hypocritical things that happen, you never hear about the good things like when people turn around there fucked up lives from, drug abuse, anger problems, and so on. Whether it's bull shit or not what they believe, it helped them change there lives and become better people.
Religions not always a bad thing, just saying.

Shh. That kind of sensible talk will get you in trouble 'round here.
----
"I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "How does he know what I'm thinking?" Well I know everything, and so does your internet service provider."
"I can hope my ass is made of ice cream, but that don't m
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38737

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  16.12.2014 at 14:55
Written by no one on 16.12.2014 at 08:51

I feel for the people trying to escape there shitty countries with there shitty religions and start a new life, but then instantly being bundled in to a the "terrorist" category and told to fuck off.



many don't they keep living like they did there, men abuse women and women has no rights until some govements start to some programs
many arabs from saudia and African muslims live like there .... in place where we have midnight sun , some children died and family was hospitalized, because in Ramadan you can eat after dark , but in Kiruna there is sunshine 24/7 like 2 months and half
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38737

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  16.12.2014 at 14:58
About inside job, well I would ask if Pakistanian govement gets US money and weapons , why when US decide send SEAL team alone whit out informing Pakistanian leaders, why OB was found and killed dead ? why when US said there will be operation , non OB dude was found? I still ont get why support Pakistan when you can support India , what can be trusted allay in a region.
Then when OB dude was killed, guy who rated him out was sentenced to jail .... seems Pakistanians liked OB dude

and same time this
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/woman-arrested-in-saudi-arabia-arrested-after-dressing-as-man-to-watch-game-184422239.html
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4593
From: Australia

  16.12.2014 at 15:21
Written by no one on 16.12.2014 at 08:51

I feel for the people trying to escape there shitty countries with there shitty religions and start a new life, but then instantly being bundled in to a the "terrorist" category and told to fuck off.


Maybe if they didn't go out of their way to be hostile to us, if some of them and their kids didn't become jihads/terrorists, if they respected our laws and culture.

You don't hear us going on about Greek or Maltese or Chinese or Vietnamese migrants now do you?

Quote:

I myself see religion as a way to live, usually a way to live better and improve your life, sometimes a supernatural being is used as a tool to help. Even though religion is the cause of a lot conflict and war, it actually helps a lot of people out and saves peoples lives. It's easy to pass off religion as a bad thing, especially when all you here about in the media is the bad and hypocritical things that happen, you never hear about the good things like when people turn around there fucked up lives from, drug abuse, anger problems, and so on. Whether it's bull shit or not what they believe, it helped them change there lives and become better people.
Religions not always a bad thing, just saying.



Totally understand where you are coming from.

The only problem here is that Islam has a lot of rules that are completely incompatible with western values - inbuilt massive gender inequality, religious intolerance, lack of personal choice and clauses relating to application of violence.

Then there's the cultural things bolted on over the centuries - death for atheists, apostates, homosexuals, honour killings, genital mutilation. Peodophilia was inbuilt from the start (Mohhammad married a 9 year old)

Now Islam is varied but most Muslims don't live in first world countries or first world standards where modern ideas have filtered through. Hence in Pakistan it's quite acceptable for an enraged mob to want to kill a Downs syndrome kid for allegedly defacing the Koran. And a lot that do have access to better lives seem to be choosing Islamism and where possible voting for more Islamist political parties ala Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood), Turkey (Erdogan and co) and Malaysia (Pan Malaysian Islamist Party).


And unlike Christianity which got separated from daily life over centuries, Islam has actually been increasing.

In essence I don't see Islam contributing much good to human society since the 1970s when large chunks of it started heading backwards. In fact it's main product is strife.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4593
From: Australia

  16.12.2014 at 15:34
Written by M C Vice on 16.12.2014 at 12:55


Shh. That kind of sensible talk will get you in trouble 'round here.



In real life "sensibility" generally gets one dominated by another less sensible type. Power resides with those that are driven by "non sensible" values. This doesn't apply just to religion but anything - money, power, hate.

It's why humans are always led by what are essentially power hungry selfish arseholes.

And whilst some in West like to think we're all happy and live together, the world is changing and they're not even noticing. The West is deindustrialising whilst importing large numbers of belligerent religious types to offset low birth rates. We no longer call the shots - the Asians, the Russians ad the Arabs are. We are reactive. We are crippled by indecision and political correctness and bureaucracy gone mad. We adhere to values at the expense of ourselves - nationalism/patriotism is regarded as bad and we must let everyone into our countries and let them live however the like even if it violates the values we so dearly hold on to.

We forgot it's a dog eat dog world.

I feel like I'm living in the fall of Rome. We essentially squandered the gift we got in 1991 when USSR collapsed. Got too lazy, too greedy and too myopic whilst others chipped away at our foundations.
Rasputin

Posts: 236
From: USA
  16.12.2014 at 17:20
Written by Ozman on 16.12.2014 at 02:32

Written by Mary N. on 15.12.2014 at 09:41

Dear deadone, there is a funny idiom in Farsi as it says : "coloring a donkey" which completely defines the incident you posted above and the way it was reported. It's really funny, pay closer attention to the event : 1. The person enters the cafe ( only one person !) and commits hostage taking with weapons reportedly.
2. A cafe right in the middle of town
3. Then a big number of police rushes into the cafe
4. For what on Earth, someone commits such idiotic hostage
5. What was the exact purpose of it
6.The hostage taker couldn't even dream of growing magical wings and fly out of the cafe with the hostages
7. So what was the outcome of such action ? Just putting the hostage taker at risk of getting arrested and then harshest punishments ?
Come on wake up, you're watching the most perfect show evar written down for your simple minds. Go deeper down to the issues. There's much bigger plans for us.


Sorry, but are you really suggesting this hostage taking was staged by non-Muslims to discret Muslims?

Yeah, right and 911 was also an inside job. Keep on dreaming.

Well, 9/11 was an inside job, that should be clear as day to anyone who has done any research, we are just wondering about the extent of it. False Flag operations are nothing new. But we digress.

Everything that deadone is saying is correct. We are dealing with a death cult, that in some areas is still dormant, but the slightest thing can ignite the spark. Islam cannot be compared to Christianity at all, one was evolved the other one has digressed even deeper in the radical mindset. The instances of this kind of violence will not cease, I just can't fathom people still defending Islam and telling us that we are wrong. Like I said before, the only reason muslims are peaceful in some EU countries and the USA is because they do not constitute a majority. However, I am still waiting for an explanation in the case of Dearborn Michigan, where there are 30000 Muslims, that basically pushed every Non Muslim out, and have their own regulations, I even hear that Sharia is in full force over there, but I can't verify that yet. So, any of you Muslim defenders and Islam supporters, how did this come to be if the Muslims only want to integrate into the Western society?
Vombatus
Title

Posts: 1519
From: Spain

  16.12.2014 at 18:44
I think everyone on this thread gets the point that radical islamists who don't want to integrate in western socities and prefer Sharia and all their crap are a danger for all. No fucking need to write a paragraphe about it in every single post. Jesus, talk about beating a dead horse.
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38737

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  16.12.2014 at 19:14
Written by Vombatus on 16.12.2014 at 18:44

I think everyone on this thread gets the point that radical islamists who don't want to integrate in western socities and prefer Sharia and all their crap are a danger for all. No fucking need to write a paragraphe about it in every single post. Jesus, talk about beating a dead horse.


when Ivan created MSv4 this layout ppl was resisting and wanted MSv3 back
pll resist to new things, but I will turn it this way... we force to ppl change, westernized , whit I net, tv, films, guns .. isn't it decimation?
Same time do you think Europe wont be same as medieval ages if there wont be Martin Luter and reformation? we got our freedom when church as separated from state and don't dictate us how to live, and look what happen how still powerful are Church in Spain and Portugal ...

same time Afga is better place after NATO attack, ppl has hopes, education, women has rights and so on , one place where attack helped,
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Candlemass
Defaeco

Posts: 550
From: Israel

  16.12.2014 at 19:48
Written by Vombatus on 16.12.2014 at 18:44

I think everyone on this thread gets the point that radical islamists who don't want to integrate in western socities and prefer Sharia and all their crap are a danger for all. No fucking need to write a paragraphe about it in every single post. Jesus, talk about beating a dead horse.


More like a triviality.
The questions where it comes from and what to do with it are much less trivial and are pretty much what the discussions revolve around.

Parts of the European left publish jihadist apologetics - blaming "the powerful" and out-right romantizing 'minority' violence, while Muslim reformists (those moderates who some people have trouble finding, and when found seem to be totally ignored), like Maajid Nawaz, condemn it out-right:
"126 killed, including at least 84 children. If grievances radicalise Muslims against things, can we now get radicalised against the Pakistani Taliban & their Islamist ideology?"
Another one:
"126 dead, roughly 84 of them children. No, it is not sufficient merely condemning this latest Taliban school attack. How low has our bar sunk? All of us must uproot the entire Islamist ideology, completely."
Or his latest:
"Taliban jihadists kill 126, among them 84 children, but apparently we must stop calling them Islamists, we must "understand" why they're so angry, and "the West" must say sorry."

What's the difference? One is actually willing to grapple the problem and sees people from his own background - as people - and does not patronize them as objects. Some Europeans actually believe that ideology is a matter of "education" and "social class" while ignoring any cognitive aspect - upbringing, culture, religion, biography, type of education, the incitement, the deluded worldview and press - all those things which play an active role in our decision making - because they will be seen as "racist".

And again, who are those who suffer from it? Not the European bourgeoisies - the spoilt ethnocentric appeasers, who have zero experience in things they like to gossip about while the tea cools down. the less fortunate will.
----
Twelve Virtues of Rationality
no one

Posts: 2510

Age: 31
From: New Zealand

  16.12.2014 at 20:10
Written by deadone on 16.12.2014 at 15:21

Written by no one on 16.12.2014 at 08:51

I feel for the people trying to escape there shitty countries with there shitty religions and start a new life, but then instantly being bundled in to a the "terrorist" category and told to fuck off.

Quote:
Maybe if they didn't go out of their way to be hostile to us, if some of them and their kids didn't become jihads/terrorists, if they respected our laws and culture.

You don't hear us going on about Greek or Maltese or Chinese or Vietnamese migrants now do you?


it's because those migrants people aren't in the paper doing terrorist acts everyday

there are some people coming over these ways to believe in religions they aren't allowed to believe in there own country or just to start a new life with no religion at all, people who really value the way we live and want to become a part of it.

Quote:

I myself see religion as a way to live, usually a way to live better and improve your life, sometimes a supernatural being is used as a tool to help. Even though religion is the cause of a lot conflict and war, it actually helps a lot of people out and saves peoples lives. It's easy to pass off religion as a bad thing, especially when all you here about in the media is the bad and hypocritical things that happen, you never hear about the good things like when people turn around there fucked up lives from, drug abuse, anger problems, and so on. Whether it's bull shit or not what they believe, it helped them change there lives and become better people.
Religions not always a bad thing, just saying.



Totally understand where you are coming from.

The only problem here is that Islam has a lot of rules that are completely incompatible with western values - inbuilt massive gender inequality, religious intolerance, lack of personal choice and clauses relating to application of violence.

Then there's the cultural things bolted on over the centuries - death for atheists, apostates, homosexuals, honour killings, genital mutilation. Peodophilia was inbuilt from the start (Mohhammad married a 9 year old)

Now Islam is varied but most Muslims don't live in first world countries or first world standards where modern ideas have filtered through. Hence in Pakistan it's quite acceptable for an enraged mob to want to kill a Downs syndrome kid for allegedly defacing the Koran. And a lot that do have access to better lives seem to be choosing Islamism and where possible voting for more Islamist political parties ala Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood), Turkey (Erdogan and co) and Malaysia (Pan Malaysian Islamist Party).


And unlike Christianity which got separated from daily life over centuries, Islam has actually been increasing.

In essence I don't see Islam contributing much good to human society since the 1970s when large chunks of it started heading backwards. In fact it's main product is strife.


well obviously islams not a good religion, i was just going by something you said earlier about there being no need for any religion or something like that
----
hipster fag
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 4593
From: Australia

  17.12.2014 at 00:11
Written by Candlemass on 16.12.2014 at 19:48

Written by Vombatus on 16.12.2014 at 18:44

I think everyone on this thread gets the point that radical islamists who don't want to integrate in western socities and prefer Sharia and all their crap are a danger for all. No fucking need to write a paragraphe about it in every single post. Jesus, talk about beating a dead horse.


More like a triviality.
The questions where it comes from and what to do with it are much less trivial and are pretty much what the discussions revolve around.

Parts of the European left publish jihadist apologetics - blaming "the powerful" and out-right romantizing 'minority' violence, while Muslim reformists (those moderates who some people have trouble finding, and when found seem to be totally ignored), like Maajid Nawaz, condemn it out-right:
"126 killed, including at least 84 children. If grievances radicalise Muslims against things, can we now get radicalised against the Pakistani Taliban & their Islamist ideology?"
Another one:
"126 dead, roughly 84 of them children. No, it is not sufficient merely condemning this latest Taliban school attack. How low has our bar sunk? All of us must uproot the entire Islamist ideology, completely."
Or his latest:
"Taliban jihadists kill 126, among them 84 children, but apparently we must stop calling them Islamists, we must "understand" why they're so angry, and "the West" must say sorry."

What's the difference? One is actually willing to grapple the problem and sees people from his own background - as people - and does not patronize them as objects. Some Europeans actually believe that ideology is a matter of "education" and "social class" while ignoring any cognitive aspect - upbringing, culture, religion, biography, type of education, the incitement, the deluded worldview and press - all those things which play an active role in our decision making - because they will be seen as "racist".

And again, who are those who suffer from it? Not the European bourgeoisies - the spoilt ethnocentric appeasers, who have zero experience in things they like to gossip about while the tea cools down. the less fortunate will.



Excellent post.
Vombatus
Title

Posts: 1519
From: Spain

  17.12.2014 at 14:45
Written by Candlemass on 16.12.2014 at 19:48

More like a triviality.
The questions where it comes from and what to do with it are much less trivial and are pretty much what the discussions revolve around.

Parts of the European left publish jihadist apologetics - blaming "the powerful" and out-right romantizing 'minority' violence, while Muslim reformists (those moderates who some people have trouble finding, and when found seem to be totally ignored), like Maajid Nawaz, condemn it out-right:
"126 killed, including at least 84 children. If grievances radicalise Muslims against things, can we now get radicalised against the Pakistani Taliban & their Islamist ideology?"
Another one:
"126 dead, roughly 84 of them children. No, it is not sufficient merely condemning this latest Taliban school attack. How low has our bar sunk? All of us must uproot the entire Islamist ideology, completely."
Or his latest:
"Taliban jihadists kill 126, among them 84 children, but apparently we must stop calling them Islamists, we must "understand" why they're so angry, and "the West" must say sorry."

What's the difference? One is actually willing to grapple the problem and sees people from his own background - as people - and does not patronize them as objects. Some Europeans actually believe that ideology is a matter of "education" and "social class" while ignoring any cognitive aspect - upbringing, culture, religion, biography, type of education, the incitement, the deluded worldview and press - all those things which play an active role in our decision making - because they will be seen as "racist".

And again, who are those who suffer from it? Not the European bourgeoisies - the spoilt ethnocentric appeasers, who have zero experience in things they like to gossip about while the tea cools down. the less fortunate will.


I agree.

But then again it is quite logical when refering to an ideology that accepts different interpretations to only focus on the one that suits one's opinion, which seems to be the trend in the 'western' world.

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