Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.07.2009 at 23:01

Of course it is a study. but learning maths or learning how to read does not make a person more intelligent. It does make one smarter IN A SPECIFIC FIELD though, but that's something different than intelligence.

I don't agree, IQ tests are full of logical mathematical questions and word and expression observations. Without any knowledge of maths and reading you cannot get a high IQ which is the international basis of intelligence. And anyway smart is a synonym in a way of intelligence. To me intelligence has many forms: responsability, creativity, smartness, attentiveness, comprehension...

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.07.2009 at 23:01

Written by Visioneerie on 21.07.2009 at 22:57

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.07.2009 at 17:21

Written by IronAngel on 21.07.2009 at 17:18

For example, classical training in music since childhood (and all musical training) evidently do enhance intelligence.

Somehow this statement keeps on popping up but I have never seen any proof that musical training enhances intelligence.

As a learner of musical theory myself I can say that it can easily be compared to learning math or learning how to read, it's a study like any other and when you really want to dig deep, musical theory can end up being fairly complex.

I wouldn't think that it can magically increase your intelligence but I do believe that it can (if practiced enough by someone) make you a more perceptive or creative person. Let's face it, musicians have a creativity that others might not have, doctors have a sense of responsibility and a care for people that others don't have. I guess i can go on with these examples. Though you can never be to stereotypical because some doctors can appreciate the more scientific aspect of their job and view their patients as more of a task or personal challenge. So that last part sort of answers the question to a certain degree, that you'll find all sorts of people in the world and as far as I know metalheads are considered people. Nothing's black and white.

Of course it is a study. but learning maths or learning how to read does not make a person more intelligent. It does make one smarter IN A SPECIFIC FIELD though, but that's something different than intelligence.

Yep I catch your drift, but the more knowledgeable you are, the more credible you are in society so I guess that intelligence is one piece of the puzzle and interest/curiosity is the other. Metal (or any muscial genre) would go under the latter so yeah it can be mere coincidence for Haddonfield but as far as lyrical content and concept go, we can't deny that alot of metal has alot of imagination and is visually special.

With all that's been said I do wonder why no one brought up the fact that there is not even a definition for 'the intelligence'. There is for example a general misconception that knowing many things is intelligence. There is the other misconception that being good in math is intelligence. I present both as flat examples for the bigger picture. People tend to project their conception of intelligence on other people and measure them by that.
From what experience I've gained in my 25 years in a, when it comes down to it, pretty arrogant and self-involved society, I would never try to put this shallow criteria on people and try to measure any form of ability.
I think that you can be 'intelligent' on more than one field of life (let me call it that) and all the while 'stupid' on another. For example, I have an aunt who failed school when she was that age, who can till today not do any more math than what is necessary to shop for groceries and has had five attempts to get her driver's licence. Do I think she's stupid? No I don't. Because not only has she since studied Egyptology and some stuff about ancient greece, she also has a way to work with people that I have never seen on another person before (she works as a teacher for mentally challenged children). So in my view she definitely is intelligent. She can read people like books, she can turn your mood in a few seconds because she just has the right thing to say to you even if she doesn't know what's bothering you. Who of the people you generally label as intelligent can do that?

To the topic: I do understand, Haddonfield, where you come from. Only I also have to agree with Elio saying that the average metalhead you meet on a concert is a moron to an extend that sometimes just leaves me speechless. (And I really like to hear myself talking if you know what I mean). But I also noticed which group of people you meet on different concerts and since I also know a few of each I have also realized one thing. One way of being Intelligent that i like to think of is your ability to look at things. The proverbial view for the detail, the ability and the will to question what happens around you and to reflect on those, youself and other people. The urge to learn, the urge to see things in perspective and to try and get the wider view on the whole. And I'm talking about people in general here, not just metalheads. Although for metalheads, and this brings me back on track, I sometime notice that people I like to think of as intelligent by the definition just given often listen to more complex music. The exception of course proves the rule, and this statement does not work the other way round. The people I like to surround myself with can, as I can, spend days with an album by say Enslaved (one of my recent favs that I force upon my environment) and be fascinated with the details, discover more aspect to the whole with eath turn of the album while other people you meet will dismiss anything that isn't as accessible as say Amon Amarth (or In Flames or Iron Maiden if you will) as 'shit'. Of course I'm just giving examples here, and it's not my intention to rant about musical qualities.
It's hard not to generalize. And my verbosity with disclaimers here shows that I myself are not completely satisfied with my words (you should always use your native language for stuff like this). But if I was to choose one aspect to measure the intelligence of metalheads, it'd be this one. Knowing of course that it's just one tiny piece of the whole puzzle. And by far can you neither say that people who like their music more accessible are not intelligent nor that intelligent metalheads all listen to complex music. The conception of complexity in music itself is subject to change during a person's development. When I was 16, I though Nightwish made the most complex and technical music there was But I think the image I try to paint here is clear. And it's not even as clearly separated as I made it out to be. It's all gradients, where ever we look.

edit: Ok, in my time writing this, the issues of being intelligent in one field has come up. So my introduction is redundant now

Written by Haddonfield on 21.07.2009 at 23:10

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.07.2009 at 23:01

Of course it is a study. but learning maths or learning how to read does not make a person more intelligent. It does make one smarter IN A SPECIFIC FIELD though, but that's something different than intelligence.

I don't agree, IQ tests are full of logical mathematical questions and word and expression observations. Without any knowledge of maths and reading you cannot get a high IQ which is the international basis of intelligence. And anyway smart is a synonym in a way of intelligence. To me intelligence has many forms: responsability, creativity, smartness, attentiveness, comprehension...

My father has undergone three IQ tests in his life. And all three had different outcome. One even made him out to be a huge moron. The other two were above the average but still more than 20 points apart. How can you rate anyone by that?

Written by corrupt on 21.07.2009 at 23:44

Written by Haddonfield on 21.07.2009 at 23:10

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.07.2009 at 23:01

Of course it is a study. but learning maths or learning how to read does not make a person more intelligent. It does make one smarter IN A SPECIFIC FIELD though, but that's something different than intelligence.

I don't agree, IQ tests are full of logical mathematical questions and word and expression observations. Without any knowledge of maths and reading you cannot get a high IQ which is the international basis of intelligence. And anyway smart is a synonym in a way of intelligence. To me intelligence has many forms: responsability, creativity, smartness, attentiveness, comprehension...

My father has undergone three IQ tests in his life. And all three had different outcome. One even made him out to be a huge moron. The other two were above the average but still more than 20 points apart. How can you rate anyone by that?

It depends whether the tests were done by a professionnal body or not. There should be a slight difference in between different tests as each question is different and one may be easier to you than one on a previous tests. And if he did them with years appart it is also normal as your IQ tends to grow until a certain age as you pick up more knowledge throughout your life (also depends what life you lead must be said).

Written by Haddonfield on 21.07.2009 at 23:49

Written by corrupt on 21.07.2009 at 23:44

Written by Haddonfield on 21.07.2009 at 23:10

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.07.2009 at 23:01

Of course it is a study. but learning maths or learning how to read does not make a person more intelligent. It does make one smarter IN A SPECIFIC FIELD though, but that's something different than intelligence.

I don't agree, IQ tests are full of logical mathematical questions and word and expression observations. Without any knowledge of maths and reading you cannot get a high IQ which is the international basis of intelligence. And anyway smart is a synonym in a way of intelligence. To me intelligence has many forms: responsability, creativity, smartness, attentiveness, comprehension...

My father has undergone three IQ tests in his life. And all three had different outcome. One even made him out to be a huge moron. The other two were above the average but still more than 20 points apart. How can you rate anyone by that?

It depends whether the tests were done by a professionnal body or not. There should be a slight difference in between different tests as each question is different and one may be easier to you than one on a previous tests. And if he did them with years appart it is also normal as your IQ tends to grow until a certain age as you pick up more knowledge throughout your life (also depends what life you lead must be said).

You rely on very theoretic views there. Two of those test were done while he served in the military at the age of 21 and 23 and the third one he did for fun because the first two results were so far apart. And even the institutions that do these test disclaim that you can only see them as a vague guideline because no two tests of the same person ever come out alike. Besides what you already mentioned it also depends largely on how much sleep you had the night before and how you spent the last days before the test.

IQ tests tell you have good you are at doing IQ tests.

@Marcel, I believe it has been proven to some amount that stimuli does good to your brains. I.e. exercising your mind, in this case, studying, makes you more intelligent.

Written by corrupt on 21.07.2009 at 23:34

I also have to agree with Elio saying that the average metalhead you meet on a concert is a moron to an extend that sometimes just leaves me speechless. (And I really like to hear myself talking if you know what I mean).

The thing is at concerts I tend to avoid these people like lepers. You always get jerks, but as soon as they start talking to me I find a way to flee. I've met some really cool people at concerts, shame I never stayed in contact with some. I think it's just a case that at concerts some people are too narrow minded. It's like when I went to see Hatebreed/Slayer/Slipknot, loads of people were slagging Slipknot of and had only come for Slayer, but I say you may not appreciate a band but at least give them a try, a live performance is never the same as a recorded one, and Slipknot are really good live. But back to my point, A guy talked to me simply because I had a Motorhead t-shirt on, he immediately assumed I didn't like Slipknot and started slagging them off, so I took their defense telling him to give them a try so he just started laughing at me so I just pissed of and wouldn't answer him again. Same sort of thing at Metallica, people looked at me as if I was a freak because I turned up with a Clash t-shirt on, but they were the first to start singing out songs from Load, Reload and St. Anger at the gates, morons. Anyhow, completely drifted away there sorry for that. I also met some cool people, including the only black metal head I've ever met, which I really appreciated, I asked him how he got into metal and loved learning from this. Amazing really the guys father listened to Robert Johnson, Louis Armstrong, Jimi Hendrix and Bob Marley and he thought that metal was the step above from those bands, a very interesting point of view.

I'd also like to mention something else here. I've often wondered whether genius' like Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Da Vinci, Lovecraft...would have listened to metal if they were around today. They were in some way social rejects of their times, controversial artists. One just has to watch Amadeus to realise how similar Mozart's life was to that of a rock star's.

Back to the IQ issue. The more one takes those sorts of tests the better one gets at them, cuse you'll know what to look for. I have taken a couple of IQ tests conducted by so-called professional bodies and the scores varied by more than 45 points. The outcome alo depends highly on the testee is feeling on such a day. Immensely hung-over will get you a lower score f.i.

And actually an IQ does not grow until a certain age, because the tests that are taken always take into consideration one's age and the outcome is compared to other people of the same age group with a score of 100 being the mean and anything lower or higher being the deviations.
If I take the same IQ test now as when I did when I was 20 n my age isn't taken into consideration my score will be lower due to the fact that the maths I knew back then I an't for the love of god reproduce today because I don't use that sort of math any more, whereas my command of language and such will score much higher because I work with language on an every day basis.

The think with an IQ test, and probably the only positive thing about them is they take into account different categories. Those who are generally above average are those who do well in each category rather than one particular one. Which means it gives a result that overlaps a general field rather than a specific one. I'm not a believer in such tests, I only mentionned them because maths and language are important parts of the test which means they must have an important role in developing one's intelligence.

Written by [user id=28338] on 22.07.2009 at 02:19

..but that doesn't means everyone who listens to metal is superior or smarter that others! IMO!

Most of the metalheads in the "scene" where I lived in Jerusalem were like that. In my mind, its one of the more annoying stereotypes.

I don't know if I'd feel comfortable calling the average metalhead a poser, but in my experience most were.

Written by [user id=28338] on 22.07.2009 at 03:04

Written by Sunioj on 22.07.2009 at 03:01

Written by [user id=28338] on 22.07.2009 at 02:19

..but that doesn't means everyone who listens to metal is superior or smarter that others! IMO!

Most of the metalheads in the "scene" where I lived in Jerusalem were like that. In my mind, its one of the more annoying stereotypes.

I don't know if I'd feel comfortable calling the average metalhead a poser, but in my experience most were.

here the majority of average metalheads are posers,some of them didn't know even info for the bands that they like that's ridiculous

Knowing no info on the bands doesn't make you a poser. It is all about the music. If someone likes ALL the music of the band but is unable to name a single band member or ex-member, does that make him a poser? Hell NO. A poser is someone who pretends to like something just to fit in NOT someone who likes the music but doesn't know the background.

It i NOT about the background of a band it IS about TRULY liking the music.

Written by [user id=28338] on 22.07.2009 at 03:04

Written by Sunioj on 22.07.2009 at 03:01

Written by [user id=28338] on 22.07.2009 at 02:19

..but that doesn't means everyone who listens to metal is superior or smarter that others! IMO!

Most of the metalheads in the "scene" where I lived in Jerusalem were like that. In my mind, its one of the more annoying stereotypes.

I don't know if I'd feel comfortable calling the average metalhead a poser, but in my experience most were.

here the majority of average metalheads are posers,some of them didn't know even info for the bands that they like that's ridiculous

Yeah, I know what you mean. Personally, I have a hard time remembering song titles and musician names, but that's because my memory sucks.

Most of the people that I met who bluntly and spitefully state that non-metalheads are idiots, turn out to be stupider themselves. Though I'm not really bothered by the notion itself, some people tend to use in a spiteful manner and that bothers me.

Written by [user id=28338] on 22.07.2009 at 03:31


agreed the music is the most important thing!! but it's ridiculous to see some people with some band t-shirts & don't own even one album of that band.Or wear a bandshirt just to pose for various reasons(girls etc.) that's wrong IMO!

Why is that wrong? Following you rlogic that means you coul never a shirt you like the looks of just because you don't know the band.
Cothing is usually about wearing stuff you like the looks off. FFS I would even wear a Rel Madrid old school shirt cause it is estatically a great shirt, no sponsor names on it and all white when all other teams had crappy sponsor names on ti and shitty colours.

I think that in first place we have to think what the hell is the "intelligence" we are talking about. I have met people who really sucks when talking about many things (think of anything you want), but they are monsters when talking about whate they are good at, math, biology, chemistry, history, politics, literature, music. I know many people that, IMO, is very intelligent and telented on what they like, but for example if they don't give a shit about history or literature, that doesn't mean that they are idiots about that.

This remembers me about some specialists at the hospital, for example, I know this physician who is very good in Cardiology, but he doesn't care about anything else, because for him there are specialists for that. I this guy an idiot?

I don't want to be pretentious, but over the years, many metalhead's I've met at many places (gigs, parties, school, etc.) are not the kind of a very smart person (in many ways). I have met people who don't know a shit about the lyrics of their favorite bands, but they enjoy the sound, the music, like if the voice was just another instrument, also I have met people who thinks they are the authorithy in the subject and they just say very very stupid things.

Dunno, defining something like intelligence is to have a very narrow mind about the subject, cuz there are many kinds of intelligence, and also is not the same being intelligent, talented, smart or creative.

I hope I explained myself well.

People who are deeply into music (any kind of music) tend to be more creative than the average person IMO, but more intelligent i don't think so because people are born intelligent or stupid, maybe intelligent people tend to listen to metal more than the average person, but definitely its not the music that makes people more intelligent.

Tasos - Many quit metal when ''grows older'' and well look at Marcel he still lsiten metal at his age so when we bee at his age we can see who's from member still listen and man muisc s hard to listen , only flower metal not, but eweryt blues, jazz try Cecil Taylor you need LISTEN it and IMO not all can do it

Scene think well if its local scene well yes its good, but generaly I dont follow scene, Ilisten band I missesd fiew local shows because local bands was core n my friends was there there, I listen what I like and ''sugest'' band to me its hard, I never trust till I dont5 hear my own ears

Marcel - if you like band you shood know lil bit like album etleats, but wearing t shirt and listen pop at home its poseing
Ok I might not know name of all Coroner albums whit out looking at MA and MS but I know how it sounds and know 90% how sounds all bands lol journey true MA was usefull and I dont wear band t shirts so

Daggon - you explain my statement about it much better how I did in main post, thank's mate

Probobly you all think IM not intelligent at all because my english typing n grammer sucks

Do i think metal fans are more intelligent than the average person?

no. what i've found out is that metal music tends to attract more of the oddballs, the outcasts etc. and at about ages 15-16 they want to give value to their little group to make themselves feel better and proclaim themselves as more intelligent/kvlt/cool or something. the oddballs i'm talking about most of the times have extreme or at least unusual views on life(atheists, satanists, nihilists, anarchists etc), and so they might be more or less intelligent, but as an average, no, i don't think there's any relation between you liking metal and the level of intelligence you possess.

Intelligence, of course, has not been defined in a way that satisfies all researchers and the general public.

In this instance, I believe we're discussing the overall level a person is in a mental and social fields. An alternative for the word "intelligent" was offered in "cultured", so we're not supposed to look at mathematical and logical skills alone. The topic was promted by an observation from University. The OP thought the percentage of metalheads in University was greater than percentage of metalheads in the entire population; or, more accurately, the entire population of that target age.

In that vein, a fruitful study would be to gather statistical data from different groups, such as University-goers, the unemployed, working class, athletes etc. and compare the statistics to average of the entire population (of that age).

We might find that in certain environments, such as University, a greater percentage of people listen to so-called quality popular music, than among the entire population or athletes. Does this tell us that listening to good music makes you smart? Not at all. Does this mean metalheads are, by definition, smart? Of course not. It would simply mean what the statistic would show: perhaps that 17% of University students like metal (or another style of music), while only 12% of the entire population like that kind of music. It's not a difference you're likely to verify in everyday experience, you'd need a survey with hundreds of subjects.

Written by IronAngel on 22.07.2009 at 16:40

Intelligence, of course, has not been defined in a way that satisfies all researchers and the general public.

In this instance, I believe we're discussing the overall level a person is in a mental and social fields. An alternative for the word "intelligent" was offered in "cultured", so we're not supposed to look at mathematical and logical skills alone. The topic was promted by an observation from University. The OP thought the percentage of metalheads in University was greater than percentage of metalheads in the entire population; or, more accurately, the entire population of that target age.

In that vein, a fruitful study would be to gather statistical data from different groups, such as University-goers, the unemployed, working class, athletes etc. and compare the statistics to average of the entire population (of that age).

We might find that in certain environments, such as University, a greater percentage of people listen to so-called quality popular music, than among the entire population or athletes. Does this tell us that listening to good music makes you smart? Not at all. Does this mean metalheads are, by definition, smart? Of course not. It would simply mean what the statistic would show: perhaps that 17% of University students like metal (or another style of music), while only 12% of the entire population like that kind of music. It's not a difference you're likely to verify in everyday experience, you'd need a survey with hundreds of subjects.

That's exactly what I was going on about. The subject seemed to drift as people thought I meant "metalheads are intelligent and must definitely be so". That's not what I wanted to promote, what I wanted to promote is exactly what you mentionned, the fact that certain social groups may contain higher levels of metalheads than overs, The University being the extreme group of culture and intellect as it is there the social intellect are produced. I'm gonna add I don't like the idea of social intellect. A few professors came out with it when I passed my Masters. They asked me how it felt to be part of the special social intellect. I just said I had never really given it much thought. I don't believe a Masters degree makes me superior to anyone, I hang around with people who have no degrees at all and I never look down on them.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 22.07.2009 at 03:22


Knowing no info on the bands doesn't make you a poser. It is all about the music. If someone likes ALL the music of the band but is unable to name a single band member or ex-member, does that make him a poser? Hell NO. A poser is someone who pretends to like something just to fit in NOT someone who likes the music but doesn't know the background.

It i NOT about the background of a band it IS about TRULY liking the music.

to follow up on this, marcel has been sending doom suggestions and discs my way for a while. FAAL, Akelei, Procession, Heavy Lord, Forsaken, Skepticism, Griftregard. honestly, i don't know fuck-all about these bands aside from Akelei is from the Netherlands and Procession from Chile. i guess now for just listening to the music and not studying the bands' respective histories on their wiki/web pages makes me a poser under some of the thought put forward on this thread.

that's ridiculous.

Haha. I guess it's not the subject of metalhead being superior that every topic ends up discussing, but the subject of posers instead.

Written by Haddonfield on 22.07.2009 at 16:54

Written by IronAngel on 22.07.2009 at 16:40

Intelligence, of course, has not been defined in a way that satisfies all researchers and the general public.

In this instance, I believe we're discussing the overall level a person is in a mental and social fields. An alternative for the word "intelligent" was offered in "cultured", so we're not supposed to look at mathematical and logical skills alone. The topic was promted by an observation from University. The OP thought the percentage of metalheads in University was greater than percentage of metalheads in the entire population; or, more accurately, the entire population of that target age.

In that vein, a fruitful study would be to gather statistical data from different groups, such as University-goers, the unemployed, working class, athletes etc. and compare the statistics to average of the entire population (of that age).

We might find that in certain environments, such as University, a greater percentage of people listen to so-called quality popular music, than among the entire population or athletes. Does this tell us that listening to good music makes you smart? Not at all. Does this mean metalheads are, by definition, smart? Of course not. It would simply mean what the statistic would show: perhaps that 17% of University students like metal (or another style of music), while only 12% of the entire population like that kind of music. It's not a difference you're likely to verify in everyday experience, you'd need a survey with hundreds of subjects.

That's exactly what I was going on about. The subject seemed to drift as people thought I meant "metalheads are intelligent and must definitely be so". That's not what I wanted to promote, what I wanted to promote is exactly what you mentionned, the fact that certain social groups may contain higher levels of metalheads than overs, The University being the extreme group of culture and intellect as it is there the social intellect are produced. I'm gonna add I don't like the idea of social intellect. A few professors came out with it when I passed my Masters. They asked me how it felt to be part of the special social intellect. I just said I had never really given it much thought. I don't believe a Masters degree makes me superior to anyone, I hang around with people who have no degrees at all and I never look down on them.

Good that you pointed that out. People generaly seem to think high education equals smart person. Sure, you need to do have some level of knowledge in order to achive your bacholor/master/doctorial degree, but that doesn't necacerry mean that you are the most capable of handling the issues presented in your feild of knowledge. For example, in my class, some people manage to pass the tests, but are completly dim-witted when discussing the issues outside the classroom. The oppsite aplies to, people that are forced to take countless of re-exams, but generaly have a much deeper knowledge of the subject than the previoulsy mentioned group.

Written by Torelli on 22.07.2009 at 21:22

Written by Haddonfield on 22.07.2009 at 16:54

Written by IronAngel on 22.07.2009 at 16:40

Intelligence, of course, has not been defined in a way that satisfies all researchers and the general public.

In this instance, I believe we're discussing the overall level a person is in a mental and social fields. An alternative for the word "intelligent" was offered in "cultured", so we're not supposed to look at mathematical and logical skills alone. The topic was promted by an observation from University. The OP thought the percentage of metalheads in University was greater than percentage of metalheads in the entire population; or, more accurately, the entire population of that target age.

In that vein, a fruitful study would be to gather statistical data from different groups, such as University-goers, the unemployed, working class, athletes etc. and compare the statistics to average of the entire population (of that age).

We might find that in certain environments, such as University, a greater percentage of people listen to so-called quality popular music, than among the entire population or athletes. Does this tell us that listening to good music makes you smart? Not at all. Does this mean metalheads are, by definition, smart? Of course not. It would simply mean what the statistic would show: perhaps that 17% of University students like metal (or another style of music), while only 12% of the entire population like that kind of music. It's not a difference you're likely to verify in everyday experience, you'd need a survey with hundreds of subjects.

That's exactly what I was going on about. The subject seemed to drift as people thought I meant "metalheads are intelligent and must definitely be so". That's not what I wanted to promote, what I wanted to promote is exactly what you mentionned, the fact that certain social groups may contain higher levels of metalheads than overs, The University being the extreme group of culture and intellect as it is there the social intellect are produced. I'm gonna add I don't like the idea of social intellect. A few professors came out with it when I passed my Masters. They asked me how it felt to be part of the special social intellect. I just said I had never really given it much thought. I don't believe a Masters degree makes me superior to anyone, I hang around with people who have no degrees at all and I never look down on them.

Good that you pointed that out. People generaly seem to think high education equals smart person. Sure, you need to do have some level of knowledge in order to achive your bacholor/master/doctorial degree, but that doesn't necacerry mean that you are the most capable of handling the issues presented in your feild of knowledge. For example, in my class, some people manage to pass the tests, but are completly dim-witted when discussing the issues outside the classroom. The oppsite aplies to, people that are forced to take countless of re-exams, but generaly have a much deeper knowledge of the subject than the previoulsy mentioned group.

That's also what I meant about me and my mates getting through by doing the strict minimum, lots of people simply learn a lesson by heart without comprehending the true thoughts and reasons behind that lesson. I honestly say that I have never revised for an exam, the simple fact that I listened and took notes during lessons was enough for me to understand and produce decent enough exam papers. But that goes back to my point, the people who generally took their studies in the same way a me, more or less basing themselves on the understanding of lessons rather than filling their brains with info are the ones I refered to as my metal/rock friends from the Uni. But as several people have mentionned in posts maybe it is due to openmindedness which facilitated our comprehension of things.

Written by Haddonfield on 22.07.2009 at 21:31

Written by Torelli on 22.07.2009 at 21:22

Written by Haddonfield on 22.07.2009 at 16:54

Written by IronAngel on 22.07.2009 at 16:40

Intelligence, of course, has not been defined in a way that satisfies all researchers and the general public.

In this instance, I believe we're discussing the overall level a person is in a mental and social fields. An alternative for the word "intelligent" was offered in "cultured", so we're not supposed to look at mathematical and logical skills alone. The topic was promted by an observation from University. The OP thought the percentage of metalheads in University was greater than percentage of metalheads in the entire population; or, more accurately, the entire population of that target age.

In that vein, a fruitful study would be to gather statistical data from different groups, such as University-goers, the unemployed, working class, athletes etc. and compare the statistics to average of the entire population (of that age).

We might find that in certain environments, such as University, a greater percentage of people listen to so-called quality popular music, than among the entire population or athletes. Does this tell us that listening to good music makes you smart? Not at all. Does this mean metalheads are, by definition, smart? Of course not. It would simply mean what the statistic would show: perhaps that 17% of University students like metal (or another style of music), while only 12% of the entire population like that kind of music. It's not a difference you're likely to verify in everyday experience, you'd need a survey with hundreds of subjects.

That's exactly what I was going on about. The subject seemed to drift as people thought I meant "metalheads are intelligent and must definitely be so". That's not what I wanted to promote, what I wanted to promote is exactly what you mentionned, the fact that certain social groups may contain higher levels of metalheads than overs, The University being the extreme group of culture and intellect as it is there the social intellect are produced. I'm gonna add I don't like the idea of social intellect. A few professors came out with it when I passed my Masters. They asked me how it felt to be part of the special social intellect. I just said I had never really given it much thought. I don't believe a Masters degree makes me superior to anyone, I hang around with people who have no degrees at all and I never look down on them.

Good that you pointed that out. People generaly seem to think high education equals smart person. Sure, you need to do have some level of knowledge in order to achive your bacholor/master/doctorial degree, but that doesn't necacerry mean that you are the most capable of handling the issues presented in your feild of knowledge. For example, in my class, some people manage to pass the tests, but are completly dim-witted when discussing the issues outside the classroom. The oppsite aplies to, people that are forced to take countless of re-exams, but generaly have a much deeper knowledge of the subject than the previoulsy mentioned group.

That's also what I meant about me and my mates getting through by doing the strict minimum, lots of people simply learn a lesson by heart without comprehending the true thoughts and reasons behind that lesson. I honestly say that I have never revised for an exam, the simple fact that I listened and took notes during lessons was enough for me to understand and produce decent enough exam papers. But that goes back to my point, the people who generally took their studies in the same way a me, more or less basing themselves on the understanding of lessons rather than filling their brains with info are the ones I refered to as my metal/rock friends from the Uni. But as several people have mentionned in posts maybe it is due to openmindedness which facilitated our comprehension of things.

Agreed. Openmindedness seem to be the key here. Then again, I've spoken with a guy that were very open-minded and knowledgeable about music, but whenever another subject was discussed, the level of deepness sunk considerably. But it could just be that he only focused on his intrest, ignoring other subjects as he find them boring/not important.

The open-mindedness viewpoint doesn't seem convincing, when it comes to metal. I find metalheads generally quite close-minded and focused on their own little world.

Written by IronAngel on 23.07.2009 at 15:48

The open-mindedness viewpoint doesn't seem convincing, when it comes to metal. I find metalheads generally quite close-minded and focused on their own little world.

they were a bit open-minded when they started to check out metal but then they got closed-minded i know i was something like that but now i rebounded and i like lots of stuff outside the genre..

Written by Valentin B on 23.07.2009 at 18:00

Written by IronAngel on 23.07.2009 at 15:48

The open-mindedness viewpoint doesn't seem convincing, when it comes to metal. I find metalheads generally quite close-minded and focused on their own little world.

they were a bit open-minded when they started to check out metal but then they got closed-minded i know i was something like that but now i rebounded and i like lots of stuff outside the genre..

Shut up, you called me poser when I told you I like some hip-hop

Hilarious topic, Metalheads are in fact a lot dumber then the average person. Metalheads in general are: dumb, annoying, not funny, close minded and really lack proper hygiene. Comparing them to Bill & Ted is an insult for Bill & Ted because Bill & Ted are at least funny, laid back and smarter.

Does anybody else also notice that a lot of the retarded metalheads have their long hair in a gay Steven Seagal ponytail? not because it sits better or for job related reasons but more to hide the fact that there hair is all greasy and knotted.