General Metal, Melodic Metal, Extreme Metal, Alternative Metal

I think we're missing a prog-part. Off course it stands "progressive" under melodic metal, but this is limited to the "soft" prog bands. Arcuturus and Cynic is as much prog as Dream Theater in my opinion.

I see a subforum called "Prog". Here we could have everything from typical prog metal(Dream Theater, Queensrÿche) to avantgarde metal(Arcturus), to extreme prog metal(Opeth, Ihshahn), to fusion metal(Cynic, Spiral Architect), to prog rock(King Crimson, Magma, Rush, etc..) , also quasi-proggish stuff like Muse.

Or something like that.

The way it is now prog bands are spread out on pretty much every every metal-forum, and the rock-forum.

I'm hesitant. We should probably think of such a separation for doom and some other problematic genres that have melodic and extreme representants as well.

One thing is sure, IMO, we should find a solution that doesn't call for more forums or subforums, since I personally find the current list to be quite long.

The way I see it, if we allow for a prog forum, we'll soon have to allow for a power forum, a black metal forum, a doom metal forum, a death metal forum, a grindcore forum, an avant garde forum, and pretty soon, things would be completely out of hand. So really, I don't think we should let prog have its own forum, considering the problems it might cause down the road.

if any forum is in question, then it must be a doom metal one. a lot of prog bands aren't just progressive, but fuse other styles of music, so I don't see it coming.

Written by Guest on 28.09.2006 at 02:09

The way I see it, if we allow for a prog forum, we'll soon have to allow for a power forum, a black metal forum, a doom metal forum, a death metal forum, a grindcore forum, an avant garde forum, and pretty soon, things would be completely out of hand. So really, I don't think we should let prog have its own forum, considering the problems it might cause down the road.

Yeah, I agree with you. If a forum dedicated to "fusion metal", prog rock and "quasi-proggish stuff" can happen, then there is virtually no limit to what people will ask for.

I don't think that adding a prog and doom forum will lead to the need for other forms to be created, like some people have mentioned. Most sub sub genres fit within the current threads we have, except for doom and prog. I think that it would be a good idea to add two more forums, but like Wrathchild said, the list is already long enough.

Even I don't think prog should have it's own seperate forum on MS...the reasons were already stated so I don't have to mention them again...Metalstorm right now is a tight running ship and doesn't need anymore clutter...things seem to be fine just the way they are...

Written by Guest on 30.09.2006 at 22:51

Even I don't think prog should have it's own seperate forum on MS...the reasons were already stated so I don't have to mention them again...Metalstorm right now is a tight running ship and doesn't need anymore clutter...things seem to be fine just the way they are...

Ship? Ship you say?

Back on-topic:
So far, it looks like no one agrees with this idea, but let's wait until this thread reaches 30 posts. We will then use the powers of popular sovereignty to determine the fate of this idea.

@Insineratehymn: Someone has too much time on their hands

Written by Guest on 01.10.2006 at 09:06

@Insineratehymn: Someone has too much time on their hands

Actually, that took me only 2 minutes. Most of my time revolves around masturbating to Lindsay Lohan, learning the ways of hacking, and illegaly downloading music. (Miniluv has edited doubleplusungood info to make it be doubleplusgoodfullwise.)

Sorry for off-topic post, by the way.

@Insineratehymn: Hahaha...it was hillarious though...I love it...but I think the question has already been answered, don't you? So...why not be off-topic

Banned users brig hahahhahahah Genius!

why's Dreamwar in a seperate cell? am I missing something?

Dreamwar is someone who kept returning and kept spamming. He was banned several times but kept returning.

Well, this is what I got from previous messages about him. I don't think I was online at this site back when he was.

This is actually something I have been thinking about for a long time. Progressive Metal seems to be the most diverse genre in Metal. It is probably due to the fact that Prog, unlike other genres is not defined by a sound, but a style. Death Metal sounds like Death Metal because of guitar tones, growls, blast beats etc. Power Metal sounds like Power Metal because of double bass, arpeggios, and gnomes. But Prog has no actual sound to describe it.

I actually think taking Progressive Metal out of the "Melodic" section and placing it in the "Alternative" section might work. Although, it's own section might work better. When you look at Progressive Metal, you see a a bunch of different sounds mixed in there, which can all be called 'sub-genres'.

Classic Prog: Rush, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep
Traditional Prog: Queensryche, Fates Warning, Dream Theater
Prog-Death: Opeth, Death, Atheist
Art/Avant-garde: Pain Of Salvation, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Kekal
Dark Prog: Evergrey, Green Carnation, .Agalloch
Fussion-Jazz: Liquid Tension Experiment, Derek Sherinian, Behold...The Arctipous
Industrial Prog: Devin Townsend Band, OSI
Psychedelic/Space: Ayreon, Dead Soul Tribe, Porcupine Tree, Tool


And it goes on from there with Gothic, Power, Black, etc.

And of course Prog related acts would be included. Bands like Spock's Beard or Glass Hammer?

For me, I have never considered Prog to be a form of 'Melodic' Metal. Granted there are some very melodic bands, but there are some prog bands that are not melodic at all.

Yeah, but then create a sub-board for grindcore too:

Grindcore
Goregrind
Gorecore
Porngrind
Jokegrind
Anal-Cunt-Grind
I don't know what else-grind
Blood Grind
Running-out-of-things-grind
etc.

I don't agree with this idea. First things first, Doom maybe should. But I don't really feel the need for doom too.

MetalStorm is a tight running ship indeed.

oh come on, if you want a prog subforum, i'll want a heavy metal subforum, and damnated will want a black metal one, etc.....
the grouping is good as is.

Written by Lucas on 08.11.2006 at 19:26

Anal-Cunt-Grind
I don't know what else-grind
Running-out-of-things-grind

what if there's a band that is experimenting with these styles, even as we speak

@cursed am I that predictable?

Written by Valentin B on 08.11.2006 at 19:59

oh come on, if you want a prog subforum, i'll want a heavy metal subforum, and damnated will want a black metal one, etc.....
the grouping is good as is.

Indeed, and if someone wants a doom metal forum, then I'll demand an avant garde metal forum. Any decision that involves dividing up an area will simply have a domino effect.

@damnated: well, i was just giving an example, and i tell you i wouldn't be that surprised if, given the situation above, someone will want a black metal subforum with the following sections: raw, trve, grim, p0$er, unblack, necro, death, satanic black metal......

yes, yes. I know what you ment, but if you look in the top, you'll see that I want a doom subforum

but my final conclusion is this: or every music genre gets it's very own subforum, or there will be no subforums, at all. and imo the later can be achieved pretty easily.

pointless idea. melodic prog goes in the melodic metal forum. progressive extreme metal goes in the extreme metal forum. logic strikes again!

The difference between Progressive music and others, say doom or grind, is that Progressive in not a sound. You hear a grind band, and you know they are grind because of the sound. The idea behind progressive is that it is NOT a sound, but a style.

I really think there should be a section here for Progressive/Avent Garde/Technical. These three have a lot in common, and many of the bands over lap in that area. Behold...The Archtipus is a Progressive/Technical Metal band, for example. Bands like Dream Theater and DEP have more in common than Dream Theater and Sonata Arctica do.

This is how I have always seen the major break down of Metal:
Melodic: Heavy, Power, Symphonic, Gothic, Glam, Pop, Grunge
Extreme: Thrash, Death, Black, Grind, Metalcore
Prog-Experimental: Progresseive, Avent Garde, Experimental, Technical

When ever I am teaching a class on Metal, that is how I have always broken it down. Now maybe that is just me, but it is how I see it.

well its just as easy as Tommy Tee puts it in my opinion

i have just thought of 'progressive' as something any band can be
same with a band being 'technical' and same with a band having 'symphonic' bits
all three of these both melodic and extreme bands can have

Written by wrathchild on 27.09.2006 at 21:18

One thing is sure, IMO, we should find a solution that doesn't call for more forums or subforums, since I personally find the current list to be quite long.

I agree - discussion gets diluted really badly if threads are spread (haha, rhyme) over zillions of different forums. I think in the case of prog threads, it should come down to whether or not the band/bands/style in question is melodic or extreme.

Well, after Jed gave that consise little explination, I would be now leaning more towards having this too...

Well...what about having a subforum inside of a forum...it wouldn't esthetically look bad from your standpoint, wrath...you would have the same number of forums on the outside interface, but in say, the melodic forum, you could have a link at the top to the Progressive/Avent Garde/Technical Forum...

Written by Guest on 28.11.2006 at 02:30

Well...what about having a subforum inside of a forum...it wouldn't esthetically look bad from your standpoint, wrath...you would have the same number of forums on the outside interface, but in say, the melodic forum, you could have a link at the top to the Progressive/Avent Garde/Technical Forum...

I don't really get the idea. Where would exactly be this "Progressive/Avent Garde/Technical Forum"? You suggest we put a link to this forum in the melodic forum but then that would mean those genres are still part of the Melodic forum
Of course we could then put the same kind of link in the Extreme and Alternative forums but still, this "subforum" would be hidden?
Plus I think this subforum already exists, thanks to the categories. If you click on a "prog" category inside the Extreme forum, you'l have Prog bands that sound extreme. In the melodic forum, prog bands that sound more melodic, etc. I have the great feeling filters are underused.

But what bugs me more is Doom metal. I think we should not keep on putting every doom thread in the Melodic forum, cause some doom bands are extreme. We could then use categories too, but the problem - as pointed out to me by Richard - would be: where to put a band like My Dying Bride? Is it Melodic or Exteme? If we choose to put it in the one or the other forum, then will we get hundreds of reports saying they should be in the other forum?

Your opinions are welcome...

@wrathchild

I suggest this idea only because it was what Jed and I used to have back in the days of Element Music. Basically, when you open up the melodic forum there would be a link to the Progressive/Avant Garde/Technical Forum symbolized as the first thread in the forum but as a bigger looking link then the other threads. There would then be a line break seperating it from all the other threads in the forum.

Those genres would of course still all be part of the Melodic Forum, yes. The subforum would not be hidden as it would be in plain view; just seperated slightly at the top of the thread list by the line break. I don't beleive that the subforum already exists as you mentioned because catagories existing in multiple forums that you are able to access does not mean it is an actual forum or subforum in itself; we're talking about a solid subforum or forum that you can access as a whole and not in parts.

Ah ok, the subforum would then be a separate group of threads. Not a bad idea but then I don't see how we could still use our category system.

Also I still don't see something: Jed's idea is that Prog needs to be separated from the Melodic, Alternative or Extreme forums. Though your idea would still imply that the prog subforum would be located inside one of those forum. Unless I've misinterpreted something...

I stand by the categories for now. The way I see them is that you should have a "death metal" subforum only if you filter the Extreme forum by selecting the "death metal" tag. I admit mods still have to arrange most existing categories to make this possible.

I know that in the case of prog (for example), the main idea developped in this thread is that even with categories, prog bands would still be divided into those that are in the Melodic forum, those in the Extreme forum, etc. Yet this is only the reflections that all genres are developping beyond their former limits and definitions. So if we see it as a need that Prog gets its own forum (the only real solution if we still want to gather every prog band) now, we'll have to allow the same thing to other genres later, because they're expanding.

So, the other solution would probably be to stop refering to genres when using forums. I mean, "what sounds melodic should be in the melodic forum" instead of "melodic genres go to the Melodic forum" because the later is becoming more and more inaccurate. But with bands like MDB, we could say they're equally extreme and melodic so... shall we take that risk?

@wrathchild

I don't understand how you don't see why you can't still use your catagory system; you'd still be able to catagorize everything down by filtering. Sure, Jed thinks that Prog needs to be seperated from the Melodic, Alternative or Extreme forums but even if there was a subforum inside of the Melodic, it wouldn't nessesarily be a part of all of the other threads related to the Melodic threads in that forum; Progressive is STILL a Melodic metal sub-genre...maybe I'll talk to Jed about this whenever he gets a break from life because I am a firm beleiver that Progressive/Avant Garde/Technical should not have it's own forum with Melodic/Alternative/Extreme and should be inside Melodic; I mean, how could it not be anyway?

Even with the idea that I'm suggesting, you would still be catagorizing and dividing bands. As far as other genres expanding into forums, why not down the line? I mean, did you guys really think that you would have such general forums forever? I personally would see this as the start to an evolution of more particular forums on Metalstorm. The idea of "what sounds melodic should be in the melodic forum" instead of "melodic genres go to the Melodic forum" is a redundancy in my view; it basically means the same thing to me. What sounds melodic is actually meant to be in a melodic genre.

I think we're talking in circles here

What's MDB?