Let me start off by saying I certainly DO NOT believe metal is popmusic. Simply because it isn't accepted by the masses, as well as the fact that metal as a genre isn't well-known by most people (aside from the bad popular metalbands like Slipknot and Korn) and is nowhere to be heard on the radio.

The reason I started this topic is because my father and brother (who know a lot less about metal than me) insisted metal is a subgenre of rock, which are both subgenres of popmusic. Ludicrous in my opinion!

I want some serious replies to prove them (or me) wrong!

If it's popular.

Written by Azarath on 05.02.2013 at 22:59

If it's popular.

I meant metal music in general, which I thought was pretty obvious.

Another What is Heavy Metal discussion... Great! Just fucking great!

Imo, Metal began its progression as some kind of bastard child between psychedelic blues rock and something much heavier. So at the beginning, yes it would be considered a Rock subgenre, but it quickly grew into an entity of its own. I don't know much about Rock history, but I really doubt it's a Pop subgenre. Hell following that logic every musical style ever created are subgenres of Music.

Written by Erik M. on 05.02.2013 at 23:03

Written by Azarath on 05.02.2013 at 22:59

If it's popular.

I meant metal music in general, which I thought was pretty obvious.

What she means, I assume, is that if it's popular (which by no means it isn't, even for certain genres like nu or glam) it can be considered pop music.
But it's not, so...
/thread.

The true question is - what is "pop music"? is that a specific genre defined by something (like metal/rap/jazz) or its just "i dont know how to call it and i think it sucks, so lets say its pop"?

Yes what is pop music?
If we tale what is popular now and wa spreviusly are on the air all the time, on mysic TV (if we still have nusic TV) all one hir wonders, one summer songs bla bla, yes we can say metal IS NOT a pop music, but if we think pop is like popular music, we can say metal in metlhead society is pop muisc but most will deny it because of steriotype of pop music ... but I well I hate term popmusic in metal , but some like flower metal Starovarius and Freedom Call or such type bans are more closser to pop muisc than doom ever will be so ... its tricky quasten

A more serious answer? OK.

Metal is a subgenre of rock. Rock evolved from the earlier Rock and Roll, which in turn is a combination of blues, R&B and country. That's pretty simplified. Rock in the 60's gave birth to blues rock, psychedelic rock and hard rock. Heavy metal is a mix of those genres, taken to their extremes.

Then it depends what you mean by "popmusic". "Popmusic" as in "pop"? That's a pretty ill-defined "genre" in the first place. Popular music, as in what's popular (which is what I referred to in my first (awesome) post)? There are lots of metal bands that are well-known, get plenty of radio airplay and sell millions of records. Whether you like them or not ("bad popular metalbands") is irrelevant. Popular metal is popular music.

Metal is not a "subgenre of popmusic" though.

Quote:

What she means, I assume...

Written by Azarath on 06.02.2013 at 01:52

A more serious answer? OK.

Metal is a subgenre of rock. Rock evolved from the earlier Rock and Roll, which in turn is a combination of blues, R&B and country. That's pretty simplified. Rock in the 60's gave birth to blues rock, psychedelic rock and hard rock. Heavy metal is a mix of those genres, taken to their extremes.

Then it depends what you mean by "popmusic". "Popmusic" as in "pop"? That's a pretty ill-defined "genre" in the first place. Popular music, as in what's popular (which is what I referred to in my first (awesome) post)? There are lots of metal bands that are well-known, get plenty of radio airplay and sell millions of records. Whether you like them or not ("bad popular metalbands") is irrelevant. Popular metal is popular music.

Metal is not a "subgenre of popmusic" though.

Quote:

What she means, I assume...

tell us what we dont know and besides there is not such genre pop muisc
in 70's rhitm n blues wa spop, country wa spop, band slike Foregner, CCR, Lynyrd Skynyrd even Black Sabbath and many othere was pop bands,
Sabbath even did take part in Top Of Pops , many so called rock bands did ... so generaly there is no pop music like genre, its simply popular muisc, even nowdays hip hop, dance, and so on ...

Depends on how you see it ... if you refer to pop music as "popular music" then YES it is ... the term popular music is simply referring to any kind of music that is considered to be "light", so pretty much anything besides the whole classical branch

Pop music and popular music are two different things.
Popular music = Music that isn't traditional or classical.
Pop music = http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/pop

No, metal is not pop music. Metal is to heavy to be pop music. Its also the most hated genre of music from most people such as churches, and people with religious backgrounds besides the love for christian metal bands. Its getting more popular throughout the times but its not getting as "Popular" as you think of.

When I go into a good music store (when I can found them nowadays), there is usually a pop category (a intermingled category sometimes referred to as Pop/Rock/HipHop). Here you will find popular music within a very broad term but usually music most people can listen to.
Than there usually is a heavy metal section, a rap section, a jazz section, and a classical section since these seem to be outside the norm.

I would say pop is not a genre of music but a label to help people find easier listening music that is popular. Therefore Heavy Metal (even in its most popular form) would not be labeled as pop.

Heavy Metal is a sub genre of rock, no doubt. It is where it started from off the genres of blues and r&b and country.

Written by Author on 06.02.2013 at 13:19

Pop music and popular music are two different things.
Popular music = Music that isn't traditional or classical.
Pop music = http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/pop

This.

Pop is a subgenre of popular music, or rather a vague category of music that isn't anything else. Most of the stuff most of the people posting here believe to be pop is probably something else; R'n'B, dance, soul, whatever. I'm not sure how useful the term "pop" even is, because almost everything can be classified better. It truly only seems to apply to mass-marketed billboard products or older acts. I can't think of many (though there are some) serious modern-day artists who I would identify purely as pop.

Metal is a relatively mainstream genre of popular music, that is obvious. But to be honest, the traditional separation of music into popular, ethnic/folk (not to be confused with popular music folk) and art music ("classical") isn't very justified either. There are certain evaluative biases underlying the distinction, and it relies on parameters of institutions and mediums that are no longer clear-cut or relevant. Modern classical or American folk are cases where such distinctions seem arbitrary, for example.

And now that I've dismissed both pop as a specific genre and popular music as a large category, I'll also have to berate the old division of popular music into pop and rock. It may have been a valid description of the music field ages ago, but nowadays it simply doesn't do justice to the reality.

Imo, Heavy Metal has its own mass of fans. A big enough fan base of regular Metal fans which makes it pop music for us! We aren't the typical pop music masses wearing pink and screaming, crying and freaking out for Mayhem or Iron Maiden like pop fans do for Justin Beiber and Britney Spears. We express our joy for Metal bands by moshing, headbanging and growling, grunting and screeching. The outside world of Metal don't know much about our world, but many of us Metal fans know a lot about Metal. We are our own pop music cause its popular to us. Iron Maiden is a POPular Heavy Metal band, Cannibal Corpse is a POPular Death Metal band, Mayhem is a POPular Black Metal band...and so on.

I really don't think metal is pop music, although there are exceptions, when bands get so popular and sold-out that their music becomes known by very many people (like Metallica ). But if we look at most metal bands, they are definitely not very popular, this is even more true for extreme metal bands...Just compare the view numbers on YouTube of a pop artist and a metal band you'll see the difference...

Written by Author on 06.02.2013 at 13:19

Pop music and popular music are two different things.
Popular music = Music that isn't traditional or classical.
Pop music = http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/pop

Exactly.
And Metal it is NOT a rock subgenre.

Some points i would like to make:

1. Pop music to me is music that hits the charts and is often played on radio/TV. It's music that the masses usually know. I think in some countries metal can be pop music. For example Alternative / Nu is quite commonly known and heard, Power Metal in Finland? Someone won that Finland Idol TV show with Sonata Arctica a few years back - where else would that happen?

2. Historically, Metal can be described as having Blues/Rock roots. However, it's rubbish to say they are even related now, Metal (and most other genres) have really expanded and become extremely hard to categorize, and have really left their roots completely.

Written by Akula on 07.02.2013 at 01:09

Exactly.
And Metal it is NOT a rock subgenre.

Wrong.

I think you are wrong.

Written by Akula on 07.02.2013 at 17:00

I think you are wrong.

I know you are wrong.

Theoretically, Metal is a subgenre of Rock. Although i hardly see a relation with all the diversity out there and completely different social followers.

When does something become different enough to leave it's core genre roots? Saying Metal is a subgenre of Rock is like saying Elvis paved the way for Death Metal. If we were to somehow 'unite' all metal related bands together and took out the similarities, what do we have? A guitar, Bass and Drums. That is the only thing keeping Metal as a sub category of Rock imo.

From wikipedia:
"Musically, rock has centered around the electric guitar, usually as part of a rock group with bass guitar and drums. Typically, rock is song-based music usually with a 4/4 time signature utilizing a verse-chorus form, but the genre has become extremely diverse and common musical characteristics are difficult to define. Like pop music, lyrics often stress romantic love but also address a wide variety of other themes that are frequently social or political in emphasis. The dominance of rock by white, male musicians has been seen as one of the key factors shaping the themes explored in rock music. Rock places a higher degree of emphasis on musicianship, live performance, and an ideology of authenticity than pop music."

Rock is about as useless a genre definition as pop.

Written by Author on 07.02.2013 at 19:07

Written by Akula on 07.02.2013 at 17:00

I think you are wrong.

I know you are wrong.

I know the same of you.

Heavy metal comes from blues, period.

Written by Akula on 08.02.2013 at 02:45

Written by Author on 07.02.2013 at 19:07

Written by Akula on 07.02.2013 at 17:00

I think you are wrong.

I know you are wrong.

I know the same of you.

Heavy metal comes from blues, period.

...And where do you think rock came from?

Written by Author on 08.02.2013 at 02:51

Written by Akula on 08.02.2013 at 02:45

Written by Author on 07.02.2013 at 19:07

Written by Akula on 07.02.2013 at 17:00

I think you are wrong.

I know you are wrong.

I know the same of you.

Heavy metal comes from blues, period.

...And where do you think rock came from?

WWE? .......i know I am right.

Written by Akula on 08.02.2013 at 02:45

Heavy metal comes from blues, period.

Blues - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QFdMGj51jc
(Psychedelic) Rock - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5FZxRgRqM

Which sounds more like heavy metal to you?

Written by Edmund Fogg on 05.02.2013 at 23:39

Another What is Heavy Metal discussion... Great! Just fucking great!

Imo, Metal began its progression as some kind of bastard child between psychedelic blues rock and something much heavier. So at the beginning, yes it would be considered a Rock subgenre, but it quickly grew into an entity of its own. I don't know much about Rock history, but I really doubt it's a Pop subgenre. Hell following that logic every musical style ever created are subgenres of Music.

Pretty much my thoughts as well.

Written by Ellrohir on 06.02.2013 at 01:41

The true question is - what is "pop music"? is that a specific genre defined by something (like metal/rap/jazz) or its just "i dont know how to call it and i think it sucks, so lets say its pop"?

I don't think popmusic is a specific genre, since metal bands CAN be popbands, like Slipknot, Korn and Rammstein. However, metal as a genre can never be considered popmusic since it isn't accepted as "good" music by the majority of people. If you'd have people (at your work for example) listen to brutal death metal or funeral doom metal, I think pretty much everyone (who isn't into metal) would immediately want to stop listening to it.

Written by Bad English on 06.02.2013 at 01:44

Yes what is pop music?
If we tale what is popular now and wa spreviusly are on the air all the time, on mysic TV (if we still have nusic TV) all one hir wonders, one summer songs bla bla, yes we can say metal IS NOT a pop music, but if we think pop is like popular music, we can say metal in metlhead society is pop muisc but most will deny it because of steriotype of pop music ... but I well I hate term popmusic in metal , but some like flower metal Starovarius and Freedom Call or such type bans are more closser to pop muisc than doom ever will be so ... its tricky quasten

Yes, popmusic is popular music that's generally accepted as "good" music by the masses, as well as being accessible music. Metal as an overall genre is neither of these things.

Written by Jtbmetal123 on 06.02.2013 at 14:40

No, metal is not pop music. Metal is to heavy to be pop music. Its also the most hated genre of music from most people such as churches, and people with religious backgrounds besides the love for christian metal bands. Its getting more popular throughout the times but its not getting as "Popular" as you think of.

True, I know more people who dislike/hate metal than people who like metal. It's ridiculous to view a genre that's commonly hated as popmusic. Still, even though some metal bands have millions of fans around the world, the total amount of metalheads in the world is still nothing compared to the amount of fans rock bands or pop musicians have.

Written by bitethepain on 06.02.2013 at 18:13

When I go into a good music store (when I can found them nowadays), there is usually a pop category (a intermingled category sometimes referred to as Pop/Rock/HipHop). Here you will find popular music within a very broad term but usually music most people can listen to.
Than there usually is a heavy metal section, a rap section, a jazz section, and a classical section since these seem to be outside the norm.

I would say pop is not a genre of music but a label to help people find easier listening music that is popular. Therefore Heavy Metal (even in its most popular form) would not be labeled as pop.

Heavy Metal is a sub genre of rock, no doubt. It is where it started from off the genres of blues and r&b and country.

Good point. I still get irritated when people refer to the genre metal as "heavy metal", since heavy metal is actually a subgenre of metal.

Written by Author on 06.02.2013 at 23:55

Imo, Heavy Metal has its own mass of fans. A big enough fan base of regular Metal fans which makes it pop music for us! We aren't the typical pop music masses wearing pink and screaming, crying and freaking out for Mayhem or Iron Maiden like pop fans do for Justin Beiber and Britney Spears. We express our joy for Metal bands by moshing, headbanging and growling, grunting and screeching. The outside world of Metal don't know much about our world, but many of us Metal fans know a lot about Metal. We are our own pop music cause its popular to us. Iron Maiden is a POPular Heavy Metal band, Cannibal Corpse is a POPular Death Metal band, Mayhem is a POPular Black Metal band...and so on.

Well, seems logical what you're saying. However, most genres of music are popular by a certain amount of people, so that would mean every genre is pop. I get what you're saying, though I was talking about metal being popmusic in the big picture, so taking into account all genres.

Written by Capt. Fluntas on 07.02.2013 at 00:28

I really don't think metal is pop music, although there are exceptions, when bands get so popular and sold-out that their music becomes known by very many people (like Metallica ). But if we look at most metal bands, they are definitely not very popular, this is even more true for extreme metal bands...Just compare the view numbers on YouTube of a pop artist and a metal band you'll see the difference...

I totally agree. I think the amount of people listening to music is a good way to tell whether the music is popular enough to be called popmusic.

Written by Akula on 07.02.2013 at 01:09

Exactly.
And Metal it is NOT a rock subgenre.

Actually, metal came to life thanks to rock. That being said, it's stupid to really view metal as a subgenre of rock, since you'd first have to enjoy the main genre to enjoy the subgenre as well. And obviously, this is definitely not the case. Furthermore, metal is a huge genre on its own. It might exist thanks to rock, but that's pretty much irrelevant now since the two genres are incredibly different from eachother.

Written by Dark Cornatus on 07.02.2013 at 19:28

Theoretically, Metal is a subgenre of Rock. Although i hardly see a relation with all the diversity out there and completely different social followers.

When does something become different enough to leave it's core genre roots? Saying Metal is a subgenre of Rock is like saying Elvis paved the way for Death Metal. If we were to somehow 'unite' all metal related bands together and took out the similarities, what do we have? A guitar, Bass and Drums. That is the only thing keeping Metal as a sub category of Rock imo.

I totally agree with you.

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 08.02.2013 at 07:01

WWE? .......i know I am right.

I don't watch wrestling, so...

Written by Erik M. on 09.02.2013 at 01:25



Actually, metal came to life thanks to rock. That being said, it's stupid to really view metal as a subgenre of rock, since you'd first have to enjoy the main genre to enjoy the subgenre as well. And obviously, this is definitely not the case. Furthermore, metal is a huge genre on its own. It might exist thanks to rock, but that's pretty much irrelevant now since the two genres are incredibly different from eachother.

Why would you have to like the main genre?

I love hardcore punk but I am not a huge fan of old school punk rock (nothing against it, nor do I hate it, I just don't feel anything towards it), fuck the system then?