This morning while driving to work something suddenly popped into my head....since Viking metal is pretty geographically specific, should bands who play Viking metal necessarily be from Scandinavia to not be seen as trying to be something they're not? I mean I know there are a fair amount of Viking metal from Germany as well, but lets say a band from here where I live (South Africa) wanted to start up a Viking Metal band - wont that be sort of....stupid? Im a huge fan of Viking metal and wondered about this quite a lot....had I been in a band i would probably love to play Viking metal but I would probably put my war-paint on my face, look in the mirror and go "what the fuck dude...ur about as Viking as the zulu in the bush".

whats your thoughts on this?

It is your soul which makes the thing....You may also move to Scandinavia....besides...you South-Africans are Boers....you're the descendants of the Dutch sea raiders...that should be...well...at least...colleagues of vikings....unless of course you are a zulu in the bush....

Interesting man interesting,

Well since ist late and im sleepy, i wont psot long post, but I had something tos ay, ok I mention band stomorow, but i sugest you check Argebtinain bands like Heulend Horn and Mitternacht also Chilian abnds like Aysenlur,
Man in Chile and Argentina are rear but ultra good quality viking bands also I can say it about Canada
In my pc are some good mp3 from SA viking band oh yes in Brazil IMO was good 5-10 bands, good uality one or 2 demo bands,
realy awsome and SA band mp3 are in audistreat.com try there, and iMO best viking metal country outside Scandinavia are Germany, but about it some day

Well... I also think that it is a littl bit stupid to sing about Vikings if you live in Serbia, but like Viggo said it is soul which makes the things... not your geographical position, and if you really like that why don't? I play in bands and we play some kind of Viking metal, but our lyrics have Slavic accent, cause we are Slavs. I would also mention few Viking metal bands from south Europe: Asathor - Austria, Wotan - Italy, that means that your postion on the map of the worlds is not very important. I said that it would be stupid for me to sing about Odin, in which I don't believe even a bit, ot about glory war victories of the Vikings with which Slavs were at war... and if anyone interesting we slaughter them hard

Written by APOHAKC on 06.04.2007 at 11:45

Well... I also think that it is a littl bit stupid to sing about Vikings if you live in Serbia, but like Viggo said it is soul which makes the things... not your geographical position, and if you really like that why don't? I play in bands and we play some kind of Viking metal, but our lyrics have Slavic accent, cause we are Slavs. I would also mention few Viking metal bands from south Europe: Asathor - Austria, Wotan - Italy, that means that your postion on the map of the worlds is not very important. I said that it would be stupid for me to sing about Odin, in which I don't believe even a bit, ot about glory war victories of the Vikings with which Slavs were at war... and if anyone interesting we slaughter them hard

I agree I camt understand how for example Argentinian bands can play viking mketal and also even folk metal who are like german, slavic folk ok lyrics about viking themes its ok, but still ist wierd, etleast slavonic bands play an dsing about slavonism and SA bands why thay cand to it about indians, andes, condoors, ist be same...IMO ist posers, but those 3 bands what I menation are awsome man awsome

Agree, almost all bands here are based on Slavim mythologie and culture, you already know that from my topic, anyway we don't have any Viking band around here

Written by APOHAKC on 06.04.2007 at 12:36

Agree, almost all bands here are based on Slavim mythologie and culture, you already know that from my topic, anyway we don't have any Viking band around here

Yes and also in UK there are celtic/anglo-sakon bands so IMO if bands wwnna p;lay such music it shood be based on historical themes

Yeah true....thats kinda what makes it hard for South African bands who want to play folkish type metal because to be honest we dont really have much to sing about them. The only heritage or whatever we have here are basically boers fighting zulus and thats not really something you want to sing about because then you are considered racist and could very likely be killed lol I mean we decend from the dutch/french/germans whoever but for someone who is really into Viking Metal he sort of finds himself out of place if he wants to start a band in a place that holds no connection with Norse mythology at all...its a bummer really. Ive always been very interested in viking mythology, probably since i can remember and is a big reason why ive come to love metal especially viking metal....it sucks being passionate about something and then you will always seem like a poser amongst the people who surround you.

Before I answer your question, I will commend you on creating a really good thread.

Right, well when I call a band 'Viking Metal', I usually think of 3 main things.

Music - if the band has the definite Viking Metal sound (I can't be bothered describing it here in detail, Skald and I dissected it pretty thoroughly in some other thread a while ago, probably the 'Viking Metal' or 'Genre Definitions' thread, can't remember, possibly it was in the old forum too, if so then post it here and I'll do it all again!) then that's a major part.

Lyrics - for it to be Viking Metal, surely the band must have lyrical connections to Scandinavia, specifically from 200 - 1200 A.D. (rough dates). Other Nordic cultures are close enough too, for example I've grudgingly agreed to label Moonsorrow a Viking Metal band simply because ancient Finnish stuff is close enough to Vikings, not to mention because they themselves consider themselves to be Viking (e.g. calling themselves 'Sons of the One-Eyed God', meaning Odin, and their drunken choir being the 'Valhalla Choral Ensemble' or something along those lines). Saxons singing about Wotan is close enough to Swedes singing about Oden and Faeroese singing about Odhinn for me.

The Moonsorrow thing brings me to the third point - the band must consider themselves to be Viking (or other North European equivalent). Hence, there are bands from Brazil who can be Celtic, bands from Australia who can be Norse, etc etc. At the same time, I feel that the point of such music is to be proud of one's own culture and heritage. Tuatha De Danann (from Brazil) might be of Irish or Scottish or Gaulois heritage, so that's fine for them to sing about what their ancestors had. Muspelheim (Australia) could be of some Nordic heritage, so they've got more than enough reason to be proud of that. Hell, I'm of Indian origin, even though I live in Australia, so who will complain if I wrote stuff about India's golden age? At the same time, if these bands/people were not of that origin, I'd raise an eyebrow, because surely they'd have enough things in their own culture/history to be proud about? If a Viking Metal band emerged from Burkina Faso, then wouldn't we all find it weird? But if that's what they want to do, then let 'em do it, I suppose, because if it makes for an awesome experience (both for the artist and for the listener), then there's nothing anyone can say!

At the end of the day, look to Manowar (best solution to all of life's problems!) - they frequently sing about Vikings, act like they're Germans, when in fact Joey deMaio, their main songwriter, is of Italian origin. Who's going to tell him that he can't do what he's doing? So, in that vein, if you think that making Viking Metal music is the thing for you, then go ahead and do it. People may raise eyebrows (like me), but look, if the music is good enough, and if you really think that you're Viking Metal (like Manowar think they're Germans!), then it's all good. Anyway, why should you give a fuck what everyone thinks? HAIL AND KILL!

EDIT: You're from South Africa. You're an Afrikaner, I'm assuming, so if you wanted to you could search Boer history for epic tales to write about. It's not just killing Zulus and Xhosas and Sotho and Hottentots! Think of Jan van Rieebeck (whatever the spelling), think of the Boer War, etc etc. It's all there for the taking! Mix it in with some Metal, make it different enough, and you've pioneered a genre, havent you?

The key word of Judas' post was 'origin'. It underpins the entire genre, and how many people listen to it. With this in mind, here are my thoughts -

Lyrics - as he said, lyrics have to concern the beliefs, practices and events around Nordic/Germanic cultures circa whenever. This doesn't restrict the genre to people with Nordic/Germanic heritage, but it's sure as hell going to affect how people listen to the band. Swedes singing about Odin and co. are going to seem a lot more honest than, say, an Australian band singing about the same topic. If the lyrics aren't about Viking events/beliefs, it's not Viking Metal. Whether you agree with it or not, the genre is quite strongly based in romantic nationalism. Bands ignoring this are like Christians playing Black Metal - they can make the music, but the spirit isn't there. Speaking of which...

Music - pretty similar to the issue of lyrics. Music has to be based off the musical traditions (ie. instruments, melodies, etc.) of the Vikings/whoever. It will probably seem more "genuine" if a Swedish/Danish/wherever band is making it, as they have inherited the culture and traditions of the Vikings. To kinda use Judas' example, imagine a band of Indian heritage playing Viking Metal - they would be a laughing stock. In playing Viking metal, a genre based largely on heritage and origins, they have necessarily betrayed their heritage and origins.

When you think about it, though, this is kinda fucked up. Just because a band's members' ancestors lived in a certain place, they're the only ones who can play the music in a "genuine" way? This idea is impractical and discriminatory. For that reason I don't support (this aspect of) Viking Metal ideology, and listen to it as simply the most Romantic, stirring music around.

(Of course, you can (and I do) always look past the nationalism stuff to get to a more basic, wide-reaching message, but that's a whole other matter, and I'm tired. Apologies for the shithouse structuring of this post and the underdevelopment of most ideas haha.)

Written by APOHAKC on 06.04.2007 at 12:36

Agree, almost all bands here are based on Slavim mythologie and culture, you already know that from my topic, anyway we don't have any Viking band around here

Actually Slavic and Viking culture are rather close as you know...Vikings sailed on the large rivers of old mam Ruis in the ancient times...so...yeh...Vikings, varyags created the first ancient realms in the old Ruis....I'd say that for example Holy Blood is one of the wonderful examples of slavic viking metal....there are more....so...there is so much in common....there even existed a mixed language of old norse and old russian...the cultures are indeed tied together very thoroughly....

Yes man, I know that very well, but again, we (Serbian Slavs) fought Vikings once and I would feel little, let say, strange to sing about glory of tribes we were at war. Viking, Slavic and Germanic mythologies are very strong related, especially Germanic and Slavic, we have some same Gods, (Perun for example is very often in Germanic mythologie, altough he is more like Russian Gos, here in Serbia we have Dazbog or Dabog) and Germanic and Nordic mythologies are also very related so it will have point to sing about Vikings here, but as I said before, no one is doing it. If I ever sing about any other mythologie but Slavic it would be Celtic mythologie, we had a lots of Celts here... in the ancient times though.

I know....Belgrad is a Celtic town....so...Celtic music and traditions would suit you extremely well......you're in a band yourself....this could give you some useful inspiration....

how about GOD? they're originally from romania, but they're not doing a really good job at viking metal, but i only have the portuguese EP(riders of heaven and hell) so you could check them out.

Written by Hyvaarin on 06.04.2007 at 17:36

The key word of Judas' post was 'origin'. It underpins the entire genre, and how many people listen to it. With this in mind, here are my thoughts -

Lyrics - as he said, lyrics have to concern the beliefs, practices and events around Nordic/Germanic cultures circa whenever. This doesn't restrict the genre to people with Nordic/Germanic heritage, but it's sure as hell going to affect how people listen to the band. Swedes singing about Odin and co. are going to seem a lot more honest than, say, an Australian band singing about the same topic. If the lyrics aren't about Viking events/beliefs, it's not Viking Metal. Whether you agree with it or not, the genre is quite strongly based in romantic nationalism. Bands ignoring this are like Christians playing Black Metal - they can make the music, but the spirit isn't there. Speaking of which...

Music - pretty similar to the issue of lyrics. Music has to be based off the musical traditions (ie. instruments, melodies, etc.) of the Vikings/whoever. It will probably seem more "genuine" if a Swedish/Danish/wherever band is making it, as they have inherited the culture and traditions of the Vikings. To kinda use Judas' example, imagine a band of Indian heritage playing Viking Metal - they would be a laughing stock. In playing Viking metal, a genre based largely on heritage and origins, they have necessarily betrayed their heritage and origins.

When you think about it, though, this is kinda fucked up. Just because a band's members' ancestors lived in a certain place, they're the only ones who can play the music in a "genuine" way? This idea is impractical and discriminatory. For that reason I don't support (this aspect of) Viking Metal ideology, and listen to it as simply the most Romantic, stirring music around.

(Of course, you can (and I do) always look past the nationalism stuff to get to a more basic, wide-reaching message, but that's a whole other matter, and I'm tired. Apologies for the shithouse structuring of this post and the underdevelopment of most ideas haha.)

lol seems like I opened a whole different can of worms on this one Its unfortunate but understandable how especially viking metal doesnt only entail a type of music but has a whole story to tell that other nationalities probably dont really relate to and that when they embrace it they probably end up looking a bit stupid because the fact is - they have no link to Vikings whatsoever. In the end it probably comes down to luck of the draw lol Had I been born in Sweden, my fascination with all this would look much less alien...

Well Hyvaarin and Judas pretty much said it. All though I believe that as long as you have an honest interest in the religion and have the fects sorted out you could make it work eventhough you're from SA

Written by Ernis on 06.04.2007 at 02:15

It is your soul which makes the thing....

This sums it up for me! If your spirit is with the music then it doesn't matter where you live. Besides, what if you live in Norway but your parents migrated there from, say, Canada? You're a Norwegian citizen but your "ancestors" may not be Vikings.

I enjoy Viking bands from Germany, Spain, Russia, and the Norse countries; my preference is for the bands with the most spirit

Written by GT on 09.04.2007 at 20:16

Well Hyvaarin and Judas pretty much said it. All though I believe that as long as you have an honest interest in the religion and have the fects sorted out you could make it work eventhough you're from SA

SA - Sout Africa or America?

Written by Susan on 10.04.2007 at 08:56

Written by Ernis on 06.04.2007 at 02:15

It is your soul which makes the thing....

This sums it up for me! If your spirit is with the music then it doesn't matter where you live. Besides, what if you live in Norway but your parents migrated there from, say, Canada? You're a Norwegian citizen but your "ancestors" may not be Vikings.

I enjoy Viking bands from Germany, Spain, Russia, and the Norse countries; my preference is for the bands with the most spirit

hmm in one point i agree about it but Canada near Atlatic ocean there was vikings and its somehow conected
Then you shood try Ukraian and belarussian viking bands awsome scene

Viking bands from Spain can you tell me one

@All BTW vikings was in Sicilia too so Italians also can play viking metal, even soem bands has heavy inspirated of vikings like Doomsword

Written by Bad English on 10.04.2007 at 11:08

Written by Susan on 10.04.2007 at 08:56

Written by Ernis on 06.04.2007 at 02:15

It is your soul which makes the thing....

This sums it up for me! If your spirit is with the music then it doesn't matter where you live. Besides, what if you live in Norway but your parents migrated there from, say, Canada? You're a Norwegian citizen but your "ancestors" may not be Vikings.

I enjoy Viking bands from Germany, Spain, Russia, and the Norse countries; my preference is for the bands with the most spirit

hmm in one point i agree about it but Canada near Atlatic ocean there was vikings and its somehow conected
Then you shood try Ukraian and belarussian viking bands awsome scene

Viking bands from Spain can you tell me one

@All BTW vikings was in Sicilia too so Italians also can play viking metal, even soem bands has heavy inspirated of vikings like Doomsword

By SA he means South Africa. Also, one reasonably well-known Viking band from Spain are Runic. The connection between Canada and Vikings is that Vinland (as described in the Icelandic Sagas, said to have been first 'found' by Leif Eriksson) is alleged to be Newfoundland, after a Norse settlement was discovered near the town of L'Anse aux Meadows. Oh, and Vikings were not confined to the North, well pointed out, there are actually records of them reaching as far South as Sicily, as far West as North America, and as far East as the Caspian Sea. But I think this could be discussed in another thread.

@Valaskjalf: If you decide to sing about your Boer ancestors, email me a sample of your songs, I want to hear this nascent 'Afrikaner Metal!'

@Judas - I know story about Leif Ericosn and whole situation in Norway, Iceland that time
But Runic - never had listening that band so no coments this time, but in this case band shod be in englihs IMNO viking metal cand be english(because of comecall point) and swedish, norvegian, danish and icelandis language, even finish dount count

So, Viking Metal bands that sing in English aren't really Viking Metal according to you then? Bathory, the band that pretty much started Viking Metal, had lyrics in English, man!

Written by Judas on 10.04.2007 at 17:46

So, Viking Metal bands that sing in English aren't really Viking Metal according to you then? Bathory, the band that pretty much started Viking Metal, had lyrics in English, man!

No I didnt mean that but but, english are language who sue almoust all bands , its because all can underdtand lurics but ist woud be weard listne viking metal in spanish or japanish, but in Scandic langueges ist ok, because its historical viking langueges

Me I for example wanna understand lyrics too but even if tahy are in XXX languege I will lsiten music, I can do it in ewery languege, and even for example Amon Amarth, ist be great thay made one song in Swedeish and Bathory respect man, I love that band

haha - yes.. the thing that I find funny is that people here love 'viking metal' and love viking and everything and just seem to forget that fact that vikings INVADED US!!! hahahahaha
haha - I have no hard feelings though.. back in my home town (I think one of the places the Scandinavians invaded) we have a statue of some Scandinavian guy (I think he is anyway)
I guess I have a Scandinavian surname as well - just mine is not with two 's's (how I think its more commonly spelled in Sweden for example..)

Couldnt it also depend upon whether or not you have scadanavian ancestory????????? I mean, i think it hasto sound like or have influences from traditional viking music ..... i dont know ... some one probobly said all this already...

Written by Baz Anderson on 10.04.2007 at 19:13

haha - yes.. the thing that I find funny is that people here love 'viking metal' and love viking and everything and just seem to forget that fact that vikings INVADED US!!! hahahahaha
haha - I have no hard feelings though.. back in my home town (I think one of the places the Scandinavians invaded) we have a statue of some Scandinavian guy (I think he is anyway)
I guess I have a Scandinavian surname as well - just mine is not with two 's's (how I think its more commonly spelled in Sweden for example..)

Haha Vikings made Dublin and some other towns in UK and you pay to Danish ppl taxes but it was Danish vikings in UK not Swedish, maybe lil Norvegians too but seems ppl in kilts scare them

Written by Bad English on 10.04.2007 at 20:47

Written by Baz Anderson on 10.04.2007 at 19:13

haha - yes.. the thing that I find funny is that people here love 'viking metal' and love viking and everything and just seem to forget that fact that vikings INVADED US!!! hahahahaha
haha - I have no hard feelings though.. back in my home town (I think one of the places the Scandinavians invaded) we have a statue of some Scandinavian guy (I think he is anyway)
I guess I have a Scandinavian surname as well - just mine is not with two 's's (how I think its more commonly spelled in Sweden for example..)

Haha Vikings made Dublin and some other towns in UK and you pay to Danish ppl taxes but it was Danish vikings in UK not Swedish, maybe lil Norvegians too but seems ppl in kilts scare them

You're speaking of kilts....may I remind you that only Celts wore kilts...and by the time of Viking invasions UK as you call that(which wasn't UK yet) was already inhabited by anglo-saxons.....and ANGLO-SAXONS aren't CELTS.....

DON'T treat Ireland as a part of UK!!! And Baile Atha Cliath isn't a town in UK....

But yeh....vikings indeed were in Ireland as well....here you are right indeed....

@Miotalhobad - I say UK about whole teritory also mea ing irland, because its easyer say UK how England, Irand, Walles

I talk about kilts and I KNOW who wear them but have you ewer thought why there are no VIKINGS in Scotland?

I KNOW that SAXONS are not CELTS!

Written by Bad English on 10.04.2007 at 22:19

@Miotalhobad - I say UK about whole teritory also mea ing irland, because its easyer say UK how England, Irand, Walles

I talk about kilts and I KNOW who wear them but have you ewer thought why there are no VIKINGS in Scotland?

I KNOW that SAXONS are not CELTS!

Well....it is WRONG to say UK because UK is United Kingdom....Ireland doesn't belong there at all at all....if you really wish to use a common name then it exists....and it is...the British Isles....

Ireland NOT IRAND
Wales not WALLES

I'm glad you know that saxons aren't celts....

Written by Ernis on 10.04.2007 at 23:12

Written by Bad English on 10.04.2007 at 22:19

@Miotalhobad - I say UK about whole teritory also mea ing irland, because its easyer say UK how England, Irand, Walles

I talk about kilts and I KNOW who wear them but have you ewer thought why there are no VIKINGS in Scotland?

I KNOW that SAXONS are not CELTS!

Well....it is WRONG to say UK because UK is United Kingdom....Ireland doesn't belong there at all at all....if you really wish to use a common name then it exists....and it is...the British Isles....

Ireland NOT IRAND
Wales not WALLES

I'm glad you know that saxons aren't celts....

Well well I know but is sthorter man

And yes Celts was there before anglo-saxons then tahy come and then franks wanna more