DsO are calling to arms again...

That's an intro boys.

More promising than they've been in a long time. More analogue sound, comprehensible songwriting, good atmosphere. Hopefully they'll keep in key with this.

Also, this method of "Surprise, fuckfaces" album releases is the best way to release albums.

We haven't had any new DsO in 3 years so i was hoping to hear some news soon but honestly didn't expect a song+video along with the announcement. Today is a good day.

After listening to the song i gotta say it's...interesting. It's not a bad song i just hope there'll be more blast beats on the album. Hyped for it nonetheless

And they're including a 20 page booklet this time with the CD version, so hopefully the physical version is worth picking up more than the last one.

Absolute hype. Hasjarl is one of the most innovative guitar players. Looking forward to seeing where he is going to take us.

And some important details: The album is recorded live with analogue gear.

Beautiful art. Always excited to study and learn Deathspells meanings.

So, "Palingenesia" sounds like the name of a place undergoing "Palingenesis" (lit. "Rebirth") which is a concept similar to "Eternal Return" (big thing in Indian religions and Nietzschean philosophy) in that the cosmos is re-created over and over in cycles. It can also refer to reincarnation. Hence this "Palingenesia" as I interpret it is just our universe, assuming time repeats itself in cycles eternally. Not a lot of connection to Abrahamic religion at first glance, interesting...

As added on the Noevdia website : "The Furnaces of Palingenesia is Janus in the midst of the 9th circle of Hell; a prophetic abomination recorded on gear ante anno 1984 vomiting 2084 in the shadows of the horns"

Uh oh, LoG found out about DsO's NSBM connections and activated Tumblr-mode.

I think it's a sad state of affairs if bands now have to come out and state publically that they aren't racist etc. Or be apolitical, which is impossible. Is anything with a bit of mystery treated with suspicion now? Seems like the beginning of the end of art to me. Then again I don't care at all about a band's ideology, has never affected my enjoyment of music.

I agree with Joe. And I really doubt a band like DsO is concerned about the current BM affairs or the need to make a statement. After all, they don't have to safeguard their image or public appearances, as those don't happen. No dependance on the Thought Police to develop their activities, which is always positive.

Highly anticipating this, more so after the good yet not quite satisfying Synarchy. Been listening the track on daily basis since release, everything about it is brilliant.

As far as I know Mikko doesn't write any lyrics. Only does vocals for DSO. Maybe someone could confim or deny this.

People who prioritize morality and politics over aesthetic appreciation will forever be at odds with more extreme art forms.

It's a given that it won't be for all palates, but works expected to conform to moral boundaries and culled of their potential for transgression cannot really be called art.

(If contemporary music with a strong political charge is still up for being considered 'art' rather than a full-blown commodity with a provenly identified consumer base that will happily lap up all that a 'brand' pours out, that is another matter entirely)

Written by Mercurial on 11.05.2019 at 01:42

I think it's a sad state of affairs if bands now have to come out and state publically that they aren't racist etc. Or be apolitical, which is impossible. Is anything with a bit of mystery treated with suspicion now? Seems like the beginning of the end of art to me. Then again I don't care at all about a band's ideology, has never affected my enjoyment of music.

'Concerned artists' = involved artists, people who have already been accused of fascist or racist ideology, for justified reasons.
Mikko is a racist and a fascist, it's a given fact and not just conspiracy bullshit.

You will not place your drumkit in front of a swastika flag to demonstrate that you're not supporting NS ideology.
You will not say "I don't necessarily like gypsies or street n#ggers here" to show disapproval of racist beliefs.
But that's what he did and that's what he said.
This and his infamous publications (you probably know what I mean) allow only one conclusion: this guy is nothing but scum.

Yes, it is sad.
It's sad that specific individuals are misusing their "art" in order to spread and promote dubious ideologies. If freedom of art really is being endangered, than thanks to people like Mikko Aspa and bands supporting him.

I don't mind DsO and I don't mind people loving their music. But I'm tired of people blindly defending their vocalist and suspecting leftist conspiracies just about anywhere although it's so damn obvious that this guy is a f#cken scumbag.

I was surprised they're coming out with a new album already, but apparently it has been 3 years since the last one. I don't even remember what that one sounded like to be honest, it just got lost in the sea of average dissonant black metal of the 2010s. This new song is far more memorable, fortunately.

Written by Starvynth on 11.05.2019 at 05:27

'Concerned artists' = involved artists, people who have already been accused of fascist or racist ideology, for justified reasons.
Mikko is a racist and a fascist, it's a given fact and not just conspiracy bullshit.

You will not place your drumkit in front of a swastika flag to demonstrate that you're not supporting NS ideology.
You will not say "I don't necessarily like gypsies or street n#ggers here" to show disapproval of racist beliefs.
But that's what he did and that's what he said.
This and his infamous publications (you probably know what I mean) allow only one conclusion: this guy is nothing but scum.

Yes, it is sad.
It's sad that specific individuals are misusing their "art" in order to spread and promote dubious ideologies. If freedom of art really is being endangered, than thanks to people like Mikko Aspa and bands supporting him.

I don't mind DsO and I don't mind people loving their music. But I'm tired of people blindly defending their vocalist and suspecting leftist conspiracies just about anywhere although it's so damn obvious that this guy is a f#cken scumbag.

I don't disagree with you about Mikko. Terrible human, and also mostly talentless when divorced with DsO. That being said, when you start moralising about individuals involved in extreme music you go down a path where you need to question a vast swath of bands you listen to, or are at risk of hypocrisy. Like Emperor? Condoning a murderer. Mayhem, a host to a homophobe. Leviathan, a woman beater. And so on, until it gets to the point where you're only listening to the purest of bands who probably make awful music. I'd rather lie in bed with them and enjoy everything I can with the implicit understanding of the questionable nature of the people behind it. At least then I can choose not to directly support them with shows or merch. I think everyone should have a basic understanding of who they're listening to, but I don't think anyone should necessarily be judged for enjoying the music (unless they're actively seeking out red-flag material for non-academic reasons in which case I might have to wonder about them).

I do disagree about the idea of "misusing art" however. Whether or not DsO is promoting some sort of spurious ideology is up to them, whether it be through Mikko or not. Bands for decades have been using various iconography, for both shock effect, satire or in a serious light. You can't misuse art imo. The fact a black metal band is riling up the hysterical LoG's of the world, to me just shows that it's working as intended (who, as of at least yesterday has rated the other Mikko DsO albums 8 and 9 which is interesting considering his views here and the "boring" music in question).

Written by Mercurial on 11.05.2019 at 11:17
I don't disagree with you about Mikko. Terrible human, and also mostly talentless when divorced with DsO.

And Fleshpress! Man, no one remembers Fleshpress.

But yeah, dude's a dick. But not like it was any news.

Quote:

Written by X-Ray Rod on 11.05.2019 at 11:51

don't disagree with you about Mikko. Terrible human, and also mostly talentless when divorced with DsO.

And Fleshpress! Man, no one remembers Fleshpress.

But yeah, dude's a dick. But not like it was any news.

Well I definitely enjoyed a Fleshpress album, forget which one. Maybe a the odd other thing he did (to be fair his lolita stuff isn't bad as power electronics goes).

I treat every band member as an arsehole, because it seems like I would get it right 50% of the time anyway.

Written by Mercurial on 11.05.2019 at 11:17

I don't disagree with you about Mikko. Terrible human, and also mostly talentless when divorced with DsO. That being said, when you start moralising about individuals involved in extreme music you go down a path where you need to question a vast swath of bands you listen to, or are at risk of hypocrisy. Like Emperor? Condoning a murderer. Mayhem, a host to a homophobe. Leviathan, a woman beater. And so on, until it gets to the point where you're only listening to the purest of bands who probably make awful music. I'd rather lie in bed with them and enjoy everything I can with the implicit understanding of the questionable nature of the people behind it. At least then I can choose not to directly support them with shows or merch. I think everyone should have a basic understanding of who they're listening to, but I don't think anyone should necessarily be judged for enjoying the music (unless they're actively seeking out red-flag material for non-academic reasons in which case I might have to wonder about them).

I do disagree about the idea of "misusing art" however. Whether or not DsO is promoting some sort of spurious ideology is up to them, whether it be through Mikko or not. Bands for decades have been using various iconography, for both shock effect, satire or in a serious light. You can't misuse art imo. The fact a black metal band is riling up the hysterical LoG's of the world, to me just shows that it's working as intended (who, as of at least yesterday has rated the other Mikko DsO albums 8 and 9 which is interesting considering his views here and the "boring" music in question).

Well said and I agree about most of your points.

The only thing I fail to comprehend is this particular chain of arguments:
You: Seems like the beginning of the end of art to me.
Me: It's sad that specific individuals are misusing their "art" in order to spread and promote dubious ideologies. If freedom of art really is being endangered, than thanks to people like Mikko Aspa and bands supporting him.
You: I do disagree about the idea of "misusing art" however.

I mean, if you do see the end of art approaching, then there just has to be a scapegoat.
But are the facists and racists to blame or the people rightfully stamping them fascist and racist?
By the way, this is a rhetorical question.

Anyway, just like you, I try to seperate the music from the artists' ideologies.
I have added the album and their video to the database and didn't even bother thinking about it.
After all, it's just a band and people are enjoying their music.

But as already said, it's also about free decisions.
Mikko has chosen to be a racist and DsO have chosen to keep him in their ranks.
Some people have chosen to point their fingers at racist ideologies and fascist movements.
Some other people have chosen to point their fingers at individuals who are not willing to tolerate these obnoxious tendencies.

What I am trying to say is: if people are having no problem in ignoring the intentions of racists like Mikko, why can't the same people ignore individuals who are not willing to shut their eyes to what is happening?
After all, Mikko has crossed one of the final frontiers of free speech and free art and he's not just talking bullshit but openly supporting loathsome ideologies.

Written by Starvynth on 11.05.2019 at 13:51

Well said and I agree about most of your points.

The only thing I fail to comprehend is this particular chain of arguments:
You: Seems like the beginning of the end of art to me.
Me: It's sad that specific individuals are misusing their "art" in order to spread and promote dubious ideologies. If freedom of art really is being endangered, than thanks to people like Mikko Aspa and bands supporting him.
You: I do disagree about the idea of "misusing art" however.

I mean, if you do see the end of art approaching, then there just has to be a scapegoat.
But are the facists and racists to blame or the people rightfully stamping them fascist and racist?
By the way, this is a rhetorical question.

It may for me be more to do with somewhat reactionary attitudes to certain bands and their output, and the status quo that results. If we're in a situation where a band has to outright state that "this isn't racist" because they employed some rather light, bog standard totalitarian imagery then that signals a bit of a devolution of artistic interpretation and attitudes, if that makes any sense. I would prefer people didn't broadly go to absolutes and say "right, you guys need to clear some shit up before I take a critical look at what you're doing" or go to the next level and wage war with anyone that engages with the music. If people are only now doing that with DsO then that's really their own fault, because they should have questioned it earlier when Mikko joined the band, instead of enjoying their equally lame and gimmicky pseudo-religious Satanic themes. It was still helmed by a pedo-fascist after all.

It's the idea of "stamping" something as you say based on preconceptions and personal ideological bias, rather than engaging in some sort of discourse, as you've thankfully done, as opposed to LoG's typical, somewhat unintellectual and ad hom-laced input.

I might be misunderstanding what you're saying though so just ignore me if I am.

For me the video doesn't really say anything one way or another, it's just uncontextualised images in a vacuum, so for people to suddenly abandon all enjoyment of them and retroactively hate on the band seems a bit erratic to me and probably says more about them than the music. I actually like the video though, but I am quite plebby when it comes to cool, black and white art bollocks.

Quote:
Anyway, just like you, I try to seperate the music from the artists' ideologies.
I have added the album and their video to the database and didn't even bother thinking about it.
After all, it's just a band and people are enjoying their music.

But as already said, it's also about free decisions.
Mikko has chosen to be a racist and DsO have chosen to keep him in their ranks.
Some people have chosen to point their fingers at racist ideologies and fascist movements.
Some other people have chosen to point their fingers at individuals who are not willing to tolerate these obnoxious tendencies.

What I am trying to say is: if people are having no problem in ignoring the intentions of racists like Mikko, why can't the same people ignore individials who are not willing to shut their eyes to what is happening?
After all, Mikko has crossed one of the final frontiers of free speech and free art and he's not just talking bullshit but openly supporting loathsome ideologies.

I guess I'm firmly in the MS band-acceptance camp where band and members are considered separate entities. I'm not quite willing to accept DsO are now, all of a sudden, promoting fascist ideas, however I would definitely be willing to hear solid arguments that they are, rather than engaging with people that have already jumped to a conclusion and are now pre-emptively attacking those that haven't even had time to engage in discourse in the first place. There's always room for discussion, and I will admit they are walking a fine line.

But if DsO are now doing the NSBM thing, it's so subtle as to be pointless. Why promote an idea if no one's really sure they're doing it in the first place? Just seems odd to me.

I do find it odd and funny though that there are those that act as though black metal has always been squeaky clean and only now needs to be neutered. I mean it's black metal. It's stupid and cliche and cringe, but it has also pushed boundaries, both questionable and otherwise. For me it needs to stay that way. To cull it is to basically kill it.

Written by Mercurial on 11.05.2019 at 14:16

I might be misunderstanding what you're saying though so just ignore me if I am.

Not at all.
I'd even say that we have found some common consensus: basically, it's about dumb people.
Some of them are following despicable doctrines and some of them believe in conspiracies just because they want to believe and to have their own prejudices confirmed. Either way, they're dumb.

Quote:

For me the video doesn't really say anything one way or another, it's just uncontextualised images in a vacuum[...].

You're probably right. Taken out of context, this is just a random video. Could be any Black Metal or Industrial Metal band, could be early Laibach, could even be Rammstein (who, by the way, have just released a new video containing footage of L. Riefenstahl, so this comparison doesn't even fall short).

But with some background knowledge, I really do see quite a lot of NS symbolisms, the iron SS runes falling from the sky to strike down enemies at 2:45 is probably the most obvious one.

Written by Starvynth on 11.05.2019 at 16:26

You're probably right. Taken out of context, this is just a random video. Could be any Black Metal or Industrial Metal band, could be early Laibach, could even be Rammstein (who, by the way, have just released a new video containing footage of L. Riefenstahl, so this comparison doesn't even fall short).

But with some background knowledge, I really do see quite a lot of NS symbolisms, the iron SS runes falling from the sky to strike down enemies at 2:45 is probably the most obvious one.

Good point. In most bands' cases I would probably dismiss it as them not really understanding the gravity of the images they've used, but in DsO's case they tend to be sticklers for details so probably intentional to a degree. Guess we'll see what they do with it with the full thing and whether there's some implicit, or otherwise, messages going on.

The internet made us engage excessively with the metadata, we know way more about artists' personal worldviews than ever before and the barrier of awareness has gotten paper-thin. People will come directly from far beyond the sphere of music appreciation to engage - tossed by whatever link - guided by an unspoken but almost deliberate desire to be shocked.

Narrowing down from art in general to black metal particularly: if it isn't shocking to some degree then it's just a bunch of undertalented LotR reenactors clad in black. Once sanitized, might as well give it the ole'mercy shot.

Of course, nobody sane would recommend this Aspa fellow but it is trivially easy nowadays to purvey music without the creators seeing a dime of it. The golden rule remains to think critically. Telling other folk from atop the highest horse what they should or shouldn't enjoy, well, there's a thing that historically has enjoyed nothing if not a stellar track record.

20 comments in one day? keep going

Written by Starvynth on 11.05.2019 at 01:18

I believe Black Metal and music in general should either be completely apolitical or concerned artists should at least clearly renounce all kinds of fascist symbolism, political propaganda and NS esthetic.

do you use the same standard for the significantly more cruel, destructive and deadly communism, or only in this one instance?

Written by theFIST on 14.05.2019 at 23:42

do you use the same standard for the significantly more cruel, destructive and deadly communism, or only in this one instance?

Are you serious about your question?
I mean, is commie Black Metal a big issue in Austria right now?

Written by Guest on 14.05.2019 at 23:57

Written by theFIST on 14.05.2019 at 23:42

the significantly more cruel, destructive and deadly communism

Sounds interesting, link to that album?

Need me some tankie bm

Written by Czerny Reiter on 11.05.2019 at 03:59

People who prioritize morality and politics over aesthetic appreciation will forever be at odds with more extreme art forms.

It's a given that it won't be for all palates, but works expected to conform to moral boundaries and culled of their potential for transgression cannot really be called art.

This is the point that I feel is sadly being lost in much of the contemporary art culture of today, the fact that art is always (ideally, at least) meant to tear down walls as opposed to erecting them and staying within the confines of prevailing social customs and sensitivities. Many artists today that are regarded as "classic" and recognized for their importance, such as William Blake, Poe, the Beats, the Dadaists, etc., were derided and considered as obscene in their time. I'm not saying that metal bands today that flirt with fascist, white supremacist, and Nazi imagery will go down in history as "classic," or even that they receive my support (certainly not), but they are nonetheless staying true to the spirit of transgression at the core of artistry in their own way, so with that in mind, I find it difficult to really point and say "no, you shouldn't be doing that", even if I may personally disagree with the beliefs that drive their work.

Written by RaduP on 15.05.2019 at 00:33

Need me some tankie bm

I recall this from a few years back, though I don't think they're really promoting communism or anything, more so just writing about the Russian Revolution, so not sure if "tankie black metal" is a fitting label.