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Posted by Zombie on 11.10.2010 at 15:16
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bj_waters

Posts: 263

Age: 31
From: USA

  08.03.2016 at 05:45
Written by Enteroctopus on 08.03.2016 at 02:17
I think original Christianity was radically different than what we see today. There is a Key and Peele sketch about this which I think is perfect (sorry no link, gotta pay to see that stuff!) A religious group asks God to please speak to them and he does, and he says thing like:

"Give up all material possessions and quit your job. Give your life to the service of your fellow man and be true at all times to my Commandments..."

They're all, "THIS HOUSE IS HAUNTED!! WE GOTTA GO!"

It's a joke, a skit, but I think that's a pretty accurate representation of how people would actually react to what Jesus actually would have asked of them.


Heh, that's kinda funny.

I believe there has been quite a bit of research noting the differences between Christianity in the first 300 years and today. While I know it can be a major point of contention among other Christians, it is something that I, as a Mormon, do agree with.

I don't know if you want to bother reading my disgustingly huge post I made up above where I give a Mormon 101, but in there I mentioned the idea that while Christ did establish his doctrine (and a church to maintain it), things fell apart, priesthood authority was lost, and Christianity (and especially the Bible) became subject to a centuries-long game of "telephone." In the end, things got twisted or lost over time and many are simply trying to make the most of what's left.

This is what makes the Mormon position so unique. Even though we see the Bible as the Word of God (despite its flaws), we believe that God has called a new prophet (like Moses) to preach his gospel in purity and establish a church just like Christ did during his ministry. While we think we can learn and grow from what God has said in the past, we also focus on what God is saying to us today through His apostles. (In fact, if you wish, you can watch them speak in April in a broadcast on the internet that occurs twice a year.)

Of course, believing that God has a new prophet and speaks to humanity today requires as much faith as believing in God in the first place. However, I do think Mormonism does maintain an interesting place in the religious and philosophical landscape, showing that Christianity can be relevant in today's world, and not some decaying "old time tradition" that critics might think it to be.

Then again, I am a Mormon, and I think that biases me a little.
Enteroctopus

Posts: 155
From: USA

  08.03.2016 at 19:10
I must say I've quite enjoyed talking with you. It's refreshing that we can share different perspectives and for this not to turn into a flame-fest! I did read your post and thought you summed it up pretty well.

I suspect there is a common mystical experience that is simply interpreted differently based upon the worldview one believes at the time. Even atheists such as Neil DeGrasse Tyson (Cosmos, etc.) describe almost mystical experiences related to exploring the distant universe and/or imagining the possibilities of life on other planets, etc.

I would define a mystical experience as the Self being revealed for the fake that it is as one discovers an intimate connection with the universe, life, God and so on. In terms of my own experiences, at one point in high school I recall one night thinking about how ridiculous it is that I try and behave a certain way because I'm "supposed" to belong to a certain group, and all of this pretending that we are "jocks" or "nerds" or whatever is all a bunch of crap, because it is! It allowed me to branch out musically into Jazz and Classical, and I even started listening to Alternative and Grunge music. Oh, the horror!

It opened my mind up, and it made me a lot better person, and a better musician.

I was fortunate enough to live close to some very beautiful land, a state park or two, and would go bike riding through the foothills. I'd sit and watch nature and began to realize I was more than some kid in a Slayer t-shirt. I'm a living being, and that's bigger than being an "American" or a "Christian" or any of the other things we might identify with. Once I realized I was something more than the labels I had tried to conform to I was a whole lot happier. I was also able to stand by my convictions, my taste in music, whatever, because I don't "have" to be anything other than alive, and being alive is pretty cool!

I majored in Biology, got my degree in dentistry and people call me Dr.

I still listen to metal almost constantly. Some things will never change.
bj_waters

Posts: 263

Age: 31
From: USA

  09.03.2016 at 00:11
Written by Enteroctopus on 08.03.2016 at 19:10
I would define a mystical experience as the Self being revealed for the fake that it is as one discovers an intimate connection with the universe, life, God and so on. In terms of my own experiences, at one point in high school I recall one night thinking about how ridiculous it is that I try and behave a certain way because I'm "supposed" to belong to a certain group, and all of this pretending that we are "jocks" or "nerds" or whatever is all a bunch of crap, because it is!


Sounds like a spiritual experience to me!

(I'm not saying you should start believing in God or anything; just that it's important to recognize and remember those moments where your self-awareness helps you make decisions in your life!)

Written by Enteroctopus on 08.03.2016 at 19:10
It allowed me to branch out musically into Jazz and Classical, and I even started listening to Alternative and Grunge music. Oh, the horror!


Heh.

Written by Enteroctopus on 08.03.2016 at 19:10
I must say I've quite enjoyed talking with you. It's refreshing that we can share different perspectives and for this not to turn into a flame-fest!


Indeed. Who says every discussion about religion or philosophy has to be contentious and alienating?!
FOOCK Nam

Posts: 3571

Age: 28
From: Vietnam

  09.03.2016 at 05:40
We dont know what is in the other side of black hole, the thing Stephen Hawking discovered. He doesnt believe in God, all scientist mostly dont believe, but actually the questio about Gods real or not is still havent been proved.

Luckil you know my thought and what ive been through, firstly research about ghost, you will know ghost can be real. If ghosts real then God can be real.

Secondly, who the fuck has created black hole and universe
Thirdly, what the hell is on the other side of the black hole. Imaginedly, one side has our universe with sun galaxy and other star and potentially galaxy and other potential life made planets, and the other side of black hole,wha is it inside..

But mostly i believe in God cuz Ghost is real.. So thats fun..

Anyway if just say so for you if need prayer to God whenyou i trouble you can Do so..
Enteroctopus

Posts: 155
From: USA

  09.03.2016 at 16:55
It's not accurate nor fair to generalize scientists as a monolithic group. While it's true that many famous scientists are outspoken atheists (Richard Dawkins is probably the best example) there are countless examples of devoted believers among their ranks. Also, certain religions tend to be more attractive to scientists, like Catholicism which officially embraces the Big Bang and Evolution, where certain evangelical Protestant sects are strongly opposed to these ideas.

Einstein famously envoked God in some of his most controversial stances, "God does not play dice," etc. Edwin Hubble, if I remember correctly, was also a theist.

I think the science of the very large, namely Astrophysics and General Relativity, are more in line with religious doctrine while fields such as evolutionary biology and genetics may be a bit more tricky to reconcile with religious beliefs.

In physics scientists are torn, it seems, between the Elegant and the Chaos. Brian Greene, while not a theist as far as I'm aware, is faithful in String Theory which posits that everything, virtually everything fits neatly into a mathematical model. It's enticing. And similarly Einstein was a fan of a closed Universe (not infinite) with a beginning and an end, which again is reassuring, even allowing a crack in the window for the possibility of something like God to step in.

Others have argued that such beliefs are mere conjecture and their devotees nothing more than fools.

Science is by no means a united front of atheist fundamentalism.
FOOCK Nam

Posts: 3571

Age: 28
From: Vietnam

  10.03.2016 at 04:06
If you can answer my question, very detailedfully without high mind needed,"is Ghost real" ?, then some % of the whole quetion about God's realism can be found.
FOOCK Nam

Posts: 3571

Age: 28
From: Vietnam

  10.03.2016 at 04:14
@Enteroctopus: i think you guys's knowledge and worldview of big picture is good, but try to be more simple in the approach of unanswered matters. I ve seen the other metalstormers with lots of knowledge but imho needs to be more focus on simple detail when apply your knowledge on,.. Ive seen some guy like IronAngel very good scientific terminology.. Blah. You know Einstein said "if you cant explain your point in simple words, you are not fully understand the matter point". Try to make it simple answer.. The more it short the more it simple the more you understand it. Long words is specific explain, of course long words is need but when sum up, try it short n simple..
Enteroctopus

Posts: 155
From: USA

  10.03.2016 at 18:32
Written by FOOCK Nam on 10.03.2016 at 04:14

@Enteroctopus: i think you guys's knowledge and worldview of big picture is good, but try to be more simple in the approach of unanswered matters. I ve seen the other metalstormers with lots of knowledge but imho needs to be more focus on simple detail when apply your knowledge on,..

Fair enough, simple is good. I respect Neil De Grasse Tyson because he does a great job of explaining astrophysics on layman's terms. It's not "dumbed down," either. Carl Sagan was great at that, too. I'd like to be able to do that.

wrt asking questions about the nature of the universe, god, ghosts, Hawking, I'm afraid it's got to get a bit complicated. Can you help us by focusing on one question?

Written by FOOCK Nam on 09.03.2016 at 05:40

We dont know what is in the other side of black hole, the thing Stephen Hawking discovered. He doesnt believe in God, all scientist mostly dont believe, but actually the questio about Gods real or not is still havent been proved.

Luckil you know my thought and what ive been through, firstly research about ghost, you will know ghost can be real. If ghosts real then God can be real.

What is a ghost anyway? I suspect it has something to do with the way the brain is wired. We sort of fill in the gaps in our perception to make up for our imperfect eyesight, etc. If you catch a glimpse of a shadow you're going to tend to see a person, if that's what you're used to. It's a survival thing. If you're used to running away from tigers you will probably see a tiger. The brain sees things that aren't there because it is so darn good at seeing things that are. There's a error every now and again.

And who said God is a ghost?

Written by FOOCK Nam on 09.03.2016 at 05:40

Secondly, who the fuck has created black hole and universe

Why must there be a creator? How about a cyclic universe with Big Bang -> Big Crunch repeated forever? No one's ruled out that theory yet.

It could be that the universe simply is. We expect a creation, a beginning, middle and end because that's how life goes for us. We also expect particles to behave like marbles when in fact they behave like particles - they follow their own physics which seems strange to us. I don't expect the universe to be any different in that respect, it's going to behave like a universe.

We follow the universe's rules, the universe does not care about ours.

"I'm supposed to have a CREATOR?!"

Written by FOOCK Nam on 09.03.2016 at 05:40

Thirdly, what the hell is on the other side of the black hole. Imaginedly, one side has our universe with sun galaxy and other star and potentially galaxy and other potential life made planets, and the other side of black hole,wha is it inside..

We don't know, but Hawking's theories have shed some light on the physics near black holes. Inside could be another universe? Who knows?

Certain things are not knowable and the inner workings of a black hole may be one of them.
FOOCK Nam

Posts: 3571

Age: 28
From: Vietnam

  10.03.2016 at 22:12
Enteroctopus: if you ever chase ghosts, it kind of like part of human soul remain, but until now science still undiscover what exactly ghosts is.. If ghosts are real,... Now use the logic,from beginnig of 2000 years, priests and Christian authority have use Bible and all other religious tools to deal with ghosts, not only Christianity but other religion too... So if ghost is real then the Church has its power too, then Jesus is real, then ghost, spirits, demons, satan can be real,... Then God is real..

The second question i dont disagree uz i have no arguemental theory, if the universe and black hole is like that then ok i can have no imagination who makes it ceate it..

Thirdly i just imply the other side of black hole can be another world soul spirit like heaven, no i just mean we dont know nothing about, and its influence to human world,.. We dont know maybe heaven there, maybe other universe..,

If you suppose there is no God if there is other planet aliens exist etc... Then like the Pope says If God send other Jesus to them like to us ?...

But above all, my theory pretty true cuz if ghost is real then God can be real... Becaus other supernatural n God is supernatural too, if ghost is real, ghost is supernatural, blah blah then all that shit supernatural are real, God among it or maybe God make ghosts.. Use logic n intuition... Blah, i mean e.g you know lots dealing Ghost by exorcism,...soul research etc.. All that shit still makes human race wonder.. And we been using Bible and all that magic religion occult etc in the nam of God to dis ghost..,.. So if ghosts is real, then God n powersupernatural is real..

Now speaking of evidence of ghosts, you can look at ghost photos, those real true unexplainable photos that ghosts appear there, stuff like that cant be explain or still remain makes human race wonder and still finding the answer.. I encourage you follow reasear of ghosts photos, picture, videos, tv show about ghost, exorcism, reincarnation, religion, stories of ghost, occult etc.. Actually i dont comfirm God or ghost real but if you look at or been through the research of ghosts then you will think ghost is real then God is real..

Try reasearch the occult then you will know.. Brain can decieve, but picture capture.. How about it..

Of course im no scientist, if you say like universe works its way physics work, n it is what it is like that.. Then how opposedly
I would say like it is what it is God makes it all, its like that.. Nothing else.. Even im more of rational science guy, im pretty impressed of ghost evidence..

If ghosts is real then all stuff shit like demons, satans, dragon can be real but lost evidence.. N most powerful is God the supetnatural toughest can be real...n stuff like reincarnation, sins etc karma..

Try research bout ghost follow all tv show about stuff similar like that..

Thoough i think Vatican and other powerful organization do reasearch about ghosts, aliens etc.. Yes Vatiacan too,exorcism, reincarnation etc.. They do have knlowdege on stuff like that than general human individual like me n u too.. I think... Alright, i dont impose or argue,just assume.. I know you are dentist, like scientist way, but what i assume pretty interesting..
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck

Posts: 38925

Age: 48
From: The Netherlands

  11.03.2016 at 00:18
There is no proof whatsoever that ghosts exist.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Enteroctopus

Posts: 155
From: USA

  19.04.2016 at 23:22
An interesting possibility I have considered is a purely digital entity. Consciousness is basically just a product or property of our mental processes anyway, so at what point do computers, "wake up?"

What if the Internet, "wakes up?"

I suppose it would need us around to maintain its servers and stuff like that, so at least we would have a slave role.

To me, if I go to the zoo and watch, like, a frog it seems pretty happy to me. Like, it doesn't give a shit that it's stuck in a box with people staring at it all day, whatever? I think we long to get back to that type of mind, like the Buddha, right?

Makes a lot more sense that if you stick around at all, in whatever form, you'd attain this, "whatever," attitude vs living forever in this idealistic paradise. What do you do all day in Heaven, anyway? Fly around in the clouds and play your harp?

Life has played around with different concepts that then just got trashed in favor of other concepts. Like dinosaurs. Life played around with BIG for a few million years, then big got boring and life decided to play around with clever. Now we're oh, so clever, but we're constantly searching around for the secret to happiness, when the secret to happiness is sitting in a pile of shit and eating insects. It's not caring that people are staring at you all day in your little plastic box.

I think that's what will happen, not literally. But long after humankind has blown itself to bits and every trace of our civilization has been overgrown with vines there will still be people around, and they'll be running around in loincloths eating berries and shit, and they'll be a lot happier than we are. They won't particularly give a shit that they just run around half-naked eating berries all day, every day. Little enlightened, Hippie Yodas, aka indigenous people. After three or four generations we'll forget we even got civilized, and any remaining man-made towers will become the houses of our wind god and our water god, etc.

Intelligence will reach some pinnacle, and maybe it's us (probably not). Maybe it's the Internet itself, some superorganism of transistors and hard drives and RAM. Maybe one day we'll just get sick of the whole thing and unplug the sonovabitch!!
FOOCK Nam

Posts: 3571

Age: 28
From: Vietnam

  22.04.2016 at 10:17
@Enteroctopus: what you're saying is "peace of mind", refers to like you are always content with what you have, what you are about.. There are ppl reach to it already but not all whole world mankind.. Myself personally i reach it by research sprituality... Luckily guys know my thought, i think and observed "peace of mind" is everything. And important most. Try to reach n have it.

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