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Does a genre called "Extreme Power Metal" really exist?
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Original post

Posted by marinBG, 01.09.2006 - 21:39
I don't know whe ever tought of that name at all... and the strangest thing is when I see that Children Of Bodom are listed like that... quite frankly it pisses me off quite a lot!
and the most annoying thing is that I've read for example Alexi Laiho say that it doesn't matter how that style of the band is reffered to by people no matter if they say black, death or whatever kind of metal AS LONG AS IT'S NOT POWER METAL! And I really don't think that Children Of Bodom and Manowar for example should be both counted in the same cathegory... and I don't really think that the word "extreeme" changes so much... and I don't think it's the same style at all... for me the two styles have nothing in common...
and I think it is alfully rude and wrong to try to push a genre name to people that even the bands that are supposed to be in do not agree with... for me the most important opinion about stuff like that is the one of the people who create the music... there for if a band does not consider themselves something, you don't have the right to tell them what kind of music they play... especially when the bands is not made from complete retards...
I think people here should drop this gender name and go with melodic death metal or something... or finnish melodic death metal... or in other cases with Gothenburg Metal or something... But for me Extreeme Power Metal is comlitly incorrect... especially for Children Of Bodom

Poll

Do you agree with such genre label?

Yep! I think it's correct...
202
Whatever man... it doesn't really matter
143
Nope, I think it's incorrect!!!
89
I don't like it but it's ok!
29

Total votes: 463
02.09.2006 - 19:07
Markku
Account deleted
Quote:
Quote:
Genres are NOT defined by lyrics. Nor styles of singing.
Lyrics, no. But vocal is just another instrument and saying it doesn't matter how you use it is same as saying it doesn't matter how you play the guitar.


I'd disagree here. many bands that musically belong to one genre use vocals which are mostly used in other genres. Like the death metal band Aurora Borealis, they as deat has they can be but the vocals are what you'd probably call black metal high pitched vocals.
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02.09.2006 - 19:17
Draklar
Account deleted
Written by Guest on 02.09.2006 at 19:07

I'd disagree here. many bands that musically belong to one genre use vocals which are mostly used in other genres. Like the death metal band Aurora Borealis, they as deat has they can be but the vocals are what you'd probably call black metal high pitched vocals.
And since when bands playing one genre cannot borrow elements from other genres?
Just the fact you connect such vocals with black metal proves my point.
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02.09.2006 - 19:22
Markku
Account deleted
I just sayed that vocal style is irrelevant in defining(which is theoretically impossible) a genre .
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02.09.2006 - 19:23
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by Guest on 02.09.2006 at 18:57

Lyrics, no. But vocal is just another instrument and saying it doesn't matter how you use it is same as saying it doesn't matter how you play the guitar.


Ehh, then what do you say about black metal with clean vocals?
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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02.09.2006 - 19:25
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by Arian Totalis on 02.09.2006 at 18:06


tsk tsk....was I so rude as to blatently tell you to shut up? no. If we're going to disscuss this, then let's actually disscuss it. Not get angry and tell each other to shut up, if you don't want to talk about it, just tell me
and I'll respectfully back off.

But back to the subject of power metal, Just look at bands Like Iced Earth, Iron Maiden, Blind Guardian, Dragonforce, 3 inches of blood, etc, the list goes on and on, they all have similar vocal styles and lyrics, and it's not true that a genre isn't defined by lyrics or vocal quality, I mean, it's not ALWAYS about the vocals or lyrics, but sometimes it does truly help to define a genre. Look at Death Metal, Part of what makes Death Metal what it is is the characteristic death screach, with dark disruptive lyrics. Now Death metal has other things which make it Death(Like Blastbeats), But the vocal and lyrical type is what helps to define it as the subgenre it is, and Power Metal is No Different.


I'm saying to shut up, because you don't understand a simple thing:

lyrics do NOT define a genre
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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02.09.2006 - 19:29
Markku
Account deleted
Written by Damnated on 02.09.2006 at 19:23

Written by Guest on 02.09.2006 at 18:57

Lyrics, no. But vocal is just another instrument and saying it doesn't matter how you use it is same as saying it doesn't matter how you play the guitar.


Ehh, then what do you say about black metal with clean vocals?


I'd say it's black metal, clean vocals or not.

Edit: Wrathchild will mutilate us soon for getting offtopic
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02.09.2006 - 19:33
-tom-
Mr FancyPants
Written by Damnated on 02.09.2006 at 19:23

Ehh, then what do you say about black metal with clean vocals?


circle of ouroborous have clean vocals. no one argues with the black metal label.
----
"This rudderless world is not shaped my metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us"

Read Watchmen.
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02.09.2006 - 19:38
Damnated
Churchburner
Yes, this is what I'm saying clean vocals -> still black metal -> vocal style doesn't define a genre.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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02.09.2006 - 19:47
Draklar
Account deleted
Apparently you two don't understand the irony of what you're saying.
If vocals didn't matter for the genres, you wouldn't be even making such examples.

But fine, I'll bite. What I think about black metal bands with clean vocals? Probably same thing as about bands like Iced Earth, which although having slight Thrash elements, isn't considered a Thrash Metal band.
Dude, metal scene is filled with bands which borrow musical elements from genres that they aren't part of. What the hell are you trying to prove with an example like that?
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02.09.2006 - 19:54
Damnated
Churchburner
Black metal bands wich use clean vocals are still black metal bands. The vocal style doesn't matter, as long as the music is black metal. The same thing is true in the case of other genres aswell. So Children Of Bodom, although uses harsh vocals, is still power metal, because the instrumentation is power metal.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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02.09.2006 - 20:09
wrathchild
Staff
Written by Guest on 02.09.2006 at 19:29

Edit: Wrathchild will mutilate us soon for getting offtopic


No, I'm not that "extreme" But if people could cool down a bit, that would sure be better.

Actually, "Extreme power metal" does really make sense when speaking of a band like Children Of Bodom: they're power metal, with extreme metal elements.
Some have gone as far as calling them a black metal band, or death metal, melodeath, etc. That's the proof they play something "extreme", I think.
Then why power metal? Because it simply is. Basically, COB = Sonata Arctica + extreme elements.

Keep in mind that power metal, like any other metal genre, is broadening, stretching to new standards. There was a time when Helloween was a reference, now we could refer to Sonata Arctica, and so on.

Now, there's another kind of "extreme power metal", represented by Dragonforce. They claim to be playing extreme power metal - power metal at an extreme level; not with extreme elements.
Now, I think that it is more misleading to call Dragonforce an extreme power metal band. They play something like speed power metal. IMO, and in my opinion only, Dragonforce are extremely stupid to base their music more on the speed factor than on the melody aspect, but this doesn't reflect on the name of the genre they play.
----
La belleza no reside en lo que puedas crear, sino en lo que eres capaz de transmitir
Beauty resides not in what you're able to create, but in what you're able to communicate

Txus, Mägo De Oz
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02.09.2006 - 20:09
dark awakening
For me it's correct. We can't define bands as Children of Bodom (4 ex.) only Death or Power Metal
----
Baptized in a lake of acid tears...
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02.09.2006 - 20:12
Draklar
Account deleted
@Damnated:
Gods, I start to question whether you actually think about what I write. For crying out loud, I said same thing as about bands like Iced Earth, which although having slight Thrash elements, isn't considered a Thrash Metal band. If you'll use logical reasoning, that means I think black metal band that uses clean vocals is still black metal band.
Now, before I'll lose the rest of my patience, let's make it as simple as possible:

Let's say we have guitars, vocal, drums and additional instruments, speciffic for genre.
Now let's say guitars, drums and additionals are black metal, but vocals are clean. Yes, this is your damn black metal.
Now let's say guitars, vocal and additionals are typical for black metal, but drums are ehhh, let's say slower. The difference isn't large, it's still black metal.
And now let's say guitars and additionals are typical for black metal, but drums and vocals for another genre. Now it's about time to think this band is a cross-over, since it's not exactly a typical black metal band.

Now I repeat, the sole case of you considering clean vocals unnatural for black metal, proves vocals are important for defining a genre
Genre definitions are supposed to explain how typical band should sound like. Anything that is typical for a band, counts as one of the definition's elements. That's logics in practice.

And yes, I know CoB are power metal. Actually power/speed cross-over. Pure power metal's structure isn't exactly going along with growls.
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02.09.2006 - 20:12
-tom-
Mr FancyPants
Written by Guest on 02.09.2006 at 19:47

If vocals didn't matter for the genres, you wouldn't be even making such examples.


yes, vocals are somewhat important for determining what genre a band are. my point was that if all other characteristics of the music put it in one genre, having different vocals doesn't change anything.

this is relevent because many people believe that children of bodom are death metal because they have semi-growled vocals.
----
"This rudderless world is not shaped my metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us"

Read Watchmen.
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02.09.2006 - 20:15
Draklar
Account deleted
Written by -tom- on 02.09.2006 at 20:12

yes, vocals are somewhat important for determining what genre a band are. my point was that if all other characteristics of the music put it in one genre, having different vocals doesn't change anything.
Yes, that's exactly my point also
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02.09.2006 - 20:19
Damnated
Churchburner
@Draklar I'm starting to get out of the forest. I'll sum it up for you, again: vocals, and vocals alone, are not enough for defining a genre. This is what I was trying to say. Hope we're done.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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02.09.2006 - 20:24
Draklar
Account deleted
That I completely agree with (that more than different vocals is required for a genre change). Just not with your previous statement that genres aren't defined by ways of singing.
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02.09.2006 - 20:30
Damnated
Churchburner
I ment the same thing, only I sometimes fight with English
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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02.09.2006 - 20:32
Bitch Boy
I voted that it's correct. Actually the label doesn't really matter, but there are some people that say that, for example, COB or ETOS are melo-death metal (once I read someone that said that COB was melodic black metal).
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02.09.2006 - 20:38
danzig111
Account deleted
Written by wrathchild on 02.09.2006 at 20:09

Written by Guest on 02.09.2006 at 19:29

Edit: Wrathchild will mutilate us soon for getting offtopic



Actually, "Extreme power metal" does really make sense when speaking of a band like Children Of Bodom: they're power metal, with extreme metal elements.
Some have gone as far as calling them a black metal band, or death metal, melodeath, etc. That's the proof they play something "extreme", I think.
Then why power metal? Because it simply is. Basically, COB = Sonata Arctica + extreme elements.



THANK YOU!!!!! I'm glad that SOMEONE on this site agrees with me! I mean really, COB can't be Melodic-Death metal because the guitars sound far too Neo-Classical Inspired!
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02.09.2006 - 20:45
wrathchild
Staff
Written by Guest on 02.09.2006 at 20:38

THANK YOU!!!!! I'm glad that SOMEONE on this site agrees with me! I mean really, COB can't be Melodic-Death metal because the guitars sound far too Neo-Classical Inspired!


Errr.... actually, not at all, or Necrophagist would be a power metal band as well, which they aren't.... Power metal has nothing to do with classical music. Does Helloween sound neo-classical? I don't htink so.

I also forgot to say one thing: Manowar aren't power metal as suggested in the first post (and actually, we gotta do something in the featured band page...)
----
La belleza no reside en lo que puedas crear, sino en lo que eres capaz de transmitir
Beauty resides not in what you're able to create, but in what you're able to communicate

Txus, Mägo De Oz
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02.09.2006 - 20:53
danzig111
Account deleted
@Wrathchild: I've never heard Necrophagist........But Helloween are more Speed/Thrash (which is PRE-Power Metal) so they hardly count.....And i know Manowar aren't really PM.
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02.09.2006 - 23:15
VenoM_BM
Account deleted
Nice Bodom thread, name other "extreme power metal" bands when you talk about this "subgenre". Now regarding CoB I remember that back in '98-'99 they were refered as a melo-death band (it was a time when I used to buy metal magazines and all of them said melo-death...).
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03.09.2006 - 02:46
Daru Jericho
Written by Guest on 02.09.2006 at 23:15

Nice Bodom thread, name other "extreme power metal" bands when you talk about this "subgenre". Now regarding CoB I remember that back in '98-'99 they were refered as a melo-death band (it was a time when I used to buy metal magazines and all of them said melo-death...).

Other extreme power metal bands = Wintersun, Kalmah and Norther. But I do agree with COB being extreme power metal although sometimes I wish they were just called power metal and the 'extreme' prefix was dropped. Now I hear people calling bands like Opeth 'extreme prog metal' when they clearly have death metal elements infused in their compositions. Also, DragonForce claimed to be 'extreme power metal' before I heard the label being used (back when people listed COB as melo death).

Seeing as all these other extreme power bands seem to be Finnish (and those are the only other bands that I have heard being labelled so) and COB is generally excepted to have started the genre, then maybe they should describe it as Finnish power metal? Actually, maybe not becase a lot of people associate the Finnish power metal sound to be that of Sonata Arctica, Nightwish etc. I don't know, I've kind made a useless point here. Whatever. I stil like the music.
----
Aborted Misanthropic Smurf Puppy On Acid.

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03.09.2006 - 04:40
Arian Totalis
The Philosopher
Written by Damnated on 02.09.2006 at 19:25

Written by Arian Totalis on 02.09.2006 at 18:06


tsk tsk....was I so rude as to blatently tell you to shut up? no. If we're going to disscuss this, then let's actually disscuss it. Not get angry and tell each other to shut up, if you don't want to talk about it, just tell me
and I'll respectfully back off.

But back to the subject of power metal, Just look at bands Like Iced Earth, Iron Maiden, Blind Guardian, Dragonforce, 3 inches of blood, etc, the list goes on and on, they all have similar vocal styles and lyrics, and it's not true that a genre isn't defined by lyrics or vocal quality, I mean, it's not ALWAYS about the vocals or lyrics, but sometimes it does truly help to define a genre. Look at Death Metal, Part of what makes Death Metal what it is is the characteristic death screach, with dark disruptive lyrics. Now Death metal has other things which make it Death(Like Blastbeats), But the vocal and lyrical type is what helps to define it as the subgenre it is, and Power Metal is No Different.


I'm saying to shut up, because you don't understand a simple thing:

lyrics do NOT define a genre

Lyrics and vocal type do help to define a genre though,
please read my entire post.

And do you have to use such ridiculously large Print? I mean, that just
makes the screen look bulky and unpleasent for evrybody.
----
"For the Coward there is no Life
For the hero there is No Death"
-Kakita Toshimoko

"The Philosopher, you know so much about nothing at all." _Chuck Schuldiner.
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03.09.2006 - 12:28
Damnated
Churchburner
Lyrics don't help with anything. There is balck metal with fantasy lyrics. What do you call that.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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03.09.2006 - 15:11
Raiden
Down Under Staff
Elite
I think you both make good arguments. Lyrics don't make a style at all, but like Draklar said, they are like an instrument that can make up a style. On the other hand though, lyrics can change much more dramatically than actual instruments can. Hmmm...
----
"Scream for me Melbourne!!!!"
- Bruce Dickinson

"I don't see any god up here"
- Yuri Gagarin (while in orbit, 1961)
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03.09.2006 - 15:42
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by Raiden on 03.09.2006 at 15:11

like Draklar said, they are like an instrument that can make up a style.


Draklar was talking about the vocals
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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03.09.2006 - 15:47
Raiden
Down Under Staff
Elite
Written by Damnated on 03.09.2006 at 15:42

Written by Raiden on 03.09.2006 at 15:11

like Draklar said, they are like an instrument that can make up a style.


Draklar was talking about the vocals


Yeah, lol, that's what I meant. The vocals being like an instrument
----
"Scream for me Melbourne!!!!"
- Bruce Dickinson

"I don't see any god up here"
- Yuri Gagarin (while in orbit, 1961)
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07.09.2006 - 10:55
?Bodomchild?
Yeah ! exist cuz bands like DragonForce are Extreme Power Metal....also the Sonic Firestone have a sticker ho says EXTREME POWER METAL breaking the booundaries of melodic/speed/powe/ metal....so it's power metal with Extreme solos....extreme speed ho makes that sense of extreme.....so COB,Norther have it too....not the same vocal but have the same extreme solos and speed....CoB do it with Something Wild or Hatebreeder...DragonForce its doing it with all albums and Norther IMO do it with Dreams of Endless War....so its a genre ho dont need specific lyrics and vocals to carry on
----
asd
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