Written by Daniell on 12.11.2013 at 10:36

But why they make negative lists beats me even more.

Likely to connect with users on this website; people take price in being appreciated. If not then perhaps a form of venting

Written by Nemo Atkins on 12.11.2013 at 18:54


This is probably me being odd, but I find that any idea, no matter how bad it looks on paper, can be made into a good one, if the skills of the people putting it together are up to the task and they handle it well. Similarly, a good idea can be done poorly if the people putting it together aren't up to the task or handle it poorly. If you had to press me for an example, I'd probably say most prog bands tend to do the latter when they try to write a rock opera, as they usually come up with an amazing idea for a storyline (for the sake of providing an example, I'll use Dream Theater's "Scenes From A Memory"), but something about the execution lets it down (in this case, I find they write prog material on that album for the sake of being prog, rather than because the songs need to be that way).

I strongly agree with all you said above maybe I should have put into practice the idea of my list with more quality,
and your example is the best one, yes they write their prog songs for the sake of being prog..

Written by Nemo Atkins on 12.11.2013 at 18:54

And I'm pretty much on MS for the same reason as you are, as it's nice to chat with people about the same thing without necessarily having to go through a long and potentially awkward conversation, hoping to get to a common topic of conversation that might not even be there. I've had that experience a few times in face to face conversations (although, granted, I'm not the best speaker offline anyway)...

same here I'm not a good speaker offline, so it's great to talk on MS forums about my fav music and such.

HEARTS ON FIRE, HEARTS ON FIRE
BURNING, BURNING WITH DESIRE!

sorry couldn't help myself there
A few songs I agree with but not all, though Wish I had an angel is one of the weakest and probably most annoying of NW's songs.

Written by CyberSymphony on 12.11.2013 at 19:33

HEARTS ON FIRE, HEARTS ON FIRE
BURNING, BURNING WITH DESIRE!

sorry couldn't help myself there
A few songs I agree with but not all, though Wish I had an angel is one of the weakest and probably most annoying of NW's songs.

everyone is tending to repeat that... chorus, what are the ones you agree with ? :/

Written by LeKiwi on 12.11.2013 at 19:00

Likely to connect with users on this website; people take price in being appreciated. If not then perhaps a form of venting

My first reason for being on a metal music forum is to discuss my fav music with other people from all around the world, is it then irrational to make lists for discussing music ?! and or as you said connecting with users !

I don't ! I don't in anything I do, I never ever do anything for no one's attention and appreciation, this is the very last thing on my mind for anything I do, as I have always said before for my first list and also for this one, I'm not looking forward to thumbs up and or any applaud, I am not seeking any of them, because my basic intentions are just talking about music as I am deprived of this chance in real life for just because of living in damned place which has no drop of appreciation for my fav music.

Venting ?! do I vent ? huh I have no clue why you could use this word for my list and posts on MS.

Written by angel. on 12.11.2013 at 21:02

My first reason for being on a metal music forum is to discuss my fav music with other people from all around the world, is it then irrational to make lists for discussing music ?! and or as you said connecting with users !

I don't ! I don't in anything I do, I never ever do anything for no one's attention and appreciation, this is the very last thing on my mind for anything I do, as I have always said before for my first list and also for this one, I'm not looking forward to thumbs up and or any applaud, I am not seeking any of them, because my basic intentions are just talking about music as I am deprived of this chance in real life for just because of living in damned place which has no drop of appreciation for my fav music.

Venting ?! do I vent ? huh I have no clue why you could use this word for my list and posts on MS.

But this isn't your favourite music, is it

Also, I never accused you of venting; in fact my post wasn't even directed at you and was simply a reply to Daniell's post which you can read above.

Written by LeKiwi on 12.11.2013 at 21:07


But this isn't your favourite music, is it

Also, I never accused you of venting; in fact my post wasn't even directed at you and was simply a reply to Daniell's post which you can read above.

metal is my fav music although I don't like these songs in my fav genre

But Daniell's post was directed at me which can somewhat make your reply directing at me too.

Written by angel. on 12.11.2013 at 21:35

metal is my fav music although I don't like these songs in my fav genre

But Daniell's post was directed at me which can somewhat make your reply directing at me too.

Fair enough. While my reply may have been indirectly directed at you, I was merely trying to enlighten Daniell about the rationale behind creating such a list. Having used words like "perhaps" and "likely", I was trying to imply that I don't know all said reasons. Thus, your aim of creating a list to incite discussion is perfectly valid.

Written by angel. on 12.11.2013 at 20:31

Written by CyberSymphony on 12.11.2013 at 19:33

HEARTS ON FIRE, HEARTS ON FIRE
BURNING, BURNING WITH DESIRE!

sorry couldn't help myself there
A few songs I agree with but not all, though Wish I had an angel is one of the weakest and probably most annoying of NW's songs.

everyone is tending to repeat that... chorus, what are the ones you agree with ? :/

The demon's and wizards, kamelot, system, bullet, stratovarius, metallica songs I agree with, though I want to say Within Temptation too but I like more of their songs.
Have to look at Cradle of filth, most of their (later) songs annoy me sometimes.

I WISH I HAD AN ANGEL FOR ONE MOMENT OF LOVE!

What an awful song.

"Heaven and Hell" is great though. As is "Another Day".

Written by Azarath on 12.11.2013 at 22:12

I WISH I HAD AN ANGEL FOR ONE MOMENT OF LOVE!

What an awful song.

"Heaven and Hell" is great though. As is "Another Day".

silence !

But listen to both of them several times with more care

Written by CyberSymphony on 12.11.2013 at 21:58


The demon's and wizards, kamelot, system, bullet, stratovarius, metallica songs I agree with, though I want to say Within Temptation too but I like more of their songs.
Have to look at Cradle of filth, most of their (later) songs annoy me sometimes.

But it's just one song by Within Temptation as for other bands. " Stand for My Ground" which is an annoying one.
CoF, hmm I never went over their songs closely. Give me a suggestion by them

Keep away from these songs and don't ever remind yourself of their existence, I say.

Written by 3rdWorld on 13.11.2013 at 20:11

Keep away from these songs and don't ever remind yourself of their existence, I say.

I approve

Written by angel. on 11.11.2013 at 21:15

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.11.2013 at 21:13


So, you're implying something's wrong with my nerves?

haha YES ! If "Gaia" doesn't get on your nerves, visit a neurologist ASAP.

Listening to it now and while it's not nearly the best song on Wildhoney, it surely is still a great song. The Ar is easily the best song on the album for me though. But seriously, I can't think of one bad thing of that song. Totally not annoying at all (in fact, I love the intro, yet you think it's terrible... the vocals are also good, no problems at all with them). I'd expect if that song is annoying, the whole album would be annoying to you.

Written by angel. on 12.11.2013 at 17:23

I don't know really why I made this bullshit list and I feel ashamed.

Not really a bullshit list. It's less cliché than most lists, so that's a good thing.

Written by Erik M. on 15.11.2013 at 23:30


Listening to it now and while it's not nearly the best song on Wildhoney, it surely is still a great song. The Ar is easily the best song on the album for me though. But seriously, I can't think of one bad thing of that song. Totally not annoying at all (in fact, I love the intro, yet you think it's terrible... the vocals are also good, no problems at all with them). I'd expect if that song is annoying, the whole album would be annoying to you.

I guess you're right, the whole album sounds annoying to me, and this one song sound more annoying.

Written by Erik M. on 15.11.2013 at 23:39


Not really a bullshit list. It's less cliché than most lists, so that's a good thing.

ah thanks, you're kind though I feel this one is a less serious list, still it's good to discuss over it I suppose.

Written by LeKiwi on 12.11.2013 at 21:07

But this isn't your favourite music, is it

Haha, I was thinking the same thing.

Quote:

Also, I never accused you of venting; in fact my post wasn't even directed at you and was simply a reply to Daniell's post which you can read above.

Be careful now... you're dealing with an Elite (Daniell) and you know what happens when you defy them. Yes, I'm referring to the discussion you and BitterCOld had which resulted in having your votes nuked as well as banned from voting on MS.

Written by angel. on 15.11.2013 at 23:44

I guess you're right, the whole album sounds annoying to me, and this one song sound more annoying.

Good to know. Then I finally understand why you don't like it (kind of).

Quote:

ah thanks, you're kind though I feel this one is a less serious list, still it's good to discuss over it I suppose.

Hey now, I of course like this list. Why? Because it indirectly bashes a lot of bands/songs that I truly hate as well. Which bands/songs you ask? Well, let's just say the vast majority on this list.

Written by Erik M. on 15.11.2013 at 23:54

Be careful now... you're dealing with an Elite (Daniell) and you know what happens when you defy them. Yes, I'm referring to the discussion you and BitterCOld had which resulted in having your votes nuked as well as banned from voting on MS.

I'm well aware of that, and I've yet to say anything untoward to him; it was unnecessary to bring that up....

Written by LeKiwi on 16.11.2013 at 03:21

I'm well aware of that, and I've yet to say anything untoward to him; it was unnecessary to bring that up....

Not unnecessary, as I was just warning you in advance. Also, will you vote for albums again on MS? It seems your ban is no longer active.

Written by Erik M. on 16.11.2013 at 18:07

Not unnecessary, as I was just warning you in advance. Also, will you vote for albums again on MS? It seems your ban is no longer active.

I meant unnecessary in that you brought up a resolved issue. I want to vote, but the tags frustrate me. Both "perfect" and "average" are rather ambiguous terms. I could explain in detail, but it would it would be OT.

Written by LeKiwi on 16.11.2013 at 18:21

I meant unnecessary in that you brought up a resolved issue. I want to vote, but the tags frustrate me. Both "perfect" and "average" are rather ambiguous terms.

I mostly agree with the rating descriptions on MS. The only one I 100% disagree with is the "perfect" tag for a 10 because of course not a single album ever is perfect. A 10 for me translates to "masterpiece" and an album doesn't have to be perfect to be called a masterpiece. Oh, and I somewhat agree about "average" as well. A 6 is better called "mediocre" or something.

Quote:
I could explain in detail, but it would it would be OT.

It would be Officium Triste? Just kidding, I know it means off-topic, haha.

Written by Erik M. on 16.11.2013 at 18:34

Written by LeKiwi on 16.11.2013 at 18:21

I meant unnecessary in that you brought up a resolved issue. I want to vote, but the tags frustrate me. Both "perfect" and "average" are rather ambiguous terms.

I mostly agree with the rating descriptions on MS. The only one I 100% disagree with is the "perfect" tag for a 10 because of course not a single album ever is perfect. A 10 for me translates to "masterpiece" and an album doesn't have to be perfect to be called a masterpiece. Oh, and I somewhat agree about "average" as well. A 6 is better called "mediocre" or something.

I don't like 6 tbh.

5 should be average, meaning the positives and the negatives are about equal or the album does really absolutely nothing for a person.

6 should still be "good" just the lowest level in the "good" area. But right now the way ratings are on MS and also the way people on MS rate albums (which frankly sucks but that's a different issue) 6 is pretty much a negative rating right now.

Written by Uldreth on 16.11.2013 at 18:52

I don't like 6 tbh.

5 should be average, meaning the positives and the negatives are about equal or the album does really absolutely nothing for a person.

6 should still be "good" just the lowest level in the "good" area. But right now the way ratings are on MS and also the way people on MS rate albums (which frankly sucks but that's a different issue) 6 is pretty much a negative rating right now.

Nope, 5 should not be average. Only 4 ratings (1-4) below a 5 while there are 5 ratings (6-10) above a 5, since you can't rate something a 0. Although "not good" isn't that accurate either for a 5-rating.

I somewhat agree with you about the 6-rating though, because it's still above a 5,5 yet it's seen as a negative rating, like you said. However, a 5 should definitely be a negative rating.

I'd personally use these ratings descriptions:
10. Masterpiece
9. Excellent
8. Great
7. Good
6. Mediocre/decent
5. Below average
4. Bad
3. Terrible
2. Pure crap
1. Worst ever

Written by Erik M. on 16.11.2013 at 19:10



Nope, 5 should not be average. Only 4 ratings (1-4) below a 5 while there are 5 ratings (6-10) above a 5, since you can't rate something a 0. Although "not good" isn't that accurate either for a 5-rating.

I somewhat agree with you about the 6-rating though, because it's still above a 5,5 yet it's seen as a negative rating, like you said. However, a 5 should definitely be a negative rating.
...

Let's just say we really need half ratings

The problem with your rating scheme though is that it lacks an average rating. Like I said and you agreed, 6 should not be a negative rating. Now if I want to rate something 5.5 outside a review, I can rate it an 5 which would be a negative rating and does not reflect just "'average". Or can say 5.5 is rounded upwards, in which case 6 is pretty much equal to average and we are back where we were .

Written by Erik M. on 16.11.2013 at 18:34

The only one I 100% disagree with is the "perfect" tag for a 10 because of course not a single album ever is perfect.

There's lots of perfect albums IMO. I think that is a very appropriate tag for the 10's.

Words are arbitrary, ladies and gents. Perfection in regards to music is completely subjective. There is no such thing as a universally perfect album, so if you want to rate an album a 10, do so on the basis that said album is perfect to you.

Personally I've never come across a perfect album because every album I've ever listened to has at least some flaw. I just hand out 10s to albums whose flaws are the least prominent compared to other albums I've heard.

Came here for Hearts on Fire, I was not disappointed.

Written by 4look4rd on 16.11.2013 at 20:43

Came here for Hearts on Fire, I was not disappointed.

I'm flattered

Written by Troy Killjoy on 16.11.2013 at 20:13

Words are arbitrary, ladies and gents. Perfection in regards to music is completely subjective. There is no such thing as a universally perfect album, so if you want to rate an album a 10, do so on the basis that said album is perfect to you.

Personally I've never come across a perfect album because every album I've ever listened to has at least some flaw. I just hand out 10s to albums whose flaws are the least prominent compared to other albums I've heard.

Not entirely, otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place

Perfection is subjective, however, the way I perceive it there are two varieties of "perfection" with regard to music. There is that which is perfect in that the gap between the intention and expectation and perception is non-existant; in this respect there can exist a perfect, mediocre album. The other is a more comprehensive and subjective: does the listener perceive it as an epitome of top-grade material - is it subjectively a masterpiece?

This is why I believe that a rating of 10 does not correlate with "perfect". A gripe, but I can't help it