Is there any formal way to dispute blacklisted bands? In the very least, how do people comment on the suggestions? Is it mods only?

On a side note, if a band was definitely metal for a single album, but only that album, ambiguously metal for several other albums, and clearly non-metal for several other albums, where would they fall? The specific band I'm thinking about is Staind, while they are best known for their post-grunge work, their first album was for the most part heavy metal/alternative metal, and they have a few nu/alternative metal albums.

Some formerly blacklisted bands have been added, so there's obviously an occasional review of the list, but I think its staff only.

Here is list whit all blacklistd bands

http://www.metalstorm.net/bands/band_suggestions.php?blacklisted=1
as far as I know hard rock and more less popsy rock bands can be add as review album bad, or lable asks , but NSBM bands stays forever

Written by Ganondox on 19.09.2014 at 08:21
Is there any formal way to dispute blacklisted bands?

There is now thanks to this thread.

I'll do my best to explain the reason behind why band x is blacklisted, and I will also be open to removing bands from the blacklist if an argument is well-presented. But that doesn't mean that band will be automatically added to the site - there's a bit of procedure involved and decision-making as a group.

Anyone who visits this thread should be forewarned that NSBM bands will not be removed from the blacklist. That's a hard stance that likely won't ever change.

Free Babymetal!

Kawaii for lyfe!

Yeah now that you mention it I wanna hear why is it that Babymetal is blacklisted

I dn't care much if a band is added or not, but there are some cases that makes me wonder why are they blacklisted when similar bands are accepted. Like Alien Vampire, it's aggrotech yet there is stuff like Hocico accepted. Or Graveland, which is like Burzum or Drudkh (non political band with the dude dehind it being NS or similar). It's just a comment regarding consistency, not too important.

Written by Guest on 19.09.2014 at 19:10
Free Babymetal!

Deleted from the blacklist, but not added to the site - yet.

Written by Vombatus on 19.09.2014 at 20:35
consistency

This is the most challenging aspect of maintaining the blacklist. Metal Storm has (invisible) profiles for many non-metal bands and yet some bands with closer ties to metal are on the blacklist. Ultimately it's a subjective group-led aspect of the site that we do our best to manage. It won't ever be perfect and inconsistencies will always exist but now this thread will help shed light on why certain bands are there, and to serve as a forum for users to argue against a band being blacklisted.

Written by Karlabos on 19.09.2014 at 19:55
Yeah now that you mention it I wanna hear why is it that Babymetal is blacklisted

Essentially it came down to "is this metal" vs "is this a dance group/marketing gimmick".

Does this mean I can petition for Limp Bizkit here?

Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.09.2014 at 01:31

Written by Karlabos on 19.09.2014 at 19:55
Yeah now that you mention it I wanna hear why is it that Babymetal is blacklisted

Essentially it came down to "is this metal" vs "is this a dance group/marketing gimmick".

Bit of both, I think.

Written by M C Vice on 20.09.2014 at 03:37
Does this mean I can petition for Limp Bizkit here?

You can, but I'm not sure how far it will get you. Same goes for the likes of Seether, Linkin Park, Evanescence, etc.

I don't think the general consensus regarding those bands will change, although the list isn't set in stone.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.09.2014 at 03:47

Written by M C Vice on 20.09.2014 at 03:37
Does this mean I can petition for Limp Bizkit here?

You can, but I'm not sure how far it will get you. Same goes for the likes of Seether, Linkin Park, Evanescence, etc.
I don't think the general consensus regarding those bands will change, although the list isn't set in stone.

Dethklok got un-blacklisted and featured, so there's hope yet.
If you strip away the lyrics, Limp Bizkit are pretty similar to Rage Against The Machine. I've also often found Evanescence reminds me of Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation. The 1st 2 Linkin Park albums are definatly Nu Metal, the others are more alt rock than anything else.

Written by M C Vice on 20.09.2014 at 03:52
If you strip away the lyrics, Limp Bizkit are pretty similar to Rage Against The Machine. I've also often found Evanescence reminds me of Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation. The 1st 2 Linkin Park albums are definatly Nu Metal, the others are more alt rock than anything else.

The problem with a thread like this is that it isn't one person's opinion deciding the fate of these bands, but it's also not the place for someone like me to be saying who thinks what about which bands make the cut. I can only refer to the general consensus point I brought up before. If the majority of us agreed with the points you made then those bands would be added to the site, or at the very least removed from the blacklist. Until that consensus is reached, they'll remain blacklisted.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.09.2014 at 04:56

Written by M C Vice on 20.09.2014 at 03:52
If you strip away the lyrics, Limp Bizkit are pretty similar to Rage Against The Machine. I've also often found Evanescence reminds me of Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation. The 1st 2 Linkin Park albums are definatly Nu Metal, the others are more alt rock than anything else.

The problem with a thread like this is that it isn't one person's opinion deciding the fate of these bands, but it's also not the place for someone like me to be saying who thinks what about which bands make the cut. I can only refer to the general consensus point I brought up before. If the majority of us agreed with the points you made then those bands would be added to the site, or at the very least removed from the blacklist. Until that consensus is reached, they'll remain blacklisted.

I know, I was just putting the case for them forward. I wasn't expecting anything to happen with them.

Aside from the aforementioned Staind for their early material and new album, the only bands I feel like contesting are Chevelle and Evanescence. While I can see while alternative-metal/post-grunge acts like Three Days Grace or even Breaking Benjamin wouldn't be considered metal, Chevelle seems to be pretty solidly alternative metal with only minimal grunge elements. IMO they are as metal as Tool, just with more pop and less prog (though these is a bit of attitude in the metal community to see metal as being more like prog than pop). For Evanescence, well, it's more I think the classification "alternative gothic rock" is absurd as 1. gothic rock is one of the oldest forms of alternative rock, so alternative gothic rock is redundant. If Evanescence were gothic rock, they would be mainstream pop gothic rock. 2. They aren't gothic rock, at least in the traditional sense of the term. I could see them as being classified as alternative gothic METAL, which I guess would make them metal by default, but not alternative gothic ROCK.

I agree with Staind and Evanescence.
Any chance of accepting more post-rock and hardcore punk? Or Steppenwolf? Or Poison? These are quite the bands that I feel are missing on this website.

Written by Ganondox on 20.09.2014 at 07:07
Aside from the aforementioned Staind for their early material and new album, the only bands I feel like contesting are Chevelle and Evanescence. While I can see while alternative-metal/post-grunge acts like Three Days Grace or even Breaking Benjamin wouldn't be considered metal, Chevelle seems to be pretty solidly alternative metal with only minimal grunge elements. IMO they are as metal as Tool, just with more pop and less prog (though these is a bit of attitude in the metal community to see metal as being more like prog than pop). For Evanescence, well, it's more I think the classification "alternative gothic rock" is absurd as 1. gothic rock is one of the oldest forms of alternative rock, so alternative gothic rock is redundant. If Evanescence were gothic rock, they would be mainstream pop gothic rock. 2. They aren't gothic rock, at least in the traditional sense of the term. I could see them as being classified as alternative gothic METAL, which I guess would make them metal by default, but not alternative gothic ROCK.

Staind is probably never going to be added to the site, for the same consensus reason I gave before. I don't think (m)any of us think of them as a band that fits within our current structure.

Chevelle I could honestly see added at some point. They're kind of a hard rock/alt rock band and they've toured with established metal acts in the past, so at the very least I'll remove them from the blacklist. Adding them to the site is a different matter, however, although I will bring it up in our next Staff meeting at the old MS Towers.

You can write a dissertation on genres but I doubt Evanescence will ever be added to the site. I'd also recommend not getting too hung up on little blurbs we write in those comment sections since it has more to do with future reference and not really intended to ignite a genre war.

Written by RaduP on 20.09.2014 at 09:43
Any chance of accepting more post-rock and hardcore punk? Or Steppenwolf? Or Poison? These are quite the bands that I feel are missing on this website.

We have been more accepting of post-rock since the post-metal boom took place and those genres often intersect, much like prog rock and prog metal. Hardcore punk on its own isn't something we've gone out of our way to add and that stance isn't likely to change since it would open up a really big door that would ultimately reshape the entire database.

I don't think Steppenwolf will ever be added to the site and I'm personally not inclined to remove them from the blacklist. Poison will be another band addressed in that Staff meeting.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 19.09.2014 at 17:06
Anyone who visits this thread should be forewarned that NSBM bands will not be removed from the blacklist. That's a hard stance that likely won't ever change.

I'm interested in this topic as a whole, but what does NSBM mean? Don't recall seeing that term mentioned anywhere here previous to this thread.

Written by Druss on 20.09.2014 at 17:13
I'm interested in this topic as a whole, but what does NSBM mean? Don't recall seeing that term mentioned anywhere here previous to this thread.

NS = National Socialism. BM = black metal.

Basically NS anything is blacklisted, as well as bands like Arghoslent that glorify racist ideologies.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.09.2014 at 17:21
NS = National Socialism. BM = black metal.

Basically NS anything is blacklisted, as well as bands like Arghoslent that glorify racist ideologies.

Fair enough, thanks for the quick reply. Bit interesting to see that a political stance could be used as a generally known abbreviation in conjunction with a specific genre of metal, but even I'm aware of some examples of that within black metal so I'm sure its warranted, sadly.

I don't understand why Pazuzu and Wongraven are blacklisted. While not essentially metal, they surely do target the black metal audience.

Written by M C Vice on 20.09.2014 at 03:52

If you strip away the lyrics, Limp Bizkit are pretty similar to Rage Against The Machine. I've also often found Evanescence reminds me of Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation. The 1st 2 Linkin Park albums are definatly Nu Metal, the others are more alt rock than anything else.

Written by Curumir on 20.09.2014 at 17:42

I don't understand why Pazuzu and Wongraven are blacklisted. While not essentially metal, they surely do target the black metal audience.

There seem to be lots of cases like these where the band is blacklisted even though it sounds similar to other one which is already featured.
To state my opinion I think bands like those should be removed from the black list. Not mean they should be added, if you don't want to add them because they're irrelevant or not metal enough even though there are already non metal bands on the database, it's perfectly fine. But not adding a band and blacklisting are two different things. The latter one is saying like "this is completely out of the scope of this site and doesn't deserve even to be mentioned on the suggestion page" which is kinda inconsistent when ou stop to think that there are similar bands already on the database.

Written by Karlabos on 20.09.2014 at 17:51
The latter one is saying like "this is completely out of the scope of this site and doesn't deserve even to be mentioned on the suggestion page" which is kinda inconsistent when ou stop to think that there are similar bands already on the database.

Not all the time. Sometimes it just came down to band x having like +70 and thus appearing at the top of the page, so adding them to the blacklist was basically letting those 70 people know that we didn't want them added to the site. As stated previously, the blacklist isn't set in stone.

Written by Curumir on 20.09.2014 at 17:42
I don't understand why Pazuzu and Wongraven are blacklisted. While not essentially metal, they surely do target the black metal audience.

These will also be brought up. There's a chance both were blacklisted before we made a push to add non-metal side projects.

Why are NSBM bands blacklisted? How are their lyrical themes so much worse than the other thousands of metal bands that talk about killing ... people and hating ... group of people? It just seems like a general theme of a lot of extreme metal has to do with violence against a certain group of people so what makes them so special? Sure it's really offensive since there have been certain atrocities committed in more recent history, but if one chooses to ignore their racist ideologies some of them are actually making decent music. Most of the messages NSBM bands try to convey are just so idiotic that it's hard to take as seriously as say, blacklisting them.
I'm not trying to promote NSBM bands or anything, I just don't see why bands can be blacklisted on their lyrical themes rather than the type of music they play.

Written by MetalDoomMaster on 20.09.2014 at 19:11

Why are NSBM bands blacklisted? How are their lyrical themes so much worse than the other thousands of metal bands that talk about killing ... people and hating ... group of people? It just seems like a general theme of a lot of extreme metal has to do with violence against a certain group of people so what makes them so special? Sure it's really offensive since there have been certain atrocities committed in more recent history, but if one chooses to ignore their racist ideologies some of them are actually making decent music. Most of the messages NSBM bands try to convey are just so idiotic that it's hard to take as seriously as say, blacklisting them.
I'm not trying to promote NSBM bands or anything, I just don't see why bands can be blacklisted on their lyrical themes rather than the type of music they play.

it was discussed in old days , PM staff or admins they can give better explanation but mainly because NS ideology and hate speech into the lyrics ... same time in site Nazi symbols(one lad was total banned for swastika posts), racistic insults are also forbidden (I remember DSM banned one guy what insulted Sepulture singer) same time any other way to insult MS members are forbidden here

Written by Bad English on 20.09.2014 at 19:31

it was discussed in old days , PM staff or admins they can give better explanation but mainly because NS ideology and hate speech into the lyrics ... same time in site Nazi symbols(one lad was total banned for swastika posts), racistic insults are also forbidden (I remember DSM banned one guy what insulted Sepulture singer) same time any other way to insult MS members are forbidden here

Ah, yeah I guess I probably missed a few discussions on the topic. Still, there is a big difference between directly calling someone a "whatever" and having a band listed that doesn't necessarily reflect the opinion of the site or its members.

Written by MetalDoomMaster on 20.09.2014 at 20:09

Written by Bad English on 20.09.2014 at 19:31

it was discussed in old days , PM staff or admins they can give better explanation but mainly because NS ideology and hate speech into the lyrics ... same time in site Nazi symbols(one lad was total banned for swastika posts), racistic insults are also forbidden (I remember DSM banned one guy what insulted Sepulture singer) same time any other way to insult MS members are forbidden here

Ah, yeah I guess I probably missed a few discussions on the topic. Still, there is a big difference between directly calling someone a "whatever" and having a band listed that doesn't necessarily reflect the opinion of the site or its members.

it was like 3-4 years ago when we had Nocturnal Mortum discussion ...