Written by Ganondox on 28.10.2016 at 17:54


Just because it is comedic doesn't mean it isn't sexist. Now, there are a far worse forms of sexism, it's far cry from misogynist gangster rap, but it's still technically very sexist.

Anyway, this song is the best:

Written by Zombie94 on 29.10.2016 at 01:15

Written by Ganondox on 28.10.2016 at 17:54


Just because it is comedic doesn't mean it isn't sexist. Now, there are a far worse forms of sexism, it's far cry from misogynist gangster rap, but it's still technically very sexist.

Anyway, this song is the best:

I'm saying that when that particular Manowar song is sung by a woman and the lyrics are changed to be about men, I don't find it sexist.

Sexism refers to prejudice or discrimination against someone because of their sex. To me, Pleasure Slave comes across as more of a weird BDSM fetish

Written by tominator on 01.11.2016 at 23:40

Saw this video today. Just posting it here for those who are interested. The guy in the video talks about an article that came out earlier this year. It's an article about (mostly) the more extreme subgenres in metal and how they are often sexist according to the writer of the article.



I disagree completely with the article btw but that's just my opinion.

Written by Ganondox on 02.11.2016 at 09:29

If you're not a woman your opinion on the article is garbage. You can have an opinion, but it's an uninformed opinion as it's not about something you have to deal with. Women DO get harassed a lot in extreme metal (though I heard it's still pretty tame compared to even indie rock fans). That being said, the sure absurdity of the misogyny in goregrind makes the fantasy harmless.

Written by tominator on 02.11.2016 at 12:31

What baffles me though is that the person who wrote the article says she likes extreme metal but then makes a huge argument as to why it's sexist. If you think it's sexist then I can't understand why you would like those forms of metal?

Written by Karlabos on 02.11.2016 at 14:43

They could all just hurl random syllabes instead of making any sense...

Written by tominator on 02.11.2016 at 12:31

The lyrics are a huge part of the reason why it's called extreme metal.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 02.11.2016 at 14:58

Written by tominator on 02.11.2016 at 12:31

The lyrics are a huge part of the reason why it's called extreme metal.

Actually, no.
It is called extreme metal due to the music being extreme, not due to lyrics being extreme.

Written by tominator on 02.11.2016 at 15:14

]

I honestly think it is. Because it's the only reason I don't like most of the extreme metal bands. So I would say the lyrics are a part of what makes the extreme metal what it is. And yes of course the music itself is extreme. But the lyrics are usually as well...

Written by Karlabos on 02.11.2016 at 14:43

I guess because she likes the music? =p
There are lots of things I don't agree with in extreme metal lyrics as well. Hell, if you listen to grindcore or death metal because you actually relate to the lyrics you are a goddamn psycho... But will that make me stop listening to it? Nah... I don't even understand what's being said. They could all just hurl random syllabes instead of making any sense and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It suits the music though... So it's ok.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 02.11.2016 at 15:19

Written by tominator on 02.11.2016 at 15:14

]

I honestly think it is. Because it's the only reason I don't like most of the extreme metal bands. So I would say the lyrics are a part of what makes the extreme metal what it is. And yes of course the music itself is extreme. But the lyrics are usually as well...

According to your reasoning instrumental extreme metal bands won't be extreme metal bands. And most of Slowly We Rot won't be extreme metal.

Written by tominator on 02.11.2016 at 15:39

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 02.11.2016 at 15:19

Written by tominator on 02.11.2016 at 15:14

]

I honestly think it is. Because it's the only reason I don't like most of the extreme metal bands. So I would say the lyrics are a part of what makes the extreme metal what it is. And yes of course the music itself is extreme. But the lyrics are usually as well...

According to your reasoning instrumental extreme metal bands won't be extreme metal bands. And most of Slowly We Rot won't be extreme metal.

Okay tell me... where did I say the music that extreme metal bands play isn't extreme? Because I don't remember saying that tbh. Now you are just assuming things... I never said the vocals and lyrics are the only extreme thing about extreme metal. I said "they are a PART of it".

Your analogy with instrumental bands is weird tbh. Instrumental bands are just leaving out one part of the mix out of it and focus more on the other parts. What you are saying is like saying an Iron Maiden song like for instance Losfer Words isn't an Iron Maiden song because it doesn't have the high pitched vocals of Bruce Dickinson on it.

But if you ask someone to describe Maiden there's a 99.99% chance they will at some point say "high soaring vocals". It has become a part of their sound. Just like extreme metal bands that use lyrics in their songs usually have extreme lyrics. And those lyrics have become a part of the genre.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 02.11.2016 at 15:53

Sorry, I misunderstood you in the case of lyrics then.

As for your Iron Maiden to my instrumental extreme music comparison... I was saying that acoording to me insturmental extreme metal bands are still extreme metal bands. Because it is about the music making something extreme and not the lyrics.

Written by Karlabos on 02.11.2016 at 14:43

Written by tominator on 02.11.2016 at 12:31

What baffles me though is that the person who wrote the article says she likes extreme metal but then makes a huge argument as to why it's sexist. If you think it's sexist then I can't understand why you would like those forms of metal?

I guess because she likes the music? =p
There are lots of things I don't agree with in extreme metal lyrics as well. Hell, if you listen to grindcore or death metal because you actually relate to the lyrics you are a goddamn psycho... But will that make me stop listening to it? Nah... I don't even understand what's being said. They could all just hurl random syllabes instead of making any sense and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It suits the music though... So it's ok.

Anyway yeah, Ganondox saying your opinion doesn't count because you are a man is at least... Interesting. I wonder what a man like him is doing commenting on a thread about sexism then? =D

Written by Ganondox on 02.11.2016 at 21:00

Yes, my opinion on most of this means jackcrap. It's not specifically being a man which makes ones opinion garbage, it's discussing an issue that has never been an issue for you personally. It's like if you don't have an allergy, your opinion on the value of allergy warnings is garbage compared to that of those who actually have allergies. So if you have no problem with lyrics, you're in no place to talk about those who DO have a problem with the lyrics, for whatever reason. In this case being a woman matters is because the women experience harassment in a way men typically don't, and that in turn effects their relationship with the genre.

Written by Vombatus on 02.11.2016 at 23:58

Written by Ganondox on 02.11.2016 at 21:00

Yes, my opinion on most of this means jackcrap. It's not specifically being a man which makes ones opinion garbage, it's discussing an issue that has never been an issue for you personally. It's like if you don't have an allergy, your opinion on the value of allergy warnings is garbage compared to that of those who actually have allergies. So if you have no problem with lyrics, you're in no place to talk about those who DO have a problem with the lyrics, for whatever reason. In this case being a woman matters is because the women experience harassment in a way men typically don't, and that in turn effects their relationship with the genre.

So if you are not an immigrant, you're opinion on the subject is useless? Or can't voice against police brutality if you didn't get beaten up by cops? Or about racism if you never got discriminated because of race?

That's a close minded point of view. You can perfectly understand an issue without being affected by it (empathy?) or be knowledgeable through acquaintances. Otherwise you end up with people who build their rhetoric solely on personal experience, appropiating themselves of the issue, which leads to retarded bias and no possible discussion.

Written by Guest on 03.11.2016 at 00:07

Yeah that sounds like "check your privilege" SJW talk to me, Ganandox. Your opinion now means less because you just made a terribly egregious point, not to do with your genitals or what you have and haven't experienced. Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you'll make a valid point on sexism, similarly to how a man can make a well informed and reasoned comment about it too.

Written by Ganondox on 03.11.2016 at 07:14

Again you misunderstood what I said. It's if you opinion is uninformed it's useless, and when you're talking about subjects you have no experience with it's by default uninformed. In this particular context, if you're not a woman in the metal scene, you're opinion is probably uninformed. Regarding immigration and police brutality, if you're an expert on either of those subjects because you're say a researcher, a police chief, or an immigration official, then your opinion is value, but the average joe's opinion is useless (unless they are a potential victim of police brutality). And back to this situation, if you don't care about metal lyrics, your opinion is going to be of no use to those that do. Obviously things are more complicated than the blanket assumptions I made, but the bottom point is that people have opinions about things that really don't concern them at all, and such opinions aren't really valuable at all.

Written by Vombatus on 03.11.2016 at 13:04

I didn't misunderstand, I'm simply pointing out how inconsistent your opinion is. Your theory falls apart from the start, as you pretend that the only way of understanding an issue is suffering from it and thus, anyone who doesn't fall into a certain cathegory can't be informed (---> you're talking about subjects you have no experience with it's by default uninformed. / if you're not a woman in the metal scene, you're opinion is probably uninformed). Which is just dumb.

But then you say that Regarding immigration and police brutality, if you're an expert on either of those subjects because you're say a researcher, a police chief, or an immigration official, then your opinion is value? That's illogical as the same can apply to sexism. A man can perfectly be a gender expert (researcher, psychologist, doctor, etc...), thus knowledgeable on the issue. Hell, even I had gender courses during my studies, and have friends who suffered discrimination. I suppose I know something about it. Or I am still uninformed because I have a no vagina?

Written by IronAngel on 03.11.2016 at 13:05

He is somewhat right, however, that people are wont to dismiss or underestimate issues that don't concern them personally. I hate "check your privilege" ad hominems, but it would be pretty absurd to deny that, on average, women feel issues of sexism and gender inequality more acutely than men.

Quote:
It boils down to two things: one the one hand, "opinions" are more or less worthless anyhow, since it's reasoned arguments and empiricism we should be taking into account. The alleged sexism of metal is not a matter of public vote. On the other hand, it's useful to be self-aware and realize that your evaluation of the matter's significance arises from your life experiences, and be less quick to dismiss everything that might not personally concern you.

I think it is plain as day that the metal scene is quite sexist. Personally, I don't care very much, but at least I acknowledge that I probably should care more, and would care if it concerned me. Nobody is responsible for fixing all the world's problems, but everyone is responsible for the conventions they perpetuate themselves. My own approach is not to deny this bullshit, but I'm not much of a do-goodier/SJW either. It is best to point it out, laugh at it a bit, shrug, and do better myself.

Written by Vombatus on 03.11.2016 at 13:04

Written by Ganondox on 03.11.2016 at 07:14

Again you misunderstood what I said. It's if you opinion is uninformed it's useless, and when you're talking about subjects you have no experience with it's by default uninformed. In this particular context, if you're not a woman in the metal scene, you're opinion is probably uninformed. Regarding immigration and police brutality, if you're an expert on either of those subjects because you're say a researcher, a police chief, or an immigration official, then your opinion is value, but the average joe's opinion is useless (unless they are a potential victim of police brutality). And back to this situation, if you don't care about metal lyrics, your opinion is going to be of no use to those that do. Obviously things are more complicated than the blanket assumptions I made, but the bottom point is that people have opinions about things that really don't concern them at all, and such opinions aren't really valuable at all.

I didn't misunderstand, I'm simply pointing out how inconsistent your opinion is. Your theory falls apart from the start, as you pretend that the only way of understanding an issue is suffering from it and thus, anyone who doesn't fall into a certain cathegory can't be informed (---> you're talking about subjects you have no experience with it's by default uninformed. / if you're not a woman in the metal scene, you're opinion is probably uninformed). Which is just dumb.

But then you say that Regarding immigration and police brutality, if you're an expert on either of those subjects because you're say a researcher, a police chief, or an immigration official, then your opinion is value? That's illogical as the same can apply to sexism. A man can perfectly be a gender expert (researcher, psychologist, doctor, etc...), thus knowledgeable on the issue. Hell, even I had gender courses during my studies, and have friends who suffered discrimination. I suppose I know something about it. Or I am still uninformed because I have a no vagina?