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Written by Alex Lemon on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 09:26
After a little peek at your fave bands and seeing Mastodon among them, you can't be taken srsly. Sorry kid, you need to learn about music.
So you're saying that because I enjoy Mastodon my opinion can't be taken seriously? That's like me telling everyone on this page that since they enjoy Wintersun they can't be taken "srsly". Learn how to spell and learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.
English is NOT my main language (thank God) but your argument is EXACTLY what I mean.
Written by Alex Lemon on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.
You dont like Wintersun? Fine, nobody will get hurt but implying they are an average band just because you dont like them? Are you even a musician? I bet a six pack you arent...
So, practice what you preach kid. You dont like a band, good, but don't go around thinking you are a music know-it-all when your own taste is rather questionable.
Cheers. |
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Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 23:02
Written by Alex Lemon on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.
You dont like Wintersun? Fine, nobody will get hurt but implying they are an average band just because you dont like them? Are you even a musician? I bet a six pack you arent...
So, practice what you preach kid. You dont like a band, good, but don't go around thinking you are a music know-it-all when your own taste is rather questionable.
Cheers.
He's not a musician... so what?
So if you want to...Let's say: Give your thoughts about a movie. You have to be a director, right? Or at least have quite some experience in the whole movie industry, right?
Because that's what you are saying... and It's retarded.  He can say whatever he wants about any band... and so can you!  I alsoI don't remember reading anywhere that he claimed he was a "know-it-all" so the "practice what you preach" argument is not really valid here.
Also... Man, you must have some sad inferiority problems if you dismiss someone's opinion just because of a band they listen to. |
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Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 23:02
English is NOT my main language (thank God) but your argument is EXACTLY what I mean.
Written by Alex Lemon on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.
You dont like Wintersun? Fine, nobody will get hurt but implying they are an average band just because you dont like them? Are you even a musician? I bet a six pack you arent...
So, practice what you preach kid. You dont like a band, good, but don't go around thinking you are a music know-it-all when your own taste is rather questionable.
Cheers.
I am absolutely and utterly confused by your statements. What does me (not) being a musician have to with anything? I don't go around thinking I am a music "know-it-all"... you were the one who stated that my opinion was de-validated by my liking of Mastodon. You don't like Mastodon, I happen to, and that lead you to believe that my opinion couldn't be taken seriously, that's completely unreasonable. Also I didn't realize that English wasn't your primary language, I was being slightly closed minded by assuming so, so sorry for attacking your spelling |
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Written by Alex Lemon on 25.10.2012 at 01:08
Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 23:02
English is NOT my main language (thank God) but your argument is EXACTLY what I mean.
Written by Alex Lemon on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.
You dont like Wintersun? Fine, nobody will get hurt but implying they are an average band just because you dont like them? Are you even a musician? I bet a six pack you arent...
So, practice what you preach kid. You dont like a band, good, but don't go around thinking you are a music know-it-all when your own taste is rather questionable.
Cheers.
I am absolutely and utterly confused by your statements. What does me (not) being a musician have to with anything? I don't go around thinking I am a music "know-it-all"... you were the one who stated that my opinion was de-validated by my liking of Mastodon. You don't like Mastodon, I happen to, and that lead you to believe that my opinion couldn't be taken seriously, that's completely unreasonable. Also I didn't realize that English wasn't your primary language, I was being slightly closed minded by assuming so, so sorry for attacking your spelling
Dont worry about the spelling thing, common problem in international websites lol.
What I meant with my musician statment is that you cant go around saying " X band is an average band"... What are your bases? On what argument? And thats why I brought Mastodon to the mix here, I dont like them, I really dont appreaciate their music BUT I DONT SAY THEY ARE AN AVERAGE, BAD, SHIT OR ADJECTIVE YOU WANT BAND.
That's the main issue... Im not defending Wintersun, I like em yeah but it's not my band lol Im just making a point out here that everyone has different tastes.
Now back to Wintersun, to be honest I did get a little butthurt, I wont say "Wintersun music is the most complex metal in the world omg omg" nah... But in composition and song writting they are actually very structural and (If I may) progressive... (except the lyrics, I cant stand any more "IM SO SAD AND IM FREEZING" kind of shit lol)
Anyway, I wasnt trying to start a fight or anything bro, Im chill... You cant take the interwebz srsly.
btw, I only quoted you and answered straight to you and wont waste my TIME (lol) on Mr. Doctor. Again... this wasnt a internet fight. Cheers mate. |
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Written by HumanSpirit on 25.10.2012 at 01:50
What I meant with my musician statment is that you cant go around saying " X band is an average band"... What are your bases? On what argument?
That's the thing dude... What base? What argument?
He doesn't need one... it's called an opinion. If he finds it average and boring. That's how it is to him. The same way you find Mastodon awful and just the same way I really don't like broccoli... I don't need any basis for taste, if you don't like it you just don't and the beautiful thing is that you DO have the right to say it out loud if you feel like it.
Just to be clear... I'm not fighting with you. I'm just commenting on something. It's a forum after all so hopefully you won'y take my comments as a personal attack.
Mastodon sucks to you, Alex finds Wintersun an average band and I really can't stand Broccoli. It's all the same thing really. I doubt Alex will get pissed off if you say Mastodon sucks. It's your opinion, dude! You can say whatever the hell you like!  |
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I rated the album between 7.5-8 and i'll briefly explain why now after several listens.
The songs are very good, but are HEAVILY saturated by symphonics, which blend the vocals and guitars together. The music is so saturated that none of it 'stands out' as being an independent part except maybe the intro to the album and the opening riff off track 3. So what we have is GOOD music, but is so blended together it can be a little boring and seems to drag on a bit. I was thinking at first, 'maybe i just need to listen to it as i would classical music', but it's not exactly the same thing.
I think the score is lowered also because there is only 30 odd minutes of actual full songs. Had they have thrown in some beefier songs in between these, it may have worked a lot better?
Overall, it's a great album, i don't see much fairness in rating it below a 7 or above a 9. If you rated it below a 7 you are listening to the wrong genre clearly. If you rated it above a 9 you must find that 30 minutes of song pure masterpieces as to compensate for the shortness of the album (which is not going to be the case). |
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My first listen I was disappointed that the guitar work and harsh vocals took the background with the symphonic riffs and clean vocals taking the fore, but I've come to really enjoy the ethereal sound. And when the songs do glimmer with their 'old' sound, it accentuates the composition with good punch.
I noticed this album needs a good sound system to enjoy. There is a lot of modulation and decibal effects which become awkward to listen to on a crap system. Jari seems to deliberately create muffled segments within songs to make the crisp follow-ups stand out that much stronger. I found a huge difference on my high end system that can handle the layering and sampling.
The album is short but you can tell a boatload of work was put into it. Perhaps a bit too much - like an artist who keeps adding and adding with the goal of perfection, but failing to realize that artistic beauty is often best captured in simplicity of form. It's not that the song writing is complex - in fact it's fairly simple. It's the sound engineering that is complex.
The songs flow meticulously well with one another, despite twisting from japanesque instrumental to epic folk to symphonic melodic. Perhaps too many styles under one hood for most, but I'm definitely digging this release. Well wroth the wait IMO. |
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Listened to it one more time (  ) and almost want to drop my rating to a 4, I honestly can't believe it took him 8 years to make this. It's disappointing to me, and I wasn't even expecting much. |
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He plays on the left..... He plays on the raiiiiight!!!
That boy Jari! Made Ensiferum look shite!! |
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| I thought you didn't like Wintersun before Baz? |
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Written by Dark Cornatus on 25.10.2012 at 03:21
Overall, it's a great album, i don't see much fairness in rating it below a 7 or above a 9. If you rated it below a 7 you are listening to the wrong genre clearly. If you rated it above a 9 you must find that 30 minutes of song pure masterpieces as to compensate for the shortness of the album (which is not going to be the case).
I can't agree with such a strong statement. I found Wintersun's debut quite decent, so I rated it with a 7, whereas this one is a bit of a letdown, so I gave it a 6. In my opinion it's still not as bad as some people imply, but it's undeserving of the hype that surrounds it. I suppose many people are seduced by the rich sound of the album, and the technical prowess of the musicians. They indeed are impressive, but they can't hide the fact that the songs aren't as good as the band's performance. |
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Written by BoxCar Willy on 25.10.2012 at 06:20
Listened to it one more time ( ) and almost want to drop my rating to a 4, I honestly can't believe it took him 8 years to make this.
I doubt this album is of 4 quality, I mean obviously if you're out desecrating graves and buying disposable cameras to photograph dead friends it's not a good soundtrack, but it must be at least average. but that aside I agree the 8 years is pretty ridiculous. if you're gonna make 5 minutes of music per year every second of the album better be jam packed with magical things xD |
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 Ernis - 25.10.2012 at 19:59
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Thanks for the review, Baz. I think you found the best possible rating. I agree that it does sound good but it certainly is overrated because of the hype created during those eight years. I found Tyr's "Ragnarök" more polyphonic and spellbinding than "The Sons of Winter and Stars"... yep... lots of cheese... even more than in Nightwish...
Written by opeth771 on 22.10.2012 at 23:14
An average score is supposed to be an average score which in this case is 8.7 or 8.8 if you round it. 7.5 doesn't make any sense but I agree with the rest of the review
It amazes me that so many people still think that the average score is calculated by using the ratings for performance, songwriting, originality and production. Example: the performance is good, the songwriting is professional, the music is original and the production is crystal-clear but the album and music just DO NOT stand out enough to deserve a 10 even though the four parameters qualify for a 10. You really thought reviewers take out their calculators when they've finished writing?
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:33
Then you're deaf... Sorry to say that.
Let's say you like Megan Fox and I like Keira Knightley... will you say I'm blind just because I prefer Keira Knightley and not Megan Fox?
Other than that... how come this thread's got five pages? Most of it probably some off-topic drama... guys, spend more time outside! |
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EW - 26.10.2012 at 06:22
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Written by Ernis on 25.10.2012 at 19:59
Let's say you like Megan Fox and I like Keira Knightley... will you say I'm blind just because I prefer Keira Knightley and not Megan Fox?
You must be blind if you prefer Keira Knightly. Wayyy too skinny.
This album did feel way too short and incomplete. like having a cheesy burger with no fries and coke, I'm not completely satisfied. Plus the whole 2 album release thing feels like a cash grab to me. |
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Written by Daniell on 25.10.2012 at 16:26
Written by Dark Cornatus on 25.10.2012 at 03:21
I can't agree with such a strong statement. I found Wintersun's debut quite decent, so I rated it with a 7, whereas this one is a bit of a letdown, so I gave it a 6. In my opinion it's still not as bad as some people imply, but it's undeserving of the hype that surrounds it. I suppose many people are seduced by the rich sound of the album, and the technical prowess of the musicians. They indeed are impressive, but they can't hide the fact that the songs aren't as good as the band's performance.
agree, but i have to add that he focused in the wrong direction, layering , mixing and production more than songwriting ,composing and instruments , and that is a big flaw and i think that 8 years made him overworked the album not adding to it. |
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| By Italics logic we should all listen to pop instead of metal because it is more popular, therefore better. |
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Written by essbee on 26.10.2012 at 22:41
By Italics logic we should all listen to pop instead of metal because it is more popular, therefore better.
Exactly. He never did explain that particular argument (or any of his arguments really). |
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Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 26.10.2012 at 22:57
Exactly. He never did explain that particular argument (or any of his arguments really).
Why would he bother? He clearly beat you! |
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Ernis - 27.10.2012 at 01:36
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Written by EW on 26.10.2012 at 06:22
You must be blind if you prefer Keira Knightly. Wayyy too skinny.
This album did feel way too short and incomplete. like having a cheesy burger with no fries and coke, I'm not completely satisfied. Plus the whole 2 album release thing feels like a cash grab to me.
I like Keira because she's got a gorgeous face and everything about her is so feminine and graceful... sure I'd like her tits and backside a bit perkier... still, better slimmer than too plump... of course, once again, the perfect body means nothing if the face is homely or there are other factors that make her unattractive...
Back to the album... why did they release it as an album in the first place? Could've made an EP or something... |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 24.10.2012 at 23:17
He's not a musician... so what?
So if you want to...Let's say: Give your thoughts about a movie. You have to be a director, right? Or at least have quite some experience in the whole movie industry, right?
Because that's what you are saying... and It's retarded. He can say whatever he wants about any band... and so can you! I alsoI don't remember reading anywhere that he claimed he was a "know-it-all" so the "practice what you preach" argument is not really valid here.
Also... Man, you must have some sad inferiority problems if you dismiss someone's opinion just because of a band they listen to.
Yes...but when you have experience, then your opinion tends to start to have more value, and a stronger basis. Everyone is allowed to their own opinion on something.
Regarding the review, through listening to one song, I almost agree with the main idea of the review. It seems that there are so many different things going on, but it seems to lack many strong hooks and great songwriting, which was exhibited on the first one. This feels like it was written with a few boring ideas, then about 50 other tracks thrown on top of it to fill out sound. |
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Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 02:31
Yes...but when you have experience, then your opinion tends to start to have more value, and a stronger basis. Everyone is allowed to their own opinion on something.
That's pretty obvious... I just start to have problems when people imply that the only way to have an opinion about art is if you are an artist yourself. Which is by all means: Bullshit. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 27.10.2012 at 02:34
Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 02:31
Yes...but when you have experience, then your opinion tends to start to have more value, and a stronger basis. Everyone is allowed to their own opinion on something.
That's pretty obvious... I just have problem when people imply that the only way to have an opinion about art is if you are an artist yourself. Which by all means: Bullshit.
Agreed, being a musician can actually work against your favor in forming opinions. For example, you can say, "bebop is the most complex form of music, look at all of the music theory behind their work, everything else is pale in comparison", and then they could go on to try to force themselves to like grandpa jazz. In this very common case, the musician is misguided not just in music, but in life in general. He/she probably has a terrible opinion on music.
I have a problem when non musicians imply that every musician is pretentious. I'm not accusing you of this though. |
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Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 02:46
Agreed, being a musician can actually work against your favor in forming opinions.
A good example of that is when bands tell everyone they play x genre... where said genre couldn't be more off.  |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 27.10.2012 at 02:52
A good example of that is when bands tell everyone they play x genre... where said genre couldn't be more off.
Well, sort of agreed. When a band sets out to write x genre, and plays just that, it can sound pretty boring a lot of times. Opeth might be a good example of what you brought up, but they happen to have arguably one of the most authentic sounds in metal. |
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Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 03:09
Well, sort of agreed. When a band sets out to write x genre, and says they play it, it can sound pretty boring a lot of times. Opeth might be a good example of this, but they happen to have arguably one of the most authentic sounds in metal.
I was thinking more about bands like Dissection who said their last album was Black Metal and Children Of Bodom said the same thing at some point... Or Bring Me The Horizon that they played grindcore. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 27.10.2012 at 03:11
Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 03:09
Well, sort of agreed. When a band sets out to write x genre, and says they play it, it can sound pretty boring a lot of times. Opeth might be a good example of this, but they happen to have arguably one of the most authentic sounds in metal.
I was thinking more about bands like Dissection who said their last album was Black Metal and Children Of Bodom said the same thing at some point... Or Bring Me The Horizon that they played grindcore.
Children of Bodom was sort of black metal influenced at one point imo, and I think they always said they would classify themselves as just metal. But I'd rather not get into a stupid argument over that lol.
My point is that the last part of your statement is not of any value to this discussion because BMTH are not musicians.  |
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| Personally, I waited until I'd listened to the whole album 9 or 10 times through to say if I liked it or not. Just like any extremely complex/layered music, it takes a long time for everything to sink in and for the melodies to start to catch.. but once they do, it's hard to stop listening. Excited for part 2, especially "The Way of the Fire." |
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Written by Parasomnia on 27.10.2012 at 09:45
Personally, I waited until I'd listened to the whole album 9 or 10 times through to say if I liked it or not. Just like any extremely complex/layered music, it takes a long time for everything to sink in and for the melodies to start to catch.. but once they do, it's hard to stop listening. Excited for part 2, especially "The Way of the Fire."
Yeah, I hope that album will have more of the technical aspect of Wintersun everybody was waiting for. Where are the lightning-speed solos?? |
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RA - 27.10.2012 at 19:09
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Written by Carl Berg on 27.10.2012 at 17:57
Yeah, I hope that album will have more of the technical aspect of Wintersun everybody was waiting for. Where are the lightning-speed solos??
I didn't. Farewell, 'Everybody theory'. |
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| Wintersun should've stuck to being a generic Melodeath band with crazy shdredding. Adding 10293102930 layers of synth drawn in piano roll doesn't make the material anymore inspired. Jari should first learn to compose outside the cliche 'epic' metal sound. In the end, the effort seems pointless. |
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| I have finished listening to this so called great creation of the decade for the fifth time to really find out whether there is anything really great lying underneath which is not audible to a common music lover. As the critic said, it is true, it is really "complex" and is good for those who are learning to create a symphony in heavy metal one day... I don't know , maybe I will be placing myself among those stupid listeners who doesn't know the complex sides of music, but I don't mind coz I am not going to listen to it one more time bcos all the previous 5 times I didn't really get that "craving" for one more time. This is purely my opinion and pls do not fight with me over this, you music geniuses out there. |
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Passe - 09.11.2012 at 03:55
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| Despite of all which have been written on this album, I am very curious (and a bit of concerns) about a live performance with these songs. |
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| A bit too bombastic for petit moi. I've always enjoyed Jari's voice though, and I look forward to the day when I can hear the WHOLE album. |
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Written by Ernis on 27.10.2012 at 01:36
Written by EW on 26.10.2012 at 06:22
You must be blind if you prefer Keira Knightly. Wayyy too skinny.
I like Keira because .... everything about her is so feminine
Seriously?
she has no breasts or other curves
she is the perfect example of a woman that starved away all gender indications outside the crotch area |
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| Keira Knightly is the unattractive Natalie Portman. |
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Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 01.12.2012 at 16:11
Keira Knightly is the unattractive Natalie Portman.
THANK YOU!
That needed to be said. |
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| KK is indeed the unacttractive NP |
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| They're both attractive, only Natalie is more so. |
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| Fanboy remarks and other subjects aside, this is the metal album of 2012 - and one hell of a fucking sequel to the debut. |
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| I actually asked the Kai Hahto what takes so long (back in 2009) and he told me that the computers keep crashing because of the number of tracks on the songs. There's up to 1600 tracks in a song on that album. That's what took so long. |
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| And someone else believes they have been spouting about the computers |
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Written by henrihell93 on 10.01.2013 at 22:50
I actually asked the Kai Hahto what takes so long (back in 2009) and he told me that the computers keep crashing because of the number of tracks on the songs. There's up to 1600 tracks in a song on that album. That's what took so long.
And thats why this album sounds so shitty. No song will sound good with 1600 tracks on it, thats just straight clutter. They should have deleted some tracks instead of getting new computers and maybe the album wouldve sounded better, cleaner and more refined. Less is more sometimes. |
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