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The original post

Posted by BloodTears on 09.06.2009 at 14:55
New Dream Theater thread, the other one is deceased.


Let the discussion begin.



Page 13 of 17

Risto
Wandering Midget

Posts: 661

Age: 28
From: Finland

  30.03.2012 at 14:50
Written by Milena on 29.03.2012 at 20:51

I don't think that impression comes from not having Portnoy, but simply by them not finding a new fire like I hoped they did. But I think it would be better if they had Portnoy on board, because I don't see how Mangini could inspire them to go in a positive direction, while that chance MIGHT be present with Portnoy reuniting.

Then again, this seems to be the site where this kind of opinion is most popular, from what I've gathered I'm fine if they decide on bringing back Portnoy but he has to have his lesson learned of this. James did his best performance in years now that there wasn't too much of a control freak in the band.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  30.03.2012 at 14:52
Written by Risto on 30.03.2012 at 14:50

he has to have his lesson learned of this.

That would be the best possible option but I don't think he'll ever learn his lessons, sadly.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  31.03.2012 at 22:33
Written by Milena on 29.03.2012 at 20:51

I don't think that impression comes from not having Portnoy, but simply by them not finding a new fire like I hoped they did. But I think it would be better if they had Portnoy on board, because I don't see how Mangini could inspire them to go in a positive direction, while that chance MIGHT be present with Portnoy reuniting.

But probably not. One of my fave bands is going down the drain and that's why I'm so boring and that's why I can't stop talking about it :/


It's pretty clear that Portnoy was responsible for most of the "metal" in their sound (Petrucci seems to have mellowed and Rudess was never that into metal in the first place) because the heavier parts on the new album lack punch and bite, as if their hearts weren't in it. The real problem however seems to be that Portnoy has been the "engine" of the band in regards to concepts and general direction for so long that the rest of the guys have gotten somewhat complacent. Now, I'm not a Portnoy fanboy - the last four albums have all been very inconsistent and ADTOE continues along that path, but with less drive. Without someone there to push them they just seem unsure of what to do. Sure, there are some nice riffs and melodies, even a good song or two, but the album is just so… underwhelming.

The album was written before Mangini joined, so maybe they have a renewed sense of purpose now after touring with him and maybe he could contribute to the music the next time around? Maybe. As you said, seems like a risky gamble.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  31.03.2012 at 23:24
Written by Azarath on 31.03.2012 at 22:33

It's pretty clear that Portnoy was responsible for most of the "metal" in their sound (Petrucci seems to have mellowed and Rudess was never that into metal in the first place) because the heavier parts on the new album lack punch and bite, as if their hearts weren't in it. The real problem however seems to be that Portnoy has been the "engine" of the band in regards to concepts and general direction for so long that the rest of the guys have gotten somewhat complacent. Now, I'm not a Portnoy fanboy - the last four albums have all been very inconsistent and ADTOE continues along that path, but with less drive. Without someone there to push them they just seem unsure of what to do. Sure, there are some nice riffs and melodies, even a good song or two, but the album is just so… underwhelming.

The album was written before Mangini joined, so maybe they have a renewed sense of purpose now after touring with him and maybe he could contribute to the music the next time around? Maybe. As you said, seems like a risky gamble.

Ah, yes, you're quite right about all of that. My mind is just packed with questions now. On one hand, Portnoy has been pushing them really hard into this metal direction, and some of it certainly felt a bit forced. On the other hand, now that they have their hands free, they still aren't going full on soft, so I kinda wonder what could that mean, and will they do so in the future. I'm in two minds about this, because, well, there's nothing wrong with soft Dream Theater - they mostly lose their prog edge when they soften up, but everything goes as long as they don't go bland. On the last album, they really went bland. And that's just not listenable.

You touched on a topic very much overlooked too - Portnoy wasn't only the decision-maker when it comes to the general tone of the releases, but also pushed them really hard and he was/is a true workaholic indeed. Now, there are various reasons for this - I've heard the phrase "an ex-alcoholic in need of validation" but I don't think such claims have a trace of common decency in them, however true they may be. The band is now claiming he pushed a bit too hard, but maybe they actually need pushing? I mean, fuck me, if Train Of Thoughts is what DT gets when they write stuff in three weeks, this was probably written in a couple of days. Lazy days.

In the past three albums, there was always an epic long track as a highlight of the album ("The Ministry Of Lost Souls" and "The Count Of Tuscany"), and the contrast between that track and the rest of the album was the greatest in 2011, for the album is extremely bland and even pretty bad in places, and "Breaking All Illusions" is the best song they've written in the past ten years. This frustrates me a lot, because the proof they've still got it in their head, and that it just needs to get out properly, is right there, in the 12 awesome minutes of that song.

I do hope what you've said comes true, but if it does, I'll be very pleasantly surprised. Even though he's absolutely won my heart, I don't see that creative potential in Mangini, and I don't think bringing him into the band will aid their chemistry in an exciting way. He's so stable, thoughtful and respectful, scholarly... you need a little turbulence to write good metal. Their best work was written when they were in an uncertain position and/or frustrated - Images when they had no idea whether this "band" thing was going to work out or not, Awake was so angry and emotional, and they pulled it off with Kevin's leaving notice, Metropolis 2 came after a disappointment with the way the previous album was realized.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  03.04.2012 at 02:45
Written by Milena on 31.03.2012 at 23:24

Ah, yes, you're quite right about all of that. My mind is just packed with questions now. On one hand, Portnoy has been pushing them really hard into this metal direction, and some of it certainly felt a bit forced. On the other hand, now that they have their hands free, they still aren't going full on soft, so I kinda wonder what could that mean, and will they do so in the future. I'm in two minds about this, because, well, there's nothing wrong with soft Dream Theater - they mostly lose their prog edge when they soften up, but everything goes as long as they don't go bland. On the last album, they really went bland. And that's just not listenable.

You touched on a topic very much overlooked too - Portnoy wasn't only the decision-maker when it comes to the general tone of the releases, but also pushed them really hard and he was/is a true workaholic indeed. Now, there are various reasons for this - I've heard the phrase "an ex-alcoholic in need of validation" but I don't think such claims have a trace of common decency in them, however true they may be. The band is now claiming he pushed a bit too hard, but maybe they actually need pushing? I mean, fuck me, if Train Of Thoughts is what DT gets when they write stuff in three weeks, this was probably written in a couple of days. Lazy days.

In the past three albums, there was always an epic long track as a highlight of the album ("The Ministry Of Lost Souls" and "The Count Of Tuscany"), and the contrast between that track and the rest of the album was the greatest in 2011, for the album is extremely bland and even pretty bad in places, and "Breaking All Illusions" is the best song they've written in the past ten years. This frustrates me a lot, because the proof they've still got it in their head, and that it just needs to get out properly, is right there, in the 12 awesome minutes of that song.

I do hope what you've said comes true, but if it does, I'll be very pleasantly surprised. Even though he's absolutely won my heart, I don't see that creative potential in Mangini, and I don't think bringing him into the band will aid their chemistry in an exciting way. He's so stable, thoughtful and respectful, scholarly... you need a little turbulence to write good metal. Their best work was written when they were in an uncertain position and/or frustrated - Images when they had no idea whether this "band" thing was going to work out or not, Awake was so angry and emotional, and they pulled it off with Kevin's leaving notice, Metropolis 2 came after a disappointment with the way the previous album was realized.

Portnoy pushing them more into metal on the last two albums did feel forced and like he was desperately trying to stay hip and current (as much as he could within the established sound of Dream Theater). The new album is probably a more accurate reflection of where the other guys are at musically. I'd have no problem with DT going soft actually - Falling Into Infinity gets a lot of flak for being commercial and mainstream, personally I'd put it in my top 5. If they wanted to do a more melodic, laid-back album that could be really interesting. Now according to LaBrie ADTOE is melodically driven - to me much of it is bland and unmemorable.

Portnoy is a self-confessed OCD control freak so naturally he's going to push them where he thinks they should go, and if no one in the band says no he'll dictate much of their direction.
Most bands have a leader like that (some have two) and if they leave the band is left floundering. You'd think it would be different in this case since Petrucci and Rudess are the main songwriters but judging by the album they do need some pushing. Apparently they spent 2 months writing it. Lazy days indeed.

I agree that "Breaking All Illusions" is the best song on the album, by quite a wide margin. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's their best song of the past 10 years though - "Six Degrees…" takes that spot for me. I'd also pick "In the Presence of Enemies" as the epic long highlight of Systematic Chaos. I don't really have an opinion on Mangini, but he seems... polite. I'm not saying I think he will rekindle a new fire in the band - in fact, I consider it a very remote possibility. I'm just trying to figure out a scenario where they'd get inspired again. I'm probably rationalizing the whole thing.

Regarding their best work: pretty much all DT fans can agree on Images and Scenes. After that all bets are off. Scenes was the sound of a band liberated from outside pressure though - after the label forced songwriters and producers on them during FII, Scenes was DT being Finally Free, bringing Rudess onboard and doing things their way. Now, if they felt like Portnoy pushed them too hard you'd think they would take the opportunity to come back with a real statement now that he's out. And yet...
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  03.04.2012 at 10:08
Written by Azarath on 03.04.2012 at 02:45

"Six Degrees…" takes that spot for me. I'd also pick "In the Presence of Enemies" as the epic long highlight of Systematic Chaos. I don't really have an opinion on Mangini, but he seems... polite. I'm not saying I think he will rekindle a new fire in the band - in fact, I consider it a very remote possibility. I'm just trying to figure out a scenario where they'd get inspired again. I'm probably rationalizing the whole thing.

Now, if they felt like Portnoy pushed them too hard you'd think they would take the opportunity to come back with a real statement now that he's out. And yet...

Ah, yes, I've forgotten about Six Degrees (which a lot of people don't like but for me it's maybe even the best album they did since Scenes) Yeah "...polite" seems to be the correct word to describe him for the most part. I must say, when watching live footage of recent Dream Theater concerts, it seems to work - they seem to be having fun on stage and Mangini looks really natural there with them behind that big kit of his. But will he have equally useful contributions in the studio for the next album - we can only try to guess. And that is indeed the best thing we can do right now, until they release another album. I really thank you for this discussion, since I rarely get to talk with anyone about these things, and I'm glad to know my opinions aren't completely off for another fan

Yes! In my head I was comparing this to the Rudess/Scenes situation, where they were Finally Free (nice little expression), where they found a person they really wanted to work with, from a slightly different musical background then theirs, and where everything clicked properly. I thought they'd make a hell of an album and shut everyone up. But now, the comparison to the Moore crisis and Falling Into Infinity is more likely, a very key member just left the band and they're trying out different options while being under constant pressure. For me, FII is one of their most enjoyable albums, but some people think ADTOE is one of their most enjoyable albums. So both are extremely polarizing. I just don't know where the pressure factor came from in 2012. Maybe it was within themselves this time.

But after FII, whether you see it as good or bad (I see it as good) came the Scenes. We can only wait.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Daniell
GlenDronach!

Posts: 4947
From: Poland

  03.04.2012 at 10:30
Written by Milena on 03.04.2012 at 10:08


Ah, yes, I've forgotten about Six Degrees (which a lot of people don't like but for me it's maybe even the best album they did since Scenes)


Six Degrees (the title song) is a fart of a bloated ego. It's also a logical step forward after Scenes. Scenes was a brilliant concept album (the best prog concept album ever if you ask me), so the guys decided to get even more ambitious and wrote an ambitious, 40-minute song with all necessary elements of a suite thrown in: overture etc. Almost a classical music venture. Almost. The song is uninteresting and almost completely lacks character and memorable moments. I can only recall "The Test That Stumped Them All". Everything else is a faceless mass of misdirected ambition and wankery. Mind you, this only refers to the title song. The first CD that has "normal" songs is much more interesting, and I like it a lot, especially "The Glass Prison", "Blind Faith" and "Misunderstood" - these songs are brilliant.
----
Now loving:
Avatarium - Moonhorse
Domains - Domains
Entombed A.D. - Bait and Bleed
Opeth - Faith In Others
Vader - The End
Mastodon - Ember City
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  03.04.2012 at 10:41
Written by Daniell on 03.04.2012 at 10:30

Six Degrees (the title song) is a fart of a bloated ego. It's also a logical step forward after Scenes. Scenes was a brilliant concept album (the best prog concept album ever if you ask me), so the guys decided to get even more ambitious and wrote an ambitious, 40-minute song with all necessary elements of a suite thrown in: overture etc. Almost a classical music venture. Almost. The song is uninteresting and almost completely lacks character and memorable moments. I can only recall "The Test That Stumped Them All". Everything else is a faceless mass of misdirected ambition and wankery. Mind you, this only refers to the title song. The first CD that has "normal" songs is much more interesting, and I like it a lot, especially "The Glass Prison", "Blind Faith" and "Misunderstood" - these songs are brilliant.

Agree on the first CD completely, but "The Test That Stumped Them All" is the only part of 6DOIT which I didn't like as much as the others It's like a 40 minute album really, and for me a very interesting one... not anywhere close to Scenes that came before it, sure, but I wouldn't exactly call it a fart of a bloated ego.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  04.04.2012 at 22:10
Six Degrees is Dream Theater's last great album (so far?) and the title track is the best song they've written post-95. It ebbs and flows but it never goes into wanking territory despite it being one of DT's most "classic prog" influenced epics. Part of that is because of Rudess who, despite being my least favourite DT keyboardist, really shines here. His piano work is beautiful and melodic, even playful at times. I love the part at the end of "Solitary Shell" where they just relax and solo for a while, no rush to get to the next part. That laid-back feel is rare for DT. Also, all sections work well on their own and the transitions are almost seamless. The one exception would be "The Test That Stumped Them All" that goes on for a bit too long and has a rather clumsy introduction. Still, a stunning piece of work on the whole, full of ambition and confidence.

Oh, and the first CD is good too.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  15.04.2012 at 11:41
Written by Azarath on 04.04.2012 at 22:10

Six Degrees is Dream Theater's last great album (so far?) and the title track is the best song they've written post-95. It ebbs and flows but it never goes into wanking territory despite it being one of DT's most "classic prog" influenced epics. Part of that is because of Rudess who, despite being my least favourite DT keyboardist, really shines here. His piano work is beautiful and melodic, even playful at times. I love the part at the end of "Solitary Shell" where they just relax and solo for a while, no rush to get to the next part. That laid-back feel is rare for DT. Also, all sections work well on their own and the transitions are almost seamless. The one exception would be "The Test That Stumped Them All" that goes on for a bit too long and has a rather clumsy introduction. Still, a stunning piece of work on the whole, full of ambition and confidence.

Oh, and the first CD is good too.

A huge for the content of this post.

Searching around for interviews, I ran across this youtube classic.
My siblings were asleep while I was watching it, so I had to hold in my laugh and tears were running down my face... I just love it. The bit at the end was pretty creepy though. Mike the Prophet.
"There is a court jester dancing across the stage."
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  16.04.2012 at 22:38
Written by Milena on 15.04.2012 at 11:41

Searching around for interviews, I ran across this youtube classic.
My siblings were asleep while I was watching it, so I had to hold in my laugh and tears were running down my face... I just love it. The bit at the end was pretty creepy though. Mike the Prophet.
"There is a court jester dancing across the stage."

I haven't seen that before - a great compilation of the funniest bits from the DVD. I remember listening to the commentaries and cracking up at LaBrie's "you need to get a fucking life" comment. Also, Kevin translating japanese is hilarious.

"...but I had a pen and some paper, so what the fuck"
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  17.04.2012 at 00:47
Written by Azarath on 16.04.2012 at 22:38

I haven't seen that before - a great compilation of the funniest bits from the DVD. I remember listening to the commentaries and cracking up at LaBrie's "you need to get a fucking life" comment. Also, Kevin translating japanese is hilarious.

"...but I had a pen and some paper, so what the fuck"

My favorite bit was when they were commenting on the camera dude who couldn't catch the keyboard solo. And also everything involving James, especially when they were teasing him "...we recorded it at Beartracks... right?" and when he got up to warm up his coffee during the drum solo and also Jordan (was it Jordan? it sounded like his voice) asking "Mike, would you be insulted if I went to the bathroom?", I died there.

"We didn't get to meet Leslie Nielsen though" was fuckin' hillarious.
And the "we had a guy that died - right at the audition?".
Actually, everything cracked me up, bloody hell.

I really like watching their documentaries. I even ended up watching that "making of Images&Words" docu with the really shitty sound taken straight from the VHS tape... when the camera starts shooting John Myung practicing as usual, and then Mike told him "forget about that song, it is vetoed", and then you just know he's playing a piece from A Change Of Seasons. There was also a very nice bit of it, where John Myung plays most of Metropolis, the bass on that song is just insane and it's great to hear it separated, and also James singing Surrounded... awesome stuff.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Dane Train
Beers & Kilts

Posts: 8896

Age: 30
From: USA

  17.04.2012 at 22:41
Written by Milena on 17.04.2012 at 00:47

I really like watching their documentaries.


Have you ever watched their live DVD's commentary? The I&W material is great. There is one part where someone askes Myung what he is playing, as in what model, and he replies "It is called a bass."
----
(space for rent)
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  17.04.2012 at 22:50
Written by Dane Train on 17.04.2012 at 22:41

Have you ever watched their live DVD's commentary? The I&W material is great. There is one part where someone askes Myung what he is playing, as in what model, and he replies "It is called a bass."

I watched that one, but not the other ones, that clip I posted a couple of days ago has encouraged me to listen to all of them. Pretty damn funny.

I remember digging up some footage of some 1994 interview where John Myung talks a LOT... I lost the link, but I'm going to hunt for it again, hearing his voice is a pretty rare occasion, even though he is not as silent as some people make him out to be. He's an extraordinary character; I don't remember ever seeing him NOT practicing, except when they sit him down to do some official interview.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  18.04.2012 at 22:21
Written by Milena on 17.04.2012 at 00:47

My favorite bit was when they were commenting on the camera dude who couldn't catch the keyboard solo. And also everything involving James, especially when they were teasing him "...we recorded it at Beartracks... right?" and when he got up to warm up his coffee during the drum solo and also Jordan (was it Jordan? it sounded like his voice) asking "Mike, would you be insulted if I went to the bathroom?", I died there.

"We didn't get to meet Leslie Nielsen though" was fuckin' hillarious.
And the "we had a guy that died - right at the audition?".
Actually, everything cracked me up, bloody hell.

I really like watching their documentaries. I even ended up watching that "making of Images&Words" docu with the really shitty sound taken straight from the VHS tape...

Those two commentaries are full of fascinating facts and trivia, but to me the most pleasant surprise was that they don't take themselves too seriously - not even Portnoy got that upset and basically said "it's just a boring drum solo" when the others were teasing him, and there were a couple of moments where they poked fun at LaBrie's high-pitched screams (from the '93 concert). They're definitely worth listening to. If you're a geeky fan, that is.

Is that the "Making Images and Words" on youtube? I have it bookmarked but I haven't gotten around to watching it yet.

A couple of weeks ago I found this collection of samples from Awake and A Change of Seasons. I would have liked to see the Conan clip as well, but that might be hard to find.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  18.04.2012 at 22:32
Written by Azarath on 18.04.2012 at 22:21

Those two commentaries are full of fascinating facts and trivia, but to me the most pleasant surprise was that they don't take themselves too seriously - not even Portnoy got that upset and basically said "it's just a boring drum solo" when the others were teasing him, and there were a couple of moments where they poked fun at LaBrie's high-pitched screams (from the '93 concert). They're definitely worth listening to. If you're a geeky fan, that is.

Is that the "Making Images and Words" on youtube? I have it bookmarked but I haven't gotten around to watching it yet.

A couple of weeks ago I found this collection of samples from Awake and A Change of Seasons. I would have liked to see the Conan clip as well, but that might be hard to find.

A geeky fan is what I am Yeah, it is... the sound sucks balls but the material is nice... I got goosebumps when I watched it.
Oh yeah, I've seen those... I remember watching that Meryl Streep movie (back when I was still trying to watch movies like a normal person) featured in "The Mirror" ( with "what are you doing?") prior to hearing Awake, and when I heard the album for the first time, I immediately recognized it and it was a pretty cool moment for me.

I for one would very much like to hear the "full" samples in context in The Great Debate, and to figure out which person says which part during Repentance. I know that the final sample ("I wish you were here to show me the way", that's approximately how it ends) must be Daniel from PoS and that he's talking about his grandfather there... haven't read an official confirmation of that but I just know it's true, it's gotta be him.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  21.04.2012 at 14:02
Written by Milena on 18.04.2012 at 22:32

A geeky fan is what I am Yeah, it is... the sound sucks balls but the material is nice... I got goosebumps when I watched it.
Oh yeah, I've seen those... I remember watching that Meryl Streep movie (back when I was still trying to watch movies like a normal person) featured in "The Mirror" ( with "what are you doing?") prior to hearing Awake, and when I heard the album for the first time, I immediately recognized it and it was a pretty cool moment for me.

I for one would very much like to hear the "full" samples in context in The Great Debate, and to figure out which person says which part during Repentance. I know that the final sample ("I wish you were here to show me the way", that's approximately how it ends) must be Daniel from PoS and that he's talking about his grandfather there... haven't read an official confirmation of that but I just know it's true, it's gotta be him.

Aren't all prog fans slightly geeky? I really want to see that movie A Room with a View. Love the "He doesn't love you. But I love you!" part.

Wilson and Åkerfeldt are the easy ones to pick out in Repentance, and Corey Taylor is probably the one mumbling about failing people and saying dumb shit like "The truth is the truth, so all you can do is live with it". In the Making Of documentary you can see some of the names on the screen during mixing. Musically The Great Debate is very good but I'm not a big fan of the lyrics and samples. I still can't believe a band would actually pick that subject matter but what really bugs me is the inflated sense of self importance. "Pay attention to the questions we have raised." Seriously?

"You know, before I wasn't sure what to think but now that Dream Theater has shed some light on the various issues I know where I stand."

Sorry, slight tangent there.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  21.04.2012 at 15:52
Written by Azarath on 21.04.2012 at 14:02

"You know, before I wasn't sure what to think but now that Dream Theater has shed some light on the various issues I know where I stand."

I know what you mean. But still, that's slightly better than the usual death, love and similar. None of them is a perfect lyricist though. Petrucci is hit-or-miss, LaBrie is relatively okay but doesn't contribute much, Portnoy could have been more restrained and focused while he was still in the band (but his lyrics are probably the "most metal")... Kevin was really good, but sometimes suffered from the "tortured artist" syndrome - Mike described it pretty well, although harshly, in Raise The Knife. I'd like to hear more of Myung. His lyrics really put the "dream" in Dream Theater.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  21.04.2012 at 19:57
Written by Milena on 21.04.2012 at 15:52

Petrucci is hit-or-miss, LaBrie is relatively okay but doesn't contribute much, Portnoy could have been more restrained and focused while he was still in the band (but his lyrics are probably the "most metal")... Kevin was really good, but sometimes suffered from the "tortured artist" syndrome - Mike described it pretty well, although harshly, in Raise The Knife. I'd like to hear more of Myung. His lyrics really put the "dream" in Dream Theater.

Both Petrucci and Portnoy are hit-or-miss lyric-wise, but that's to be expected since they've written so much. I'd like to hear more from both LaBrie and Myung. The 3 songs Myung wrote between '92 and '97 are beautiful. You won't hear me say anything bad about Kevin - his lyrics are great, from the ones with incoherent, bizarre imagery to the personal, emotional ones. And Space-Dye Vest, which I can never shut up about, is a masterpiece. Then again, maybe I say that because it hits close to home.

I've actually never read the lyrics for Raise The Knife before now - they aren't just harsh, they're almost mean-spirited. Has Portnoy ever confirmed what they're about? Still, it's ironic that the same person who wrote
Quote:

They all bought into your contrived sincerity
And how you wore your heart and soul right on your sleeve
Laughing sarcastically
You turned your back on the people who adored you

I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away

ended up writing a song about the death of his mother, another about the death of his father and an hour-long suite about his struggle with alcoholism. And then he left the band.


By the way, sorry for not leaving this thread (or you, for that matter) alone.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  21.04.2012 at 21:39
Written by Azarath on 21.04.2012 at 19:57

he 3 songs Myung wrote between '92 and '97 are beautiful. You won't hear me say anything bad about Kevin - his lyrics are great, from the ones with incoherent, bizarre imagery to the personal, emotional ones. And Space-Dye Vest, which I can never shut up about, is a masterpiece. Then again, maybe I say that because it hits close to home.

I've actually never read the lyrics for Raise The Knife before now - they aren't just harsh, they're almost mean-spirited. Has Portnoy ever confirmed what they're about? Still, it's ironic that the same person who wrote
Quote:

They all bought into your contrived sincerity
And how you wore your heart and soul right on your sleeve
Laughing sarcastically
You turned your back on the people who adored you

I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away

ended up writing a song about the death of his mother, another about the death of his father and an hour-long suite about his struggle with alcoholism. And then he left the band.


By the way, sorry for not leaving this thread (or you, for that matter) alone.

He confirmed that, starting with the second verse, the lyrics are indeed about Kevin. Yeah, Mike was into making drama out of nothing, I for one really admire Kevin for what he did. He just packed his bags and left and had no idea where he was going, but he knew he wanted a change. That's something I could never do. Still, I think the "tortured artist" part is true, although not as bad as Mike pointed it out to be, because I've dealt with such people. Ultimately, whatever Kevin is, I'm glad he's also so secluded and mysterious, because, if he is a bit of a jerk, that would spoil some of his beautiful music to me. It's better not to know

Though, I am a bit sick of people who keep saying "no Moore = no Theater", especially when they're my age or younger and when they haven't been around when he was around in Theater. He was in Theater at the time ALL of them were shitting brilliance. To judge him completely as an artist, you must also take into consideration Chroma Key and OSI. OSI I have taken into consideration, and he is still bloody good to me I'll dive into Chroma Key too, soon enough.

Are you kidding me? I love talking about Dream Theater (well, actually, I love talking about all of my favorite bands, but I'm getting re-obsessed with DT at the moment) and I've already bored all of the people around me with talking about them... I consider it a major success that I've gotten le boyfriend into DT, and that I've trained my best friend not to roll his eyes every time I mention DT, but that's about it also, I have a couple of younger friends that are only now getting into DT, and I swoon every time I see their DT-related links posted on Facebook... I remember how it was for me some 3-4 years ago When and how did you get into DT?
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  23.04.2012 at 23:21
Written by Milena on 21.04.2012 at 21:39

He confirmed that, starting with the second verse, the lyrics are indeed about Kevin. Yeah, Mike was into making drama out of nothing, I for one really admire Kevin for what he did. He just packed his bags and left and had no idea where he was going, but he knew he wanted a change. That's something I could never do. Still, I think the "tortured artist" part is true, although not as bad as Mike pointed it out to be, because I've dealt with such people. Ultimately, whatever Kevin is, I'm glad he's also so secluded and mysterious, because, if he is a bit of a jerk, that would spoil some of his beautiful music to me. It's better not to know

Though, I am a bit sick of people who keep saying "no Moore = no Theater", especially when they're my age or younger and when they haven't been around when he was around in Theater. He was in Theater at the time ALL of them were shitting brilliance. To judge him completely as an artist, you must also take into consideration Chroma Key and OSI. OSI I have taken into consideration, and he is still bloody good to me I'll dive into Chroma Key too, soon enough.

Are you kidding me? I love talking about Dream Theater (well, actually, I love talking about all of my favorite bands, but I'm getting re-obsessed with DT at the moment) and I've already bored all of the people around me with talking about them... I consider it a major success that I've gotten le boyfriend into DT, and that I've trained my best friend not to roll his eyes every time I mention DT, but that's about it also, I have a couple of younger friends that are only now getting into DT, and I swoon every time I see their DT-related links posted on Facebook... I remember how it was for me some 3-4 years ago When and how did you get into DT?

I agree with what you said about Kevin. You have to respect someone who leaves everything he's ever known behind to start again. According to both Portnoy and Petrucci (who grew up with him after all) Kevin had a great sense of humour in the early days but later became more distant and introverted. I can imagine that leading to a personality clash since Portnoy is a raging extrovert but he seems to have taken it personally when Kevin left. He might have been a "tortured artist" but why take cheap shots like "false sensitivity" and "contrived sincerity"? Surely it was best for everyone that he left if his heart wasn't in it anymore? Maybe he even was a bit of a jerk but it just looks like Portnoy is being petty.

I'm still of the opinion that they did lose something when Kevin left, but it's obviously unfair to attribute the greatness of Images and Awake to just him. I'll stand by my "heart and soul of Dream Theater" comment, because their material hasn't moved me (at least not nearly as much) since his exit. Don't get me wrong, they've done some great work since then. Oh, and I've listened to quite a lot of OSI and sampled Chroma Key here and there.

I don't know, for some reason I seem to post quite a lot in this thread and wasn't sure about the proper etiquette. Speaking of not being around when Kevin was in DT, I picked up my first albums in '08 so I'm basically a newbie. My fascination with prog had started a couple of years earlier and DT was a band that kept showing up here and there, so I decided to give them a try. My first ones were (surprisingly) Images and Scenes, and a couple of weeks later I got A Change of Seasons. It was not love at first sight - for everything I really liked there was something I disliked (I still remember being annoyed at the middle section of Metropolis). But I kept listening sporadically, slowly getting into it, picking up Awake in the spring of '09 and checking out their newest stuff on youtube. Awake clicked in a major way that fall, but I still felt no rush to go out and get anything else since nothing else I'd heard online had really grabbed me. For whatever reason I decided to get WDADU and FII (their least popular work) in mid-'10 - I immediately liked FII (a lot), and enjoyed WDADU. That was basically me throwing my hands up and going "Ok, I guess I like this band". Bought Six Degrees - loved Six Degrees. And then I kept going chronologically...

In my head that story didn't seem that long and boring. Sorry.
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  23.04.2012 at 23:47
Written by Azarath on 23.04.2012 at 23:21

...it just looks like Portnoy is being petty.

*the story*

This is precisely why I love that Kevin is mysterious - I'd probably still adore Portnoy if it weren't for his fallouts with... well, everyone and everything. He shouldn't have put so much of himself out there. That is his way of dealing with things, that's who he is, but he also put the worst of himself out there and I find him... really hard to honestly respect nowadays. I wish him all the best in everything he decides to do, until the rest of his career, but my heart's not with him any more.

Having Kevin in the 90's certainly helped... they just shot straight to God-status with the combination of their unique ways of expression, and having such a creative and imaginative guy, in the way Kevin was/is (because all of them are creative and imaginative, and the later DT keyboardists are as well, but Kev's way really fitted the music back then) is a part of what propelled them to that height. His music and ways of expression have too changed, but that is only natural and I like everything I've heard/read from him so far. I guess I always saw him as this Romanticist persona stuck in the 21st century (actually, him being a bit of a jerk would only contribute to this notion ), with his moves and searching for things in other places and trying to remove the "veils". His lyrics stroke me as more symbolist - Verlaine, Rimbaud, Baudelaire as a precursor of the movement and all that jazz - especially his "ivory tower" in Surrounded, the fluidity and obscurity and introspective observations, and also the pictures he paints. I remember listening about symbolism and the French poets in class and thinking "holy crap, these are Kevin Moore's songs".

(Mental note: never meet Kevin Moore, or for goodness sake, when you do, never speak about this because he's either gonna be embarrassed or way too amused).

We got into DT at the exact same time, and our album chronology is more or less the same... dude, get out of my head, we're getting creepy
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  26.04.2012 at 18:40
Written by Milena on 23.04.2012 at 23:47

This is precisely why I love that Kevin is mysterious - I'd probably still adore Portnoy if it weren't for his fallouts with... well, everyone and everything.

Having Kevin in the 90's certainly helped... they just shot straight to God-status with the combination of their unique ways of expression, and having such a creative and imaginative guy, in the way Kevin was/is (because all of them are creative and imaginative, and the later DT keyboardists are as well, but Kev's way really fitted the music back then) is a part of what propelled them to that height. His music and ways of expression have too changed, but that is only natural and I like everything I've heard/read from him so far. I guess I always saw him as this Romanticist persona stuck in the 21st century...

(Mental note: never meet Kevin Moore, or for goodness sake, when you do, never speak about this because he's either gonna be embarrassed or way too amused).

We got into DT at the exact same time, and our album chronology is more or less the same... dude, get out of my head, we're getting creepy

I've often found myself wishing that Portnoy would just shut up. I probably wouldn't respect Kevin either if he'd constantly bitch about his time in Dream Theater, but he doesn't talk about it, which is the way to go. If you don't have anything nice to say...

All DT keyboardist have been right for their time, even if Rudess is getting more and more insufferable with his wanky solos. But I don't see Kevin as fitting in on Systematic Chaos for example. I think it's best that I don't try to comment on the symbolism stuff - I'm a formal sciences guy. I still think it's a good idea for you to ask Kevin about all that if you ever meet him.

I thought it was pretty creepy when you posted about your favourite songs in the Octavarium thread - I could have agreed there as well, but that would have been sad. Surely your album chronology is at least slightly different? Oh, and were you a fan immediately or did it take a while?
Milena
Learning To "X"

Posts: 4380

Age: 22
From: Serbia

  26.04.2012 at 22:48
Written by Azarath on 26.04.2012 at 18:40

I still think it's a good idea for you to ask Kevin about all that if you ever meet him.

I thought it was pretty creepy when you posted about your favourite songs in the Octavarium thread - I could have agreed there as well, but that would have been sad. Surely your album chronology is at least slightly different? Oh, and were you a fan immediately or did it take a while?

I'd probably tell him something like "Now you're a real person, not just a voice in my headphones!" I have no idea what would I tell them if I ever met them. Rudess, for example, is known to be REALLY easy to talk to - there are stories of him approaching the fans first if he sees them wearing DT shirts if they don't notice him first, which I find incredibly sweet, although I'd be completely startled if he did that to me. James also seems pretty easy-going and I'd try to make him talk as much as I could so I could pick up his accent (accent obsessed). I have no idea what would I say to the two Johns, for example. I guess Petrucci hears a lot of "thanks bro, your music helped me when I was depressed". And I guess Myung is tired of "so you're the new bassist, huh?"

Yeah, it's creepy all right When I first heard them in 2008, I had a phase of going through bands' discogs by loading them into my player and pressing shuffle so I can't say what was my first DT album but I remember that I liked about half of it and disliked the same amount. It was something I had never heard before. When I finally started listening to them "properly" in 2009, I remember I didn't like Awake on my first listen so I decided to put it away for a year and see what happens - and of course, when I revisited it, I was ridiculously in love with it. And the rest is more or less what you described, except I only started considering getting into this "progressive" thing after I concluded I liked Dream Theater. And I'm glad I did.
----
"There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors."
Azarath

Posts: 503

Age: 31
From: Finland

  28.04.2012 at 22:05
Written by Milena on 26.04.2012 at 22:48

I'd probably tell him something like "Now you're a real person, not just a voice in my headphones!" I have no idea what would I tell them if I ever met them.

Yeah, it's creepy all right When I first heard them in 2008, I had a phase of going through bands' discogs by loading them into my player and pressing shuffle so I can't say what was my first DT album but I remember that I liked about half of it and disliked the same amount. It was something I had never heard before.

If I ever were to meet Kevin I'd probably (after the obligatory "big fan of your work" comments) ask him lots of questions about his emotional well-being. "Have you succeeded in being open since '94? And if so, how?" I don't really know if I'd have anything to talk about with the rest of them, though Rudess always seems open and down to earth. The two Johns seem much more private.

Listening to albums (and especially prog) in shuffle mode? How very... interesting. I had already listened to most of the big names in classic prog before I started with Dream Theater. And there was a lot of Rush just before that eventually led me to discovering them. I wasn't expecting much - I basically just gave them a chance so that later I could say that I didn't like them. It seems hilarious to look back at that now. Every prog band has always taken a while for me to get into. Besides the Floyd, of course.
Cynic Metalhead
My Fucking Mitch

Posts: 3706

Age: 24
From: India

  17.05.2012 at 18:03
Guys!
[IMPORTANT MESSAGE]

If anybody knows where Mora is/ where she got kidnapped / is she alive? or not?...I'll reward that guy with 560 pounds( I think that's enough!).

Update Asap.
----
Unhealer
Eclecticist

Posts: 2004

Age: 23
From: Argentina

  18.05.2012 at 01:34
She was online a few days ago, Sonata Arctica thread is proof of that.

She is probably busy studying as I should be since I have exams next week...
BloodTears
Stella Artois

Posts: 9581

Age: 28
From: Portugal

  18.05.2012 at 13:28
She is alive guys, worry not
----
Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29

Like you could kiss my ass.
oblong
Account deleted
  07.06.2012 at 16:11
Written by Milena on 15.04.2012 at 11:41

Written by Azarath on 04.04.2012 at 22:10

Six Degrees is Dream Theater's last great album (so far?) and the title track is the best song they've written post-95. It ebbs and flows but it never goes into wanking territory despite it being one of DT's most "classic prog" influenced epics. Part of that is because of Rudess who, despite being my least favourite DT keyboardist, really shines here. His piano work is beautiful and melodic, even playful at times. I love the part at the end of "Solitary Shell" where they just relax and solo for a while, no rush to get to the next part. That laid-back feel is rare for DT. Also, all sections work well on their own and the transitions are almost seamless. The one exception would be "The Test That Stumped Them All" that goes on for a bit too long and has a rather clumsy introduction. Still, a stunning piece of work on the whole, full of ambition and confidence.

Oh, and the first CD is good too.

A huge for the content of this post.

Searching around for interviews, I ran across this youtube classic.
My siblings were asleep while I was watching it, so I had to hold in my laugh and tears were running down my face... I just love it. The bit at the end was pretty creepy though. Mike the Prophet.
"There is a court jester dancing across the stage."


I was just about to post the same video - but figured it would already be here : )
oblong
Account deleted
  10.06.2012 at 10:20
Rainy day today - spent watching Dream Theater DVD's

James is really good in this, imo.

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