It's actually skyrocketing in views. It's been sent to some big names and garnered a lot of positive attention. This was an issue that years ago, I would of fought tooth and nail, and ashamedly became a bit apathetic when it came to keeping up with the issue. This article has kind of reinvigorated me for all the right reasons, I'm glad to know Bryan, incredibly smart and humble person.

Yeah..sex sells...what else is new....

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 28.06.2014 at 15:01

Yeah..sex sells...what else is new....

just a bit sad how dominant it is in metal.

what else is new? ah...people have learnt to see things in more than black and white

This post is really stupid.

Written by Guest on 28.06.2014 at 23:51

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 28.06.2014 at 15:01

Yeah..sex sells...what else is new....

just a bit sad how dominant it is in metal.

what else is new? ah...people have learnt to see things in more than black and white

no but people acting all surprised about it is way more shocking ... i mean i dont give a damn about how bands would try to promote them selves but i can totally see that "hot chick" gimmick would do the trick like 50% of times.Than again same goes for "satanic" imagery or over the top "gore and vulgarity".Its marketing 101 guys : "The hen' eggs are eaten more than goose's cause hens are not silent when it lays them".

EDIT
Also why sad to be dominant in metal? its just another form of art and business not some fairyland where everything is supposed to be righteous or right or other fairy-tale bullshit...

Nobody is surprised, nobody is shocked. But it doesn't render the subject uninteresting to talk about. We get that you got the whole picture.

Angel it's not about being shocked or such, why men never get criticized for their look although they might be really fat, out of shape or and such but a woman for getting on stage and performing is the other way round, they all must be super hot,attractive and barby-like chicks to get into bands and be a member.

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 29.06.2014 at 12:15

Than again same goes for "satanic" imagery or over the top "gore and vulgarity".Its marketing 101 guys : "The hen' eggs are eaten more than goose's cause hens are not silent when it lays them".

A girl is not a marketing gimmick, she's a band member.

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 29.06.2014 at 12:15
no but people acting all surprised about it is way more shocking ... i mean i dont give a damn about how bands would try to promote them selves but i can totally see that "hot chick" gimmick would do the trick like 50% of times.Than again same goes for "satanic" imagery or over the top "gore and vulgarity".Its marketing 101 guys : "The hen' eggs are eaten more than goose's cause hens are not silent when it lays them".

EDIT
Also why sad to be dominant in metal? its just another form of art and business not some fairyland where everything is supposed to be righteous or right or other fairy-tale bullshit...

You're missing the point. Nobody here has stated their "shock" over this issue because none of us are shocked. We understand that it's marketing and in that respect it's no different than selling satanic imagery or gore and vulgarity. The issue here is that, while metal is as much a business as any other art form, that women are held to different standards simply because they're not men. They are subject to scrutiny based on their appearance rather than their ability to play an instrument or sing or write a song. It seems the majority of fans are more interested in judging whether or not the female musicians in this scene are fuckable as opposed to whether they should be considered one of the best in their respective craft.

Here's an example of that indirect sexism I referred to earlier, keeping in mind the user in question isn't an outwardly sexist person but it just goes to further prove my point that in this scene it seems men put more emphasis on the appearance on female musicians - who are members of the band by the way, and should not be used as a marketing gimmick.

Written by Ag Fox on 29.06.2014 at 15:41
Heidi is cute! shame that she left

That's in response to a new lyric video by The Man-Eating Tree. Notice he didn't point out the fact that Heidi is a talented musician, or that Heidi brings an interesting dynamic to the band aside from the way she looks. In fact, there wasn't even a comment on the music, video, or other band members. Just, "Heidi is cute". Now I'm not saying we aren't allowed to comment on the appearance of women because that would violate your freedom of speech. And I'm not saying that men are the only ones who comment on appearances, as you can just look to your average Swallow the Sun or Children of Bodom thread for the same thing being said about the musicians in those bands. But those same girls commenting on the attractiveness of male musicians also tend to offer up a far more objective and critical analysis of what that band member brings to the table aside from just how good they look. And they also tend to not be so judgmental of the male musicians that aren't attractive to them.

(Sorry to use you as an example Fox, your comment was just too good to pass up.)

Well, it's the same as being very surprised when an attractive person is good at his/her job. Everyone expects physically advantaged people to be dumb and/or incompetent. That's another form of a priori against one's appearance.

EDIT: Meant as a reference to what Frit said. You sneaky bitch, you deleted it!

Written by Ilham on 29.06.2014 at 18:19

Well, it's the same as being very surprised when an attractive person is good at his/her job. Everyone expects physically advantaged people to be dumb and/or incompetent. That's another form of a priori against one's appearance.

EDIT: Meant as a reference to what Frit said. You sneaky bitch, you deleted it!

I just wanted to edit but I removed it, DARRRRRRRRN !

Written by angel. on 29.06.2014 at 18:27

I just wanted to edit but I removed it, DARRRRRRRRN !

I'll allow it. But only because you're cute and not fat.

Written by Ganondox on 29.06.2014 at 17:14

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 29.06.2014 at 12:15

Than again same goes for "satanic" imagery or over the top "gore and vulgarity".Its marketing 101 guys : "The hen' eggs are eaten more than goose's cause hens are not silent when it lays them".

A girl is not a marketing gimmick, she's a band member.

depends on quality of her musicianship and work...then again yes she is member no disagreeing about that

Written by Troy Killjoy on 29.06.2014 at 17:27

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 29.06.2014 at 12:15
no but people acting all surprised about it is way more shocking ... i mean i dont give a damn about how bands would try to promote them selves but i can totally see that "hot chick" gimmick would do the trick like 50% of times.Than again same goes for "satanic" imagery or over the top "gore and vulgarity".Its marketing 101 guys : "The hen' eggs are eaten more than goose's cause hens are not silent when it lays them".

EDIT
Also why sad to be dominant in metal? its just another form of art and business not some fairyland where everything is supposed to be righteous or right or other fairy-tale bullshit...

You're missing the point. Nobody here has stated their "shock" over this issue because none of us are shocked. We understand that it's marketing and in that respect it's no different than selling satanic imagery or gore and vulgarity. The issue here is that, while metal is as much a business as any other art form, that women are held to different standards simply because they're not men. They are subject to scrutiny based on their appearance rather than their ability to play an instrument or sing or write a song. It seems the majority of fans are more interested in judging whether or not the female musicians in this scene are fuckable as opposed to whether they should be considered one of the best in their respective craft.

Here's an example of that indirect sexism I referred to earlier, keeping in mind the user in question isn't an outwardly sexist person but it just goes to further prove my point that in this scene it seems men put more emphasis on the appearance on female musicians - who are members of the band by the way, and should not be used as a marketing gimmick.

Written by Ag Fox on 29.06.2014 at 15:41
Heidi is cute! shame that she left

That's in response to a new lyric video by The Man-Eating Tree. Notice he didn't point out the fact that Heidi is a talented musician, or that Heidi brings an interesting dynamic to the band aside from the way she looks. In fact, there wasn't even a comment on the music, video, or other band members. Just, "Heidi is cute". Now I'm not saying we aren't allowed to comment on the appearance of women because that would violate your freedom of speech. And I'm not saying that men are the only ones who comment on appearances, as you can just look to your average Swallow the Sun or Children of Bodom thread for the same thing being said about the musicians in those bands. But those same girls commenting on the attractiveness of male musicians also tend to offer up a far more objective and critical analysis of what that band member brings to the table aside from just how good they look. And they also tend to not be so judgmental of the male musicians that aren't attractive to them.

(Sorry to use you as an example Fox, your comment was just too good to pass up.)

nah i read what you said,i agree ..i was thinking that @no one didnt get why i wrote "sex sells..what else is new",so i really wanted to elaborate

Written by deadone on 01.07.2014 at 03:22

In Metal, being a chick in a band is often a gimmick.

Look at Arch Enemy or all the "oohing and ahing" when Lacuna Coil, Nightwish and Epica started to make waves with female singers. Or Huntress and Butcher Babies that are making a living off chicks with boobs. Is it Revolver magazine that makes a living off lists of hottest babes in metal complete with photos.

Personally I think it's a croc of shit - gender shouldn't matter. But metal is a masculine type of music and it's main listeners are usually teenage boys.

None of those first bands used it as a gimmick, they just happened to have female members. The only reason Nightwish even exists is because Tarja had such a powerful voice, they were originally planning on being an acoustic alternative rock band, but they figured metal fit her voice better, so they played metal and ended up creating a genre. There is nothing gimmicky about Epica or Lacuna Coil, female vocalists have always been prominant if not dominant in their subgenres. As for Arch Enemy, Angela was an expirienced death metal vocalist before she joined Arch Enemy, she got the job because she had the best performance at Arch Enemy's audition. As far as I'm aware Arch Enemy never actually played off of it, fans just made a gimmick out of it because they were already a successful melodeath band, and now they had a female vocalist, plenty of less popular death metal bands have female vocalists as well. Just because boys love them for reasons other than their singing doesn't mean they're gimmicks. Yes, the fact a girl is in the band can be played as a gimmick, particularly for Butcher Babes, but there are enough girls in metal now that it cannot be called gimmick unless the band is particularly playing some element up.

While most metal musicains are male and most metalheads are male, I've never seen heavy metal as being particularly masculine in and of itself. Hardcore punk and hard rock, yes, but if you strip metal to it's base, it's rather androgynous, soften it a bit and mix it with pop and it's quite feminine. The glam guy's gimmick was that they were hypermasculine because they could get away with being incredibly girly.

Written by deadone on 01.07.2014 at 07:46

Written by Ganondox on 01.07.2014 at 06:41


None of those first bands used it as a gimmick, they just happened to have female members. The only reason Nightwish even exists is because Tarja had such a powerful voice, they were originally planning on being an acoustic alternative rock band, but they figured metal fit her voice better, so they played metal and ended up creating a genre. There is nothing gimmicky about Epica or Lacuna Coil, female vocalists have always been prominant if not dominant in their subgenres. As for Arch Enemy, Angela was an expirienced death metal vocalist before she joined Arch Enemy, she got the job because she had the best performance at Arch Enemy's audition. As far as I'm aware Arch Enemy never actually played off of it, fans just made a gimmick out of it because they were already a successful melodeath band, and now they had a female vocalist, plenty of less popular death metal bands have female vocalists as well. Just because boys love them for reasons other than their singing doesn't mean they're gimmicks. Yes, the fact a girl is in the band can be played as a gimmick, particularly for Butcher Babes, but there are enough girls in metal now that it cannot be called gimmick unless the band is particularly playing some element up.

They were portrayed as gimmicks by the metal press of the day.

And the discussion on a lot of metal forums at the time was "look hot chicks" not "look good vocalists."

That's the press and fans, not the actual bands.

Quote:

Quote:
While most metal musicains are male and most metalheads are male, I've never seen heavy metal as being particularly masculine in and of itself. Hardcore punk and hard rock, yes, but if you strip metal to it's base, it's rather androgynous, soften it a bit and mix it with pop and it's quite feminine. The glam guy's gimmick was that they were hypermasculine because they could get away with being incredibly girly.

Heavy Metal has always been a masculine genre - the music, the imagery, lyrics, the aggrerssion and in the early days the machismo etc etc.


And for most of it's existence it was nearly exclusively male and even today females in bands are extremely rare.

Do you listen to Thrash/Death/traditional? Those genres are extremely masculine a lot of the time.

I'd describe the imagry as more dark than masculine, gothic rock uses much of the same imagry but it's considered the most feminine rock genre aside from maybe shoegaze and that current indie stuff. Also, you seemed to skip over the hardcore punk/hard rock and in and of itself part. "Do you listen to Thrash/Death/traditional? Those genres are extremely masculine a lot of the time." The only one of those I really like is traditional, but yes, I listen to them all. Yes, thrash is very masculine, but it takes that hardcore punk. As for traditional heavy metal, in comparison to hard rock it isn't as masculine, though it is more male dominated, and it came out of hard rock. Power metal is pretty close to traditional heavy metal, and it's only masculine if you insist anything nerdy is masculine. With Death metal, death metal is very masculine, but it's also just dark and "messy", and then is melodic death metal, which is somewhat feminine at times. To complete extreme metal there is black metal, which while it it's from speed metal I'd actually say it has a rather feminine sound to it, else bands like Alcest wouldn't exist, and then there is extreme doom, which gave raise to gothic metal, so yeah.

Written by deadone on 01.07.2014 at 08:45

Metal is almost universally descirbed as very masculine music.

And it's main market is young teenage males. And the ones that persist with metal after their teenage years are males (and often the more misfits).

Go to any concert and see ratio of male to female - males dominate a lot (especially at DM gigs). Even on this website, only 17% of all 52,462 members are female.

I already said that I'm not taking male domination into account if the genre is inherently masculine or not, I don't care about gender ratio statistics, I'm talking about something more subjective. If you want I can make a list comparing musical traits I consider feminine with those I consider masculine, in fact I've been planning on writing a full analysis on feminity/masculinity and other traits in various metal, so give me some time.

Written by deadone on 01.07.2014 at 09:06

Written by Ganondox on 01.07.2014 at 08:59

Written by deadone on 01.07.2014 at 08:45

Metal is almost universally descirbed as very masculine music.

And it's main market is young teenage males. And the ones that persist with metal after their teenage years are males (and often the more misfits).

Go to any concert and see ratio of male to female - males dominate a lot (especially at DM gigs). Even on this website, only 17% of all 52,462 members are female.

I already said that I'm not taking male domination into account if the genre is inherently masculine or not, I don't care about gender ratio statistics, I'm talking about something more subjective. If you want I can make a list comparing musical traits I consider feminine with those I consider masculine, in fact I've been planning on writing a full analysis on feminity/masculinity and other traits in various metal, so give me some time.

Hilarious as I was talking specifically about who listens to the music.

We're not talking about what metal sounds like.

We're discussing why "metalheads apparently like chunkier chicks," the root cause of which is who does metal music appeal to.

So that was a hilarious misunderstanding because I went off on a tangent. Well this entire thread has been nothing except one big tangent as the OP's topic is simply the worst.

I thought the topic i brought up was meaningful (not my input, just the replys)... so something came out of it

I just read whole part about band promoting beauties and the likes you guys talked about ... and uh, I don't really know what to think of it really. You all have very good points.
At the same time, it's always subject to one's perspective on things. Personally, I couldn't care less if a band has a Goat playing on drums or a
fat troll with 1 eye and 3 arms playing the bass... I also couldn't care less if it has a fat, slim, tall, small or w/e chick in it... As a matter of fact they
could all be painted in white, faceless and sex-less. All I care about when it comes to a band are the following questions.

1. What Style Do They Play
2. Where Can I Listen To Their Music
3. Does It Sound Good
4. Is It Worth More Than One Spin
5. How Is The Production and Who's The Label
6. Is Their Live Show Interesting In Terms of Performance
7. Is It Worth My Money and If Yes, How Much Does It Cost

If they murdered 1000 virgins before being in the band, bathe in blood every night, like to cuddle each others after live shows, if their names all start with the same
Vowels or if they suck random people's dicks when they're in private. Seriously can we stop giving a fuck about all of this ? first of all, it's all very disgusting and second of all
only the music matters, because once they'll be dead, only it will remain !

Tada!

Oh and P.S. for the actual topic, How did you actually come up with this ? Can I see stats ? And like Sham69 would say... *ANYWAYS ! Who Gives A Damn?*

Written by deadone on 02.07.2014 at 07:56

Written by Guib on 01.07.2014 at 10:31

...or if they suck random people's dicks when they're in private.....


.....only the music matters, because once they'll be dead, only it will remain !

That and the stories grandfathers will share with their grandkids:

"I remember when I was but a wee lad of a mere 27 years and <insert metal musician> gave me a random blow job and I jizzed on her/his/its face."

HAHAHAHAHAHA ! Gosh, I almost regret that one now.

I think its like anything else, the fanbase has a bit of everything and anything. For the larger fans you see, there's also very skinny fans. For every less-than-attractive girl, there's one that makes my jaw drop.

For comparative sake, more pop or rap fans may seem like ultra-thin pretty girls/guys, but the fanbase is also a much larger one, since its a very vogue genre that's aimed toward the youth, and is stripped down to the point of instant accessibility. If you can cope with the irritants of a pop artist, you're pretty much set. But since the fanbase is so large, every perfect 10 will be countered by at least 4 or 5 girls/guys that wouldn't even crack a 2, and that's not even factoring in weight.

Generalities aside, I think a lot of the relationships you see are based off of a lot more mutual respect, love, or, at the very least, philosophical compatibility than just a metalhead opting to go after chicks with some extra pounds.

Now, if you want to see a strange display, check out juggalos in impoverished areas. My current location is one such area. Removing those whom come into the music store I work at alone, there's a higher percentile of juggalo couples that involve a skinny gent and a fabulously rotund female. Might just be more commonplace here based around what's available in the juggalo family or whatthefuckever, but I highly doubt its true everywhere. Hell, I've met some pretty attractive juggalos.

^ Reminds of this episode of Workaholics.

Yeah, so, disregarding all the dramatic bullshit above....

I love thick women, most of the ones I've dated throughout my life have been plus size. Dunno, there's something about it that's just more attractive to me, it's like they have more developed bodies or something. Or maybe just a higher BMI. Could be both. Anyway, that "more to love" saying definitely holds true as well. If she aint 280, she aint a lady!

280? At that point it's almost like a fetish rather than a preference.

The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin', that's what I said
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand, or so I have read

I personally can't find attractive something that looks unhealthy. It goes for weight, the excess or lack of it, posture, extreme body modifications, etc, in both men and women.

Written by deadone on 28.07.2014 at 04:32

Written by Auntie Sahar on 28.07.2014 at 01:26

If she aint 280, she aint a lady!

So you like obese ones?

It's just a silly expression meant to indicate that you like thick, curvy women, my friends and I back in high school would say it all the time

Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.07.2014 at 04:34

280? At that point it's almost like a fetish rather than a preference.

You guys take me way too seriously

There wasn't really any indication you were joking based on everything else in your comment. And I've seen you make that statement before both on Metal Storm and on Facebook, so I figured it was a legitimate outlook.

On a side note, I don't have a problem with a love of curvy women. I once dated a girl for almost a year who fit very well into a high-numbered D-cup and sported a breathtaking 40" derriere - what I jokingly referred to as the whale tail much to her... dismay, we'll call it.

But I do have an issue with fetishizing obesity. To me it just seems unhealthy. Although that might be hypocritical given some of my own personal fetishes and how they can likely be considered to be promoting unhealthy images/standards/whatever.