Maybe it's just my struggle with creating music that I actually like, but I also haven't really been able to get into very many newer black metal bands. That coupled with old BM bands gaining mainstream popularity and selling out, I start to wonder what is the purpose of new or modern black metal?

The second wave of black metal musicians have pretty much set the bar for quality black metal, and the style of those bands varies so much that it's hard to create something that stands out. Even bands from the second wave have evolved and changed their sound significantly, Dimmu is really commercial with alot of clean vocals, Satyricon is very rock oriented with catchy riffs, Mayhem is constantly switching their sound up, Darkthrone sounds like a mix of punk and old 80's heavy metal, and even Carpathian Forest really changed their sound with Fuck You All!!!.

The problem with most new bands is they lack innovation, most of them sound like knock offs of the older bands as it's well known there are a ton of old Darkthrone and Mayhem copy cats. It just seems like their is a lack of creativity, originality, talent and most bands are trying to live up to being like the bands that once were.

Opinions?

I really like the new (?) religious black metal, which features choirs and a religious atmosphere while being completely satanic at the same time. I'm talking about Reverorum ib Malacht, Funeral Mist, and Kriegsmaschine. I really hope more bands will adopt this style of playing.

People talk about how newer bands lack originality, but I don't see any examples listed of that. Have you guys heard current releases from say, last year? I like current bands more tbh, was never much into the second and first wave of bm.

I've tried to check out new bands but end up losing interest rather fast, I keep on having hopes to find at least a few really good ones but haven't had any luck. I would say the "newest" band that I recently added to my cycle of bands is Tsjuder and they've been around for a while, and that's another problem I have is finding anything really good that isn't from Norway and it's not as though I try to pertain to an elitist mindset, it's just that Norway seemed to released the best bm from the 90's into early 2000's.

I'm a little (a lot) drunk right now in the middle of a 16 hour work shift, but you can find these bands on a certain other forum that we're on

Deathspell Omega
Ondskapt
Kriegsmaschine
Reverorum ib Malacht (first demo)
Funeral Mist
Secrets of the Moon
Mortuus
Obscurus Advocam
Watain
Mgla
Lepra
Negative Plane (Celtic Frost worship)
Glorior Belli
Katharsis
Drudkh
Malign
Corpus Christii

I like new black metal more than the older black metal styles

My opinim are that there to many good BM bands from past , Germany, ELLADA ,France, Hungary, Italy, Poland, ... so why we need new band,s I better prefere old once how newer bands , because I dont listening new BM, moust bands will realise one , 2 ,3 demos and splitt up

What pyroleprechaun psoted IMO its not new BM, its well know bands so and i like moust of them

I agree with pyro, there is so much new good stuff. And there also still bands keeping the old sound alive, so I have no reason to complain at all.

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 15:59

I agree with pyro, there is so much new good stuff. And there also still bands keeping the old sound alive, so I have no reason to complain at all.

There to m,any BM bands for one man life, so ... you never can get enouht Immortal and othe rold bands, so no time for new

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2008 at 16:06

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 15:59

I agree with pyro, there is so much new good stuff. And there also still bands keeping the old sound alive, so I have no reason to complain at all.

There to m,any BM bands for one man life, so ... you never can get enouht Immortal and othe rold bands, so no time for new

Immortal bores the shit out of me nowadays. Call it blasphemy, but I don't think I've listened to "Pure Holocaust" for over a year. Perhaps two.

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 16:49

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2008 at 16:06

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 15:59

I agree with pyro, there is so much new good stuff. And there also still bands keeping the old sound alive, so I have no reason to complain at all.

There to m,any BM bands for one man life, so ... you never can get enouht Immortal and othe rold bands, so no time for new

Immortal bores the shit out of me nowadays. Call it blasphemy, but I don't think I've listened to "Pure Holocaust" for over a year. Perhaps two.

But if we take 2007/8 bands non of them who has demo dont make me happy, so ...

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2008 at 16:52

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 16:49

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2008 at 16:06

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 15:59

I agree with pyro, there is so much new good stuff. And there also still bands keeping the old sound alive, so I have no reason to complain at all.

There to m,any BM bands for one man life, so ... you never can get enouht Immortal and othe rold bands, so no time for new

Immortal bores the shit out of me nowadays. Call it blasphemy, but I don't think I've listened to "Pure Holocaust" for over a year. Perhaps two.

But if we take 2007/8 bands non of them who has demo dont make me happy, so ...

You're just too much focusing on the old bands. Take a look at pyro's list, and tell me that you like non of those bands.. listen to Reverorum Ib Malacht's first demo, and tell me that that is not some of the best music you have ever heard...

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 17:02

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2008 at 16:52

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 16:49

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2008 at 16:06

Written by Lucas on 13.06.2008 at 15:59

I agree with pyro, there is so much new good stuff. And there also still bands keeping the old sound alive, so I have no reason to complain at all.

There to m,any BM bands for one man life, so ... you never can get enouht Immortal and othe rold bands, so no time for new

Immortal bores the shit out of me nowadays. Call it blasphemy, but I don't think I've listened to "Pure Holocaust" for over a year. Perhaps two.

But if we take 2007/8 bands non of them who has demo dont make me happy, so ...

You're just too much focusing on the old bands. Take a look at pyro's list, and tell me that you like non of those bands.. listen to Reverorum Ib Malacht's first demo, and tell me that that is not some of the best music you have ever heard...

But I like old bands and from Pyro list I like moust of them

Written by Bitter Dawn on 13.06.2008 at 04:07


The second wave of black metal musicians have pretty much set the bar for quality black metal, and the style of those bands varies so much that it's hard to create something that stands out. Even bands from the second wave have evolved and changed their sound significantly, Dimmu is really commercial with alot of clean vocals, Satyricon is very rock oriented with catchy riffs, Mayhem is constantly switching their sound up, Darkthrone sounds like a mix of punk and old 80's heavy metal, and even Carpathian Forest really changed their sound with Fuck You All!!!.

The problem with most new bands is they lack innovation, most of them sound like knock offs of the older bands as it's well known there are a ton of old Darkthrone and Mayhem copy cats. It just seems like their is a lack of creativity, originality, talent and most bands are trying to live up to being like the bands that once were.

Opinions?

Lack of creativity?? I think that the creativity is abundant.. you said it yourself, the old bands are changing their sound in agreement with their music thoughts.. Darkthrone added punk and old heavy, we all see Mayhem electro-influenced album, Satyricon has its own style, different from the others BM bands, always improoving.
Well.. yes, there are tons of copy cats, but theres a lot of originallity in new black metal bands. Samael, Borknagar, Graveworm, Guahaihoque, Limbonic Art.. even Marduk and Behemoth mix the black metal with another style.. and thats originallity.
The only way to produce the true and pure BM is to imitate these legendary bands... because their sound was the only REAL black metal that has ever existed, and these days are never coming back .

...I dont know if you are lamenting the fact that the only way to create original music is mixing styles. If that was what you mean, than i'm sorry for explain something that u already knew

i think the biggest issue is just like any other genre, there are soooooo many bands aping the innovators it becomes more difficult to find good new bands. the internet helps... but can also be a hindrance as well.

pyro has a list with at least four bands i am familiar with and enjoy. (sorry, have neither the time nor inclination to check out every new act... i can relate to an extent with K7's "stick with what i know is good" approach. i'm always open to new stuff, but i'll let folks like Lucas point me in the direction of the creme of the crop. i have 500+ cd's as it is, and still really enjoy that which i do have.)

just look at the evolution of some of the 2nd wave Norgwegian acts:

Darkthrone - grim, 'simplistic' blackmetal moved towards punk and classic 80s
Emperor - grew more and more symphonic and musically articulate
Mayhem - constantly shifting styles and incorporating new elements or approaches
Ulver - left the genre entirely for electronic
Satyricon - towards almost an arena metal sound, imo
Dimmu Borgir - continued to get more 'listener friendly' symphonic in their approach
Burzum - like Ulver, left the genre behind for a keyboard.
Immortal - from CF worship to hyperspeed to incorporating more traditional metal elements.
Enslaved - incorporating more and more prog elements and slowed down their sound.
Arcturus - evolved into a wacky avante-garde "Space Pirates" troupe

just those bands above all started out in some vaguely common center point and shot out each in a different direction. their willingness to try something different has covered so much musical ground that it makes it much harder for new bands to try anything innovative without comparisons being drawn to one of those acts.

ultimately i think the biggest difference between "then" and "now" is that there simply were not as many bands and time has weeded out the weak. for the most part the mediocre have been forgotten. the fact that the genre was relatively new in the early 90's also gave those bands a lot more room to experiment and innovate as well to cement their legacy.

Now as the "golden child" of extreme metal, the fact is you cannot open a fairly common mag like Terrorizer without tons of ads and reviews shoving mediocrity in your face.

There is wrong wrong wrong to relate the evolution of a genre directly with the evolution of its classic bands. Of course it's important to see what bands like Mayhem or Darkthrone are dooing now and compare it to the roots of those bands, but the only factor that tells you important stuff about the evolution of black metal is to see the new bands that had been popping up since the 00s... of course there had never been so much shit in black metal as now (every german kid with socialization problems and an instrument seems to have his own depressive black metal band by now), but most of the black metal bands I listen to by now had been created in the last decade. There's something very weird about the so-called kvlt black metal audiences, that rate the scene by the number of bad ones instead of the good ones... that's something extremely hard for me to understand.

Pyro has a perfect list for you as listed above. These are all bands I'm familiar with and ones I would recommend to other black metal fans.

There IS good stuff coming out of other countries, maybe you just need time to let it grow on you. I would also recommend you Gorath's "Misotheism". Awesome album!

Written by Dangerboner on 13.06.2008 at 10:53

Negative Plane (Celtic Frost worship)

you may be drunk, but this is still blasphemy!!

I must agree that all the new bands lack innovation, as they rehash all of the same lyrical themes such as satan, death, and despair. For once, I'd like to see a black metal band sing about blueberry pancakes. That would be really pushing the envelope.

There are several big things that have just entered the BM scene, whether they are considered as good or bad things. Such as Industrial BM, Christian BM(or White Metal) & the increasing involvment of women in BM. And there are still many aspects that have yet to be integrated with Black Metal, and there is just as much purpose in BM as there is in any other genre.

Written by Dangerboner on 13.06.2008 at 10:53

I'm a little (a lot) drunk right now in the middle of a 16 hour work shift, but you can find these bands on a certain other forum that we're on

Deathspell Omega
Ondskapt
Kriegsmaschine
Reverorum ib Malacht (first demo)
Funeral Mist
Secrets of the Moon
Mortuus
Obscurus Advocam
Watain
Mgla
Lepra
Negative Plane (Celtic Frost worship)
Glorior Belli
Katharsis
Drudkh
Malign
Corpus Christii

I like new black metal more than the older black metal styles

Some of those look familiar, and some I've heard. I do like Drudkh but don't really listen to them that much anymore because it kind of sounds like they're just using the same riffs over and over for reach album, but inverting them slightly or rearanging the order - talented guys none the less.
I'm listening to Katharsis right now and it's pretty good. Glorior Belli is probably the best french bm I've heard and I have one of their albums.

I've actually been listening to some Immortal for the last couple weeks, a bit of everything but mostly their last two albums. I didn't really care for the band in general all that much but it's been growing on me.

like others pointed out, there's nothing wrong with the new bands, in fact they are much better than the norwegian second wave. the problem is, that now there are thousands of black metal bands and you have to do some searching until you find good stuff. but the good-bad band ratio is the same as it was in the early days imo.

people like when things land in their lap, so it's easier to whine about the lack of originality then to find a couple of good bands. there are good bands that started just a few years ago. the orthodox scene is amazingly fresh and original, YOU JUST HAVE T TRY IT. there are also other good bands beside these, take Chaos Moon from the US or entire slavic scene.

Written by Damnated on 14.06.2008 at 12:39

like others pointed out, there's nothing wrong with the new bands, in fact they are much better than the norwegian second wave. the problem is, that now there are thousands of black metal bands and you have to do some searching until you find good stuff. but the good-bad band ratio is the same as it was in the early days imo.

people like when things land in their lap, so it's easier to whine about the lack of originality then to find a couple of good bands. there are good bands that started just a few years ago. the orthodox scene is amazingly fresh and original, YOU JUST HAVE T TRY IT. there are also other good bands beside these, take Chaos Moon from the US or entire slavic scene.

what did you mean by Norvegian secend wawe?

The second wave of black metal was provided predominantly by Norwegians.

Watch Metal: A Headbanger's Journey or something.

Written by Bad English on 14.06.2008 at 12:50

what did you mean by Norvegian secend wawe?

i said that new black metal bands are better than the ones that belonged to the second wave.

Written by Damnated on 14.06.2008 at 14:52

Written by Bad English on 14.06.2008 at 12:50

what did you mean by Norvegian secend wawe?

i said that new black metal bands are better than the ones that belonged to the second wave.

But what bands you mean are secend wave?

Written by Bad English on 14.06.2008 at 15:00

But what bands you mean are secend wave?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_metal#The_Second_Wave

Written by Damnated on 14.06.2008 at 15:12

Written by Bad English on 14.06.2008 at 15:00

But what bands you mean are secend wave?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_metal#The_Second_Wave

Some points to note:

"The 'Second Wave' of black metal can be said to owe a debt to the Italian band Death SS, which mixed horror themes with thrash metal in the late 70s and early 80s...

...Besides the influence of Norwegian bands, a black metal scene in Sweden began to grow with the popularity of bands such as Marduk and Dissection in the early 1990s. Finnish bands like Beherit and Impaled Nazarene also emerged. Additionally, Euronymous of Mayhem also mentioned Sodom and Destruction as underestimated influences and 'masterpieces of black stinking metal'."
~ Lordmessiah's Supremacy

Written by Nox Lux on 14.06.2008 at 15:48

Some points to note:

"The 'Second Wave' of black metal can be said to owe a debt to the Italian band Death SS, which mixed horror themes with thrash metal in the late 70s and early 80s...

...Besides the influence of Norwegian bands, a black metal scene in Sweden began to grow with the popularity of bands such as Marduk and Dissection in the early 1990s. Finnish bands like Beherit and Impaled Nazarene also emerged. Additionally, Euronymous of Mayhem also mentioned Sodom and Destruction as underestimated influences and 'masterpieces of black stinking metal'."
~ Lordmessiah's Supremacy

thankyou for pointing out some well known facts

Written by Damnated on 14.06.2008 at 16:14

Written by Nox Lux on 14.06.2008 at 15:48

Some points to note:

"The 'Second Wave' of black metal can be said to owe a debt to the Italian band Death SS, which mixed horror themes with thrash metal in the late 70s and early 80s...

...Besides the influence of Norwegian bands, a black metal scene in Sweden began to grow with the popularity of bands such as Marduk and Dissection in the early 1990s. Finnish bands like Beherit and Impaled Nazarene also emerged. Additionally, Euronymous of Mayhem also mentioned Sodom and Destruction as underestimated influences and 'masterpieces of black stinking metal'."
~ Lordmessiah's Supremacy

thankyou for pointing out some well known facts

Thank you for continuing your longstanding tradition of acting pissy towards me.

The quoted area of my post that lies below was not stated in your wikipedia link, and I felt it would be of interest.

"Additionally, Euronymous of Mayhem also mentioned Sodom and Destruction as underestimated influences and 'masterpieces of black stinking metal'."

Remember that what may be obvious to you is not necessarily obvious to others. It's a relevant and interesting contribution for those that have not yet looked up black metal to any great extent. It's the initial point of a message board.

I don't comment on your posts, don't comment on mine - unless they are inaccurate. I shouldn't have to tell you this. If you have any further grievances with what I consider to be relevant in context with questions that have been posted, I suggest you PM a staff member and request for the offending post to be deleted.



PS; I just laughed out loud at the quote in your signature. Very funny.

Written by Nox Lux on 14.06.2008 at 16:28

Thank you for continuing your longstanding tradition of acting pissy towards me.

don't feel special, it's nothing personal

i was just a bit troubled to see, that some don't have an idea what does the second wave mean and represent. i thought a forum whore like K7 would know something ordinary as this. guess i was wrong.