The Purpose Of Creating New Black Metal

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Original post

Posted by Bitter Dawn, 13.06.2008 - 04:07

Maybe it's just my struggle with creating music that I actually like, but I also haven't really been able to get into very many newer black metal bands. That coupled with old BM bands gaining mainstream popularity and selling out, I start to wonder what is the purpose of new or modern black metal?

The second wave of black metal musicians have pretty much set the bar for quality black metal, and the style of those bands varies so much that it's hard to create something that stands out. Even bands from the second wave have evolved and changed their sound significantly, Dimmu is really commercial with alot of clean vocals, Satyricon is very rock oriented with catchy riffs, Mayhem is constantly switching their sound up, Darkthrone sounds like a mix of punk and old 80's heavy metal, and even Carpathian Forest really changed their sound with Fuck You All!!!.

The problem with most new bands is they lack innovation, most of them sound like knock offs of the older bands as it's well known there are a ton of old Darkthrone and Mayhem copy cats. It just seems like their is a lack of creativity, originality, talent and most bands are trying to live up to being like the bands that once were.

Opinions?

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Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:03 Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071 Written by IncoherentScream on 26.01.2012 at 17:01 But when you say melodeath I think instantly of early In Flames or Dark Tranquility. those two have nothing to do with melodic death metal at all. DT only very early on in their career. what they play/played is speeded up Iron Maiden with growls. ---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 Loading...
IncoherentScream Posts: 106	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:05 IncoherentScream Posts: 106 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.01.2012 at 17:03 Written by IncoherentScream on 26.01.2012 at 17:01 But when you say melodeath I think instantly of early In Flames or Dark Tranquility. those two have nothing to do with melodic death metal at all. DT only very early on in their career. what they play/played is speeded up Iron Maiden with growls. Hence why I said early. We seem to agree on early DT but if you don't think that "The Jester Race" isn't a perfect example of melodeath than we are officially located on different planets and will never see eye to eye on this one. Loading...
Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:06 Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071 Written by IncoherentScream on 26.01.2012 at 17:05 but if you don't think that "The Jester Race" isn't a perfect example of melodeath than we are officially located on different planets and will never see eye to eye on this one. we'll never agree on this one I don't hear any death metal in there at all. ---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 Loading...
IncoherentScream Posts: 106	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:07 IncoherentScream Posts: 106 Written by X-Ray Rod on 26.01.2012 at 17:03 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.01.2012 at 16:59 The Devil's Blood (that is of cpourse Selim and his sister Farida) are extremely serious about their lyrical content and all things surrounding their music. Pure evil through catchy psichedelia, nice. Maybe it's the random blood on random titties that makes me forget we are talking about satanic lyrics and stuff. Ghost pulls the same shtick...but somehow I really doubt they are taking it seriously when their official press release says shit like; "...Ghost is trying to trick the world into thinking the Armageddon is a good thing to prepare the way for their Dark Lord." Hmmmm....a lofty goal indeed if they aren't winking in irony under those dark hoods and skull mask. Loading...
IncoherentScream Posts: 106	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:10 IncoherentScream Posts: 106 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.01.2012 at 17:06 Written by IncoherentScream on 26.01.2012 at 17:05 but if you don't think that "The Jester Race" isn't a perfect example of melodeath than we are officially located on different planets and will never see eye to eye on this one. we'll never agree on this one I don't hear any death metal in there at all. Then agree to disagree we shall. Either way both Watain and Dissection get my head banging and my fist pumping so whether it's agreed upon whether they are Black or Death or Blackened Death or Blackened Melodeath or whatever they still rock my socks off.... Loading...
X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18276	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:10 X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18276 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.01.2012 at 17:06 Written by IncoherentScream on 26.01.2012 at 17:05 but if you don't think that "The Jester Race" isn't a perfect example of melodeath than we are officially located on different planets and will never see eye to eye on this one. we'll never agree on this one I don't hear any death metal in there at all. I agree with you on the death thing... But I don't see Iron Maiden either. Yeah... The gothemburg name still works better than nothing. ---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Like you could kiss my ass Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49 Rod, let me love you. Loading...
Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:12 Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071 Written by X-Ray Rod on 26.01.2012 at 17:10 I agree with you on the death thing... But I don't see Iron Maiden either. Yeah... The gothemburg name still works better than nothing. Slow it down and you will certainly hear the Iron Maiden melodies and riffs we actually did it back in the day when that early In Flames stuff was released. ---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 Loading...
IncoherentScream Posts: 106	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:13 IncoherentScream Posts: 106 Written by X-Ray Rod on 26.01.2012 at 17:10 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.01.2012 at 17:06 Written by IncoherentScream on 26.01.2012 at 17:05 but if you don't think that "The Jester Race" isn't a perfect example of melodeath than we are officially located on different planets and will never see eye to eye on this one. we'll never agree on this one I don't hear any death metal in there at all. I agree with you on the death thing... But I don't see Iron Maiden either. Yeah... The gothemburg name still works better than nothing. I guess from my perspective Gothenburg was always a movement within the genre of Death Metal, and melodeath in general. Perhaps I was mistaken.... Loading...
IncoherentScream Posts: 106	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:16 IncoherentScream Posts: 106 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.01.2012 at 17:12 Written by X-Ray Rod on 26.01.2012 at 17:10 I agree with you on the death thing... But I don't see Iron Maiden either. Yeah... The gothemburg name still works better than nothing. Slow it down and you will certainly hear the Iron Maiden melodies and riffs we actually did it back in the day when that early In Flames stuff was released. Ok listening to "Artifacts of the Black Rain" now and see your point on the Maiden thing. The harmonizing of the leads etc.... Never would have thought to look at it that way though. Not sure why considering how much I listen to Maiden. Weird. Loading...
Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:18 Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071 Written by IncoherentScream on 26.01.2012 at 17:16 Ok listening to "Artifacts of the Black Rain" now and see your point on the Maiden thing. The harmonizing of the leads etc.... Never would have thought to look at it that way though. Not sure why considering how much I listen to Maiden. Weird. Another one sees the light SOmehow a lot of people miss the Iron Maiden thing in their sound. Probably due to the vocals. ---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 Loading...
X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18276	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:19 X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18276 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.01.2012 at 17:18 Probably due to the vocals. Or the fact that some people don't listen to Iron Maiden, like me. ---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Like you could kiss my ass Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49 Rod, let me love you. Loading...
Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 17:20 Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071 Written by X-Ray Rod on 26.01.2012 at 17:19 Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.01.2012 at 17:18 Probably due to the vocals. Or the fact that some people don't listen to Iron Maiden, like me. That helps indeed, ---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 Loading...
Milena gloom cookie Staff Posts: 4603	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 22:58 Milena gloom cookie Staff Posts: 4603 Don't a lot lot lot of bands have an Iron Maiden thing going on? I mean, if genre spans are THAT narrow, I really don't see the point of having genres at all. ---- 7.0 means the album is good Loading...
!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted	Permalink 26.01.2012 - 23:00 !J.O.O.E.! Account deleted Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 22:58 Don't a lot lot lot of bands have an Iron Maiden thing going on? I mean, if genre spans are THAT narrow, I really don't see the point of having genres at all. Indeed, a few harmonious leads here and there do not a melodeath band make ;] I could cherry pick techniques from a variety of genres and call bands ridiculous styles by that way of thinking. Loading...
IncoherentScream Posts: 106	Permalink 27.01.2012 - 03:34 IncoherentScream Posts: 106 Written by Guest on 26.01.2012 at 23:00 Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 22:58 Don't a lot lot lot of bands have an Iron Maiden thing going on? I mean, if genre spans are THAT narrow, I really don't see the point of having genres at all. Indeed, a few harmonious leads here and there do not a melodeath band make ;] I could cherry pick techniques from a variety of genres and call bands ridiculous styles by that way of thinking. Yeah except that In Flames didn't harmonize the leads here and there...they did it frigging constantly. It was sort of vogue at the time as far as I can recall for most Metal bands, especially those out of Sweden, to follow this style. So much so that I can also remember reading an interview with Mikael Akerfeldt where he stated how the progression of Opeth was sort of in backlash to the standardization of the genre at the time. Or at least that's what it was in his eyes. Again...I still love early In Flames. Like really, really love it. I guess I've never thought too much on what made melodeath, well, melodeath. But now that we are splicing hairs I guess I will just continue on with my own definition of the genre, which is anything that is hard enough to headbang to but is more concerned with melody will for now on be melodeath to me. Don't ruin my little world...please.... Loading...
!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted	Permalink 27.01.2012 - 13:59 !J.O.O.E.! Account deleted Written by IncoherentScream on 27.01.2012 at 03:34 Yeah except that In Flames didn't harmonize the leads here and there...they did it frigging constantly. It was sort of vogue at the time as far as I can recall for most Metal bands, especially those out of Sweden, to follow this style. So much so that I can also remember reading an interview with Mikael Akerfeldt where he stated how the progression of Opeth was sort of in backlash to the standardization of the genre at the time. Or at least that's what it was in his eyes. Again...I still love early In Flames. Like really, really love it. I guess I've never thought too much on what made melodeath, well, melodeath. But now that we are splicing hairs I guess I will just continue on with my own definition of the genre, which is anything that is hard enough to headbang to but is more concerned with melody will for now on be melodeath to me. Don't ruin my little world...please.... I was referring to Watain here, not actual melodeath bands. The odd harmony in a band doesn't point it toward a certain genre, such as melodeath who specialised in such techniques. Loading...
IncoherentScream Posts: 106	Permalink 28.01.2012 - 02:09 IncoherentScream Posts: 106 Written by Guest on 27.01.2012 at 13:59 Written by IncoherentScream on 27.01.2012 at 03:34 Yeah except that In Flames didn't harmonize the leads here and there...they did it frigging constantly. It was sort of vogue at the time as far as I can recall for most Metal bands, especially those out of Sweden, to follow this style. So much so that I can also remember reading an interview with Mikael Akerfeldt where he stated how the progression of Opeth was sort of in backlash to the standardization of the genre at the time. Or at least that's what it was in his eyes. Again...I still love early In Flames. Like really, really love it. I guess I've never thought too much on what made melodeath, well, melodeath. But now that we are splicing hairs I guess I will just continue on with my own definition of the genre, which is anything that is hard enough to headbang to but is more concerned with melody will for now on be melodeath to me. Don't ruin my little world...please.... I was referring to Watain here, not actual melodeath bands. The odd harmony in a band doesn't point it toward a certain genre, such as melodeath who specialised in such techniques. Oh...shit. I read that one wrong... But yeah that was my point with Watain as well, as per the original discussion we were in. I guess I got confused and thought everyone was talking about In Flames and Maiden at this point. Little did I know you were backing up one of my favorite bands...the irony!! Loading...
Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322	Permalink 08.07.2012 - 04:05 Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 Well, I won't read the whole comments, but I'll reply to the first one. You say that The second wave of black metal musicians have pretty much set the bar for quality black metal? Check out The Ruins Of Beverast, Deathspell Omega and Blut Aus Nord and rethink of what you said. ---- In that case, man is only air as well. Loading...
BitterCOld The Ancient One Admin Posts: 15250	Permalink 08.07.2012 - 05:30 BitterCOld The Ancient One Admin Posts: 15250 Written by Oaken on 08.07.2012 at 04:05 Well, I won't read the whole comments, but I'll reply to the first one. You say that The second wave of black metal musicians have pretty much set the bar for quality black metal? Check out The Ruins Of Beverast, Deathspell Omega and Blut Aus Nord and rethink of what you said. Bitter Dawn was creating black metal long before you found metal, hoss. he's heard of 'em. ---- get the fuck off my lawn. Beer Bug Virus Spotify Playlist crafted by Nikarg and I. Feel free to tune in and add some pertinent metal tunes! Loading...
Boxcar Willy yr a kook Posts: 8983	Permalink 08.07.2012 - 06:34 Boxcar Willy yr a kook Posts: 8983 Written by BitterCOld on 08.07.2012 at 05:30 Written by Oaken on 08.07.2012 at 04:05 Well, I won't read the whole comments, but I'll reply to the first one. You say that The second wave of black metal musicians have pretty much set the bar for quality black metal? Check out The Ruins Of Beverast, Deathspell Omega and Blut Aus Nord and rethink of what you said. Bitter Dawn was creating black metal long before you found metal, hoss. he's heard of 'em. And some decent BM at that. ---- 14:22 - Marcel Hubregtse I do your mum *DESTROY DRUM TRIGGERS* Loading...
Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322	Permalink 08.07.2012 - 15:43 Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 Written by BitterCOld on 08.07.2012 at 05:30 Written by Oaken on 08.07.2012 at 04:05 Well, I won't read the whole comments, but I'll reply to the first one. You say that The second wave of black metal musicians have pretty much set the bar for quality black metal? Check out The Ruins Of Beverast, Deathspell Omega and Blut Aus Nord and rethink of what you said. Bitter Dawn was creating black metal long before you found metal, hoss. he's heard of 'em. I wasn't aware of that user. ---- In that case, man is only air as well. Loading...
helofloki Posts: 184	Permalink 09.07.2012 - 17:42 helofloki Posts: 184 This is a difficult question, considering that Black Metal has been a certain sound for so long. However, I think bands like Deathspell Omega show there's still room for innovation. There's a knife's balance edge between being influenced by Mayhem or Darkthrone or Emperor and just copying them. True, there are a lot of bad rip offs, but that happens. Even when Black Metal started, though it was an exciting new sound, there were only a handful of bands that were really awesome. If you love black metal and that's the kind of music you want to make, then it's worth trying to start a band. Even if it follows close to the traditional sound, if the music is approached professionally with a strong musicianship, I believe that will shine through. ---- http://thecephalogue.blogspot.com/ Loading...
Aristarchos Posts: 814	Permalink 14.07.2012 - 12:06 Aristarchos Posts: 814 I think black metal is one of few metal genres that still is developing in a (for me) interesting way. For example I don't know how long the blackgaze thing have been around or who started it, but I think at least some of the newer bands belonging to the genre sounds interesting. Loading...
Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306	Permalink 14.07.2012 - 16:54 Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 Written by Aristarchos on 14.07.2012 at 12:06 For example I don't know how long the blackgaze thing have been around or who started it, but I think at least some of the newer bands belonging to the genre sounds interesting. I think it goes back to about 2008/2009 but wasn't really getting any focus until late 2010. In any case, I feel like the genre itself is already dying (blackgaze, that is; not black metal). There was only so much room for expansion and about five albums managed to capture everything good about it. The rest are all basically the equivalent to thrash in the '90s from the big four. ---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something." Loading...
!J.O.O.E.! Account deleted	Permalink 14.07.2012 - 17:13 !J.O.O.E.! Account deleted Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.07.2012 at 16:54 I think it goes back to about 2008/2009 but wasn't really getting any focus until late 2010. In any case, I feel like the genre itself is already dying (blackgaze, that is; not black metal). There was only so much room for expansion and about five albums managed to capture everything good about it. The rest are all basically the equivalent to thrash in the '90s from the big four. I'd say 2005 at least, with Alcest's Le Secret. Loading...
Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306	Permalink 14.07.2012 - 17:29 Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 No matter how many times I'm reminded of that album, I always assume his first release was the Lune. :/ ---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something." Loading...
X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18276	Permalink 14.07.2012 - 20:45 X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18276 Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.07.2012 at 17:29 No matter how many times I'm reminded of that album, I always assume his first release was the Lune. :/ So you missed both Le Secret and the debut Souvenirs d'Un Autre Monde... Oh well, I have no right to make fun of anyone's memory. ---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Like you could kiss my ass Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49 Rod, let me love you. Loading...
Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071	Permalink 14.07.2012 - 21:47 Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071 Written by X-Ray Rod on 14.07.2012 at 20:45 Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.07.2012 at 17:29 No matter how many times I'm reminded of that album, I always assume his first release was the Lune. :/ So you missed both Le Secret and the debut Souvenirs d'Un Autre Monde... Oh well, I have no right to make fun of anyone's memory. and no he did not miss anything by not hearing those ---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 Loading...
BitterCOld The Ancient One Admin Posts: 15250	Permalink 14.07.2012 - 22:22 BitterCOld The Ancient One Admin Posts: 15250 I wouldn't call Souvenirs a black metal album at all. ---- get the fuck off my lawn. Beer Bug Virus Spotify Playlist crafted by Nikarg and I. Feel free to tune in and add some pertinent metal tunes! Loading...
X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18276	Permalink 14.07.2012 - 22:38 X-Ray Rod Skandino Staff Posts: 18276 Written by BitterCOld on 14.07.2012 at 22:22 I wouldn't call Souvenirs a black metal album at all. Well, no one is implying that either. It was just about Troy forgetting that there were more releases before Écailles De Lune. ---- Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29 Like you could kiss my ass Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49 Rod, let me love you. Loading...