Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 10.10.2011 at 21:24
What self defence?

Written by BitterCOld on 10.10.2011 at 21:36
braindead morons

I hope you guys don't actually think I support the self-defense story. >>

Written by Troy Killjoy on 11.10.2011 at 05:05

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 10.10.2011 at 21:24
What self defence?

Written by BitterCOld on 10.10.2011 at 21:36
braindead morons

I hope you guys don't actually think I support the self-defense story. >>

Then why mention it?

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.10.2011 at 07:05
Then why mention it?

Quote:
Or self-defense tactics, whatever.

That sarcasm was being laid on thicker than molasses.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 11.10.2011 at 05:05


I hope you guys don't actually think I support the self-defense story. >>

you? no.

but there are plenty of people who have spouted off here agreeing with everything that dude types... even when it runs counter to what that dude typed a couple years prior.

Written by BitterCOld on 11.10.2011 at 08:46
but there are plenty of people who have spouted off here agreeing with everything that dude types... even when it runs counter to what that dude typed a couple years prior.

Very true.

Varg's kind of like that bitch of an ex-wife you still have feelings for. A master manipulator and a cunning strategist, but you did marry her for a reason: because she had a smoking hot body in high school only you got carried away on prom night and 20 years later you've got three kids and alimony.

I'm not really sure what kind of analogy that is but I'm sure it makes sense to someone.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 10.10.2011 at 12:25


Had Varg not set fire to churches and killed Euronymous no-one would have given sa shit about his music at all. He knew that and that's why he did what he diid, if you ask me.

Well, this is ridiculous.
It's been about 20 years since those events took place, and to this day you've got bands trying to copy his sound. Had he activated a nuclear bomb in the middle of Oslo, it would have been more-or-less forgotten after 20 years. Shock value wares off in time (the whole corpse-paint, blood on stage thing in black metal is a great example), but powerful music doesn't.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 09.10.2011 at 23:34

Written by Guest on 09.10.2011 at 23:26
He's a hit-and-miss guy in my books. "Det Som En Gang Var" is a wonderful piece of music, the next track "Hvis" is very different, and nowhere as good as its predecessor.

I wasn't referring to his song-by-song abilities. After all, I find his entire back catalog near-flawless. 9s across the board, and I even like his in-jail ambient albums (more than his post-jail albums, that's for sure). I just think, like any musician with a strong following (especially with a cult following), he's received too much praise. At the end of the day he's simply a man responsible for making some awesome (subjective) music, nothing more.

And he's a murderer/arsonist, which obviously plays into the whole cult following. I love the music and I don't hate on the guy for his ideals or crimes, but I don't worship him blindly - or at all for that matter. I just highly respect what he did for the genre.

Yeah, I agree. He's good, his music sounds good, but his cult following praises him more than he deserves. Now that's right.

Written by Daniell on 10.10.2011 at 23:25

Well, I do. I can't support a retard who commits murder for trivial reasons, because that's what Varg did. Even if his music was work of genius, which it wasn't, his crimes cast an irremovable shadow on whatever he does. If someone doesn't realise this, they need to revisit their set of values and realise that something is wrong with it.

Not to mention his homophobic opinions about some races and antionalities, but that's another story.

You're 100% right. Whenever I listen to Burzum, no matter how much I enjoy it, I can't forget I'm listening to a murderer playing!

Written by Daniell on 10.10.2011 at 23:25

Even if his music was work of genius, which it wasn't, his crimes cast an irremovable shadow on whatever he does. If someone doesn't realise this, they need to revisit their set of values and realise that something is wrong with it.

That's one more reason why black metal turns me off. If I find someone is a jerk, that diminishes my respect for everything he does, and I simply can't look at his work unbiased. And I've had a lot of black metal fans come and tell me that the part of the beauty was in the ideology, in the scandals and crimes and how they lived their music. I'm sorry, but if I want to listen to bad people singing about bad things, I'll go for 60's music on acid, because that's bad enough for me, and not murderers and arsonists. Some people like, for an example, Byron's poetry, but I don't, cause there's a lot of hints it comes from his bloody, narcissist and in other ways bad traits.

Written by Slayer666 on 11.10.2011 at 12:17

Well, this is ridiculous.
It's been about 20 years since those events took place, and to this day you've got bands trying to copy his sound. Had he activated a nuclear bomb in the middle of Oslo, it would have been more-or-less forgotten after 20 years. Shock value wares off in time (the whole corpse-paint, blood on stage thing in black metal is a great example), but powerful music doesn't.

Yeah, except people might have not heard of him had he not killed the dude.

Ok so who gives a fuck if he has killed a man and burned a church and is a neo-nazi?
He made some good music ,i will enjoy it until the day i die...

Written by Milena on 12.10.2011 at 01:48

Written by Daniell on 10.10.2011 at 23:25

Even if his music was work of genius, which it wasn't, his crimes cast an irremovable shadow on whatever he does. If someone doesn't realise this, they need to revisit their set of values and realise that something is wrong with it.

That's one more reason why black metal turns me off. If I find someone is a jerk, that diminishes my respect for everything he does, and I simply can't look at his work unbiased. And I've had a lot of black metal fans come and tell me that the part of the beauty was in the ideology, in the scandals and crimes and how they lived their music. I'm sorry, but if I want to listen to bad people singing about bad things, I'll go for 60's music on acid, because that's bad enough for me, and not murderers and arsonists. Some people like, for an example, Byron's poetry, but I don't, cause there's a lot of hints it comes from his bloody, narcissist and in other ways bad traits.

Written by Slayer666 on 11.10.2011 at 12:17

Well, this is ridiculous.
It's been about 20 years since those events took place, and to this day you've got bands trying to copy his sound. Had he activated a nuclear bomb in the middle of Oslo, it would have been more-or-less forgotten after 20 years. Shock value wares off in time (the whole corpse-paint, blood on stage thing in black metal is a great example), but powerful music doesn't.

Yeah, except people might have not heard of him had he not killed the dude.

No problem, you can listen to atmospheric black metal:
http://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=alltime&genre_include=1&genres=Atmospheric+Black+Metal&include_child_genres=t&include=both&limit=none&countries=
Enjoy!

Written by Guest on 12.10.2011 at 02:20

No problem, you can listen to atmospheric black metal:
http://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=alltime&genre_include=1&genres=Atmospheric+Black+Metal&include_child_genres=t&include=both&limit=none&countries=
Enjoy!

The aforementioned isn't my ONLY black metal turnoff for most of times, I can't seem to like the music a lot. When I try folk black stuff like October Falls or Voluspaa... I always find the black metal part of it to be boring somehow. Tried blackgaze but there's not much black there. Will try all those post-rock and post punk+BM blends but I don't think I'll have much luck with them either, though I'll keep my mind open

Written by Milena on 12.10.2011 at 02:36
I'll keep my mind open

Written by Milena on 12.10.2011 at 01:48

I'm sorry, but if I want to listen to bad people singing about bad things, I'll go for 60's music on acid, because that's bad enough for me, and not murderers and arsonists...

I know what you mean but I just feel like being a prick and point out that there aren't any traces of Varg's ideology and history in his lyrics... AT ALL and if there's one I would love to see which song. Same goes to other bands but I can understand why some people just can't put a wall between artists and music like some people do.


One more thing, although this is aimed at nobody in particular: I'm tired of listening to that fucking nonses "oh but its the idiology that also makes a aprt of the music blablabla". That is just dumb in my book. Someone who doesn't know the language couldn't care less of the lyrics of some dude that will scream his lyrics in an almost impossible to understand manner...

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 12.10.2011 at 02:20

Ok so who gives a fuck if he... buried a church...

Wow.
I knew he burned them to the ground, but never knew he also buried a chuch. Must have taken a long time digging a hole big enough

Written by X-Ray Rod on 12.10.2011 at 03:06

One more thing, although this is aimed at nobody in particular: I'm tired of listening to that fucking nonses "oh but its the idiology that also makes a aprt of the music blablabla". That is just dumb in my book.

So you're implying that you are able to listen to music and completely separate the musician from it. And still enjoy it, because the artist doesn't matter as long as his music is good? You're implying that you can listen to music without context? Because you don't give a shit that he killed someone and burned a church? This is as myopic as it gets. What would you say if he burned your house instead of a wooden church? What would you say if he murdered your wife instead of some guy in Norway? Let me tell you in advance, before you say it, that it's NOT a different thing when the crimes apply to you directly. It's the same. The fact that you choose to be conveniently indifferent to crimes that happened far away from you doesn't diminish the weight of those crimes. And they cast the same shadow on the works of the criminal that committed them.

Poor is a society that contains people who compartmentalize crimes according to their own fancy, choosing to ignore some for personal comfort.

Please get of the moral high horse here.
Yes it is different if it affects you directly. because that has much more impact on you. I for opne don't feel anything when it comes to starving people aboroad but do feel when people around me starve because I have a connection with people around me and not with people I do not know.

Written by Daniell on 12.10.2011 at 09:37
So you're implying that you are able to listen to music and completely separate the musician from it. And still enjoy it, because the artist doesn't matter as long as his music is good? You're implying that you can listen to music without context? Because you don't give a shit that he killed someone and burned a church?

What would you say if he burned your house instead of a wooden church? What would you say if he murdered your wife instead of some guy in Norway? Let me tell you in advance, before you say it, that it's NOT a different thing when the crimes apply to you directly. It's the same. The fact that you choose to be conveniently indifferent to crimes that happened far away from you doesn't diminish the weight of those crimes. And they cast the same shadow on the works of the criminal that committed them.

I don't know about the little Doctor, but... Yes. I listen to Burzum and I love the music; I listen to NSBM and I love the music; I listen to Dissection and I love the music. Hell I listen to some '90s rap and I love the music.

Honestly, I don't care if he killed someone and burned down a church. I don't care if it's Hitler making music - if it's enjoyable to my ears I'm going to listen to it.

As for the whole "what if he murdered your friends and family and burned everything down that you know" or whatever...uh ya, I'd be pissed. But that doesn't detract from the quality of his music to me.

Take for instance a friend of my dad's. He's a mixed martial arts fighter, and pretty good one. I can say that about his fighting, that he's good and I enjoy watching him scrap. But the guy's a total dick. He puts other people down and says a lot of really inappropriate things to people to make himself feel good about who he is or whatever. But at the end of the day he's a wicked fighter and I'll go watch him fight because of it. How many people he called a n****r before the fight doesn't exactly relate to how good a fighter he is.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.10.2011 at 09:43

Please get of the moral high horse here.
Yes it is different if it affects you directly. because that has much more impact on you. I for opne don't feel anything when it comes to starving people aboroad but do feel when people around me starve because I have a connection with people around me and not with people I do not know.

I have never mounted a horse and probably never will. I'm not taking moral high ground here. I'm presenting my opinion. It's as valid as anyone else's, Mr. Doctor's included. And yours for that matter.

About people who starve. My neighbour and childhood friend became a missionary priest and went to live in Africa to help people there. He works in a hospital, dealing with tuberculosis patients. He went there, because he wanted to help, and the fact that they lived several thousand miles away from him didn't diminish the impact of their misery on him.

It's no different, unless you make it so.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.10.2011 at 02:37

Written by Milena on 12.10.2011 at 02:36
I'll keep my mind open

Ohhh, no, you won't I do my reading so I know to avoid this

Written by Milena on 12.10.2011 at 11:12
Ohhh, no, you won't I do my reading so I know to avoid this

You refuse to listen based on what you've read online...?

That doesn't sound very open-minded to me.

Written by Daniell on 12.10.2011 at 09:37


So you're implying that you are able to listen to music and completely separate the musician from it. And still enjoy it, because the artist doesn't matter as long as his music is good? You're implying that you can listen to music without context? Because you don't give a shit that he killed someone and burned a church?

Yes, for fuck's sake. Why is that so appalling to you? This reminds me of a certain someone who a while ago was complaining about how he loved black metal, but couldn't listen to it because of satanic lyrics. I find that utterly ridiculous.

Music itself carries no meaning except the one you create for it yourself. When listening to Burzum, you can either picture what Varg intended you to, i.e. that alternative world he creates with his music, or you can picture a church-burning, homicidal sociopath. Or midget porn. Or Smurfs and Unicorns. With literally endless possibilities, why would you want to focus on the worst one?

Varg did all those things, not his music.

Written by Milena on 12.10.2011 at 01:48

Yeah, except people might have not heard of him had he not killed the dude.

Hardly. It probably would have taken longer, but the music would have broken through eventually. Of course, I can't make that claim 100% certainty, but the "no one would have heard of him had it not been for the murder" argument is just as void of absolute proof.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.10.2011 at 02:37

Striborg

Yup, pretty much the ultimate test of open-mindedness.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.10.2011 at 11:15

Written by Milena on 12.10.2011 at 11:12
Ohhh, no, you won't I do my reading so I know to avoid this

You refuse to listen based on what you've read online...?

That doesn't sound very open-minded to me.

If a band is a laughing stock of an online community, I sure as hell don't waste my time on it I don't have the morbid satisfaction of checking out releases like Vampires Everywhere or Illud or Loutallica or The Browning and saying 'yep, they suck and I wasted my time on this'.
If it's from a genre I LIKE, though, I sure do check it out. And mostly waste my time, but still, laughing purposes with black metal, in this case, I wouldn't even have the laughing purpose down too, it would probably sound only a bit worse to me than the black metal I hear when some of my friends play it

Written by Slayer666 on 12.10.2011 at 11:19

Yup, pretty much the ultimate test of open-mindedness.

Or Gallhammer

Written by Milena on 12.10.2011 at 11:22
If a band is a laughing stock of an online community, I sure as hell don't waste my time on it

I'll give you that, but you should know I actually enjoy the music so not everyone thinks Striborg is awful.

But almost everyone does. Like a ridiculous percentage of people with speakers and the internet.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.10.2011 at 11:22
Gallhammer

Striborg > Gallhammer imo

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.10.2011 at 11:22


Or Gallhammer

There is a review coming up for The End, and don't expect it to be generous.

Written by Slayer666 on 12.10.2011 at 11:19

Hardly. It probably would have taken longer, but the music would have broken through eventually. Of course, I can't make that claim 100% certainty, but the "no one would have heard of him had it not been for the murder" argument is just as void of absolute proof.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.10.2011 at 02:37

Striborg

Yup, pretty much the ultimate test of open-mindedness.

I said 'might' And certainly the cult following would have been smaller, as there are a lot of people attracted to the controversy. Had he been a quiet dude... dunno.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.10.2011 at 11:25

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.10.2011 at 11:22
Gallhammer

Striborg > Gallhammer imo

Both are totally worthless crap imo. The only reason Striborg smehow gets any mention is because in some weird way the guys in Sunn O))) are big fans of Sinn Nanna's totally crap, worthless music.

Written by Slayer666 on 12.10.2011 at 11:27

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.10.2011 at 11:22


Or Gallhammer

There is a review coming up for The End, and don't expect it to be generous.

Here is a generous review by yours truly on it

and this one is also generous but on their album from 2007 http://www.lordsofmetal.nl/showreview.php?id=9380&lang=en

Evil Dr. Smith and I don't agree on a lot of things, but we sure as hell agree on Gallhammer. I think I will have a laugh with him concerning the horrendous Japanese band tonight when we're at the Blood Ceremony gig in town

Written by Daniell on 12.10.2011 at 09:54

I have never mounted a horse and probably never will. I'm not taking moral high ground here.

Actually you are by saying the following

Quote:

So you're implying that you are able to listen to music and completely separate the musician from it. And still enjoy it, because the artist doesn't matter as long as his music is good? You're implying that you can listen to music without context? Because you don't give a shit that he killed someone and burned a church? This is as myopic as it gets. What would you say if he burned your house instead of a wooden church? What would you say if he murdered your wife instead of some guy in Norway? Let me tell you in advance, before you say it, that it's NOT a different thing when the crimes apply to you directly. It's the same. The fact that you choose to be conveniently indifferent to crimes that happened far away from you doesn't diminish the weight of those crimes. And they cast the same shadow on the works of the criminal that committed them.

Poor is a society that contains people who compartmentalize crimes according to their own fancy, choosing to ignore some for personal comfort.

Because especially with the bolded words and phrases you are passing a moral judgement on those of us who choose to disregard the actions of the person behind the music.
And I stand by my words there is a difference between what affects one directly and what doesn't.