Punk...a big problem. When people think about "old-school punk" everybody says The Ramones or Sex Pistols, and about them they say Blitzkrieg Bop or Anarchy In the UK. At least for me that's just for fun, stupid music and relaxing, to jump, kick some chairs, chill out with friends in the bar, drink a lot and say "hey ho! Let's Go!" or (like REALLY drunk) "Aaaanaaaarchyyyy...", but somewhere somehow punk started to be against everything; against the government, against your parents, against your girl/boyfriend, against Pink Floyd, against Neil Armstrong, and against punk itself...why?
And then it comes Dookie (Green Day, '92 or '94, I don't remember) and Smash (The Offspring, '94) with the starting of the "Happy Punk", trying to come back to the "just-for-fun" original punk, then came Blink 182, Sum 41, Bowling For Soup, Good Charlotte (?), Simple Plan (?), My Chemical Romance (!?), and a lot of punk-**** bands with some sounds similar to GDay or Offspring, but with love or hate-you lyrics, and now Punk is f*cked, have no idea why...

Written by Kanto on 27.12.2008 at 01:46

Punk...a big problem.

and against punk itself...why?
And then it comes Dookie (Green Day, '92 or '94, I don't remember) and Smash (The Offspring, '94) with the starting of the "Happy Punk", trying to come back to the "just-for-fun" original punk, then came Blink 182, Sum 41, Bowling For Soup, Good Charlotte (?), Simple Plan (?), My Chemical Romance (!?), and a lot of punk-**** bands with some sounds similar to GDay or Offspring, but with love or hate-you lyrics, and now Punk is f*cked, have no idea why...

lol. you just quoted the problem with pretty much every underground form of music that receives any degree of broader interest from the general public. it's certainly not unique to punk.

black metal (circa 2nd wave) was against the "trendy" death metal movement.

later black metal split on itself concerning itself with kvlt bands versus sell-outs.

Manocheese et all in metal in general have made a career out of creating an "against" mentality with their "True vs. False" metal and poseur crap.

on the other side of the street, Rap music has a lot of performers talking about cutting down "whack MC's."

same shit, different genre.

and if you think copycat pop bands are limited strictly to punk, its' not like metal is devoid of 'em either.

Written by Kanto on 27.12.2008 at 01:46

Punk...a big problem. When people think about "old-school punk" everybody says The Ramones or Sex Pistols, and about them they say Blitzkrieg Bop or Anarchy In the UK. At least for me that's just for fun, stupid music and relaxing, to jump, kick some chairs, chill out with friends in the bar, drink a lot and say "hey ho! Let's Go!" or (like REALLY drunk) "Aaaanaaaarchyyyy...", but somewhere somehow punk started to be against everything; against the government, against your parents, against your girl/boyfriend, against Pink Floyd, against Neil Armstrong, and against punk itself...why?
And then it comes Dookie (Green Day, '92 or '94, I don't remember) and Smash (The Offspring, '94) with the starting of the "Happy Punk", trying to come back to the "just-for-fun" original punk, then came Blink 182, Sum 41, Bowling For Soup, Good Charlotte (?), Simple Plan (?), My Chemical Romance (!?), and a lot of punk-**** bands with some sounds similar to GDay or Offspring, but with love or hate-you lyrics, and now Punk is f*cked, have no idea why...

lol dude, you have no f***ing idea. Sorry to be a bit harsh, but you are describing "maisntream" punk. This is like if then, a punk, talking about metal, said how at first it was cool with Black Sabbath and Maiden, then it came thrash with Metallica and Slayer, and now it's fucked because of Nu Metal and Metalcore.

There is more to punk than that. Hardcore punk, Cybergrind, Noise Punk, Post-Punk, Post-Hardcore, Mathcore, Screamo, etc. Hell, the OP said that punk isn't as agressive as metal, and I say to him, Genghis Tron or Converge are MUCH more extreme than most metal that isn't grindcore. The only thing that lacks in punk is progressive music, like Refused. But that somehow goes against the idea of punk being really simple music, which a lot of times, it isn't.

Written by Talvi on 28.12.2008 at 04:33

Written by Kanto on 27.12.2008 at 01:46

Punk...a big problem. When people think about "old-school punk" everybody says The Ramones or Sex Pistols, and about them they say Blitzkrieg Bop or Anarchy In the UK. At least for me that's just for fun, stupid music and relaxing, to jump, kick some chairs, chill out with friends in the bar, drink a lot and say "hey ho! Let's Go!" or (like REALLY drunk) "Aaaanaaaarchyyyy...", but somewhere somehow punk started to be against everything; against the government, against your parents, against your girl/boyfriend, against Pink Floyd, against Neil Armstrong, and against punk itself...why?
And then it comes Dookie (Green Day, '92 or '94, I don't remember) and Smash (The Offspring, '94) with the starting of the "Happy Punk", trying to come back to the "just-for-fun" original punk, then came Blink 182, Sum 41, Bowling For Soup, Good Charlotte (?), Simple Plan (?), My Chemical Romance (!?), and a lot of punk-**** bands with some sounds similar to GDay or Offspring, but with love or hate-you lyrics, and now Punk is f*cked, have no idea why...

lol dude, you have no f***ing idea. Sorry to be a bit harsh, but you are describing "maisntream" punk. This is like if then, a punk, talking about metal, said how at first it was cool with Black Sabbath and Maiden, then it came thrash with Metallica and Slayer, and now it's fucked because of Nu Metal and Metalcore.

There is more to punk than that. Hardcore punk, Cybergrind, Noise Punk, Post-Punk, Post-Hardcore, Mathcore, Screamo, etc. Hell, the OP said that punk isn't as agressive as metal, and I say to him, Genghis Tron or Converge are MUCH more extreme than most metal that isn't grindcore. The only thing that lacks in punk is progressive music, like Refused. But that somehow goes against the idea of punk being really simple music, which a lot of times, it isn't.

Is really hard to describe an entire world in a few lines, but you're totally right, I just talked about the "two most famous old-school bands" and then some of the most mainstream punk music. But if we put the music to one side and we just talk about the idea, the spirit, of being a punk...I think it hadn't changed too much since the Anarchy in the UK or the Sheena is a Punk Rocker era, if I'm wrong please correct me that please.
The problem is exactly what I said, somewhere and somehow being a punk (in SOME cases) were not more "Do it by yourself" and started to be more "I'm f*cking against everything!" (people don't take a shower because showers are made by the goverment? .__.), and that's when some stuff started to go wrong. I'm not against anything with the punk music, because a lot of rock, pop, metal and even hip-hop bands took some punk elements, but some of the punk's nowadays phylosophy is quite strange, specially for some old-school fans...

Written by Kanto on 28.12.2008 at 20:00

Written by Talvi on 28.12.2008 at 04:33

Written by Kanto on 27.12.2008 at 01:46

Punk...a big problem. When people think about "old-school punk" everybody says The Ramones or Sex Pistols, and about them they say Blitzkrieg Bop or Anarchy In the UK. At least for me that's just for fun, stupid music and relaxing, to jump, kick some chairs, chill out with friends in the bar, drink a lot and say "hey ho! Let's Go!" or (like REALLY drunk) "Aaaanaaaarchyyyy...", but somewhere somehow punk started to be against everything; against the government, against your parents, against your girl/boyfriend, against Pink Floyd, against Neil Armstrong, and against punk itself...why?
And then it comes Dookie (Green Day, '92 or '94, I don't remember) and Smash (The Offspring, '94) with the starting of the "Happy Punk", trying to come back to the "just-for-fun" original punk, then came Blink 182, Sum 41, Bowling For Soup, Good Charlotte (?), Simple Plan (?), My Chemical Romance (!?), and a lot of punk-**** bands with some sounds similar to GDay or Offspring, but with love or hate-you lyrics, and now Punk is f*cked, have no idea why...

lol dude, you have no f***ing idea. Sorry to be a bit harsh, but you are describing "maisntream" punk. This is like if then, a punk, talking about metal, said how at first it was cool with Black Sabbath and Maiden, then it came thrash with Metallica and Slayer, and now it's fucked because of Nu Metal and Metalcore.

There is more to punk than that. Hardcore punk, Cybergrind, Noise Punk, Post-Punk, Post-Hardcore, Mathcore, Screamo, etc. Hell, the OP said that punk isn't as agressive as metal, and I say to him, Genghis Tron or Converge are MUCH more extreme than most metal that isn't grindcore. The only thing that lacks in punk is progressive music, like Refused. But that somehow goes against the idea of punk being really simple music, which a lot of times, it isn't.

Is really hard to describe an entire world in a few lines, but you're totally right, I just talked about the "two most famous old-school bands" and then some of the most mainstream punk music. But if we put the music to one side and we just talk about the idea, the spirit, of being a punk...I think it hadn't changed too much since the Anarchy in the UK or the Sheena is a Punk Rocker era, if I'm wrong please correct me that please.
The problem is exactly what I said, somewhere and somehow being a punk (in SOME cases) were not more "Do it by yourself" and started to be more "I'm f*cking against everything!" (people don't take a shower because showers are made by the goverment? .__.), and that's when some stuff started to go wrong. I'm not against anything with the punk music, because a lot of rock, pop, metal and even hip-hop bands took some punk elements, but some of the punk's nowadays phylosophy is quite strange, specially for some old-school fans...

Suddenly you remembered me why I started liking metal.. I didn't have to care about any philosophy whatsoever. The punks I know around here are most of the time people that talk a lot about politics, specially against. So yes, guess they are people that are against the government. I don't know if you are aware about what is happening to Europe's education, but most people that are fighting against it, are punks.

Is it true the shower thing?

Written by Talvi on 28.12.2008 at 04:33

Hell, the OP said that punk isn't as agressive as metal, and I say to him, Genghis Tron or Converge are MUCH more extreme than most metal that isn't grindcore. The only thing

Do you consider Genghis Tron a punk band?

Written by Elio on 29.12.2008 at 00:03

Written by Talvi on 28.12.2008 at 04:33

Hell, the OP said that punk isn't as agressive as metal, and I say to him, Genghis Tron or Converge are MUCH more extreme than most metal that isn't grindcore. The only thing

Do you consider Genghis Tron a punk band?

Technically they are a subgenre of punk. They probably have a bit more metal influence than other similar bands, but they are clearly punk. In sound of course, not in attitude.

Written by Talvi on 28.12.2008 at 22:52

Written by Kanto on 28.12.2008 at 20:00

Is really hard to describe an entire world in a few lines, but you're totally right, I just talked about the "two most famous old-school bands" and then some of the most mainstream punk music. But if we put the music to one side and we just talk about the idea, the spirit, of being a punk...I think it hadn't changed too much since the Anarchy in the UK or the Sheena is a Punk Rocker era, if I'm wrong please correct me that please.
The problem is exactly what I said, somewhere and somehow being a punk (in SOME cases) were not more "Do it by yourself" and started to be more "I'm f*cking against everything!" (people don't take a shower because showers are made by the goverment? .__.), and that's when some stuff started to go wrong. I'm not against anything with the punk music, because a lot of rock, pop, metal and even hip-hop bands took some punk elements, but some of the punk's nowadays phylosophy is quite strange, specially for some old-school fans...

Suddenly you remembered me why I started liking metal.. I didn't have to care about any philosophy whatsoever. The punks I know around here are most of the time people that talk a lot about politics, specially against. So yes, guess they are people that are against the government. I don't know if you are aware about what is happening to Europe's education, but most people that are fighting against it, are punks.

Is it true the shower thing?

Is necessary to be punk to be against something? Ok...I'm against circus using animals, I'm already a punk??? I think I'm getting a little confused with this.

And about the shower, I don't really know...a friend told me that some of her friends are like that, a couple of idiots in my opinion.

Written by Elio on 29.12.2008 at 00:03

Written by Talvi on 28.12.2008 at 04:33

Hell, the OP said that punk isn't as agressive as metal, and I say to him, Genghis Tron or Converge are MUCH more extreme than most metal that isn't grindcore. The only thing

Do you consider Genghis Tron a punk band?

For me Genghis Tron is just a band that place a [really original] grindcore... And Grindcore is a egnre that is heavily influenced by punk so...

But I don't see them as punk unless there're atwo band with the name of Genghis Tron

Written by X-Ray Rod on 02.01.2009 at 15:34

Written by Elio on 29.12.2008 at 00:03

Written by Talvi on 28.12.2008 at 04:33

Hell, the OP said that punk isn't as agressive as metal, and I say to him, Genghis Tron or Converge are MUCH more extreme than most metal that isn't grindcore. The only thing

Do you consider Genghis Tron a punk band?

For me Genghis Tron is just a band that place a [really original] grindcore... And Grindcore is a egnre that is heavily influenced by punk so...

But I don't see them as punk unless there're atwo band with the name of Genghis Tron

We are talking of the same band guy
He probably sees them as punkish cause grind comes from it

Written by Elio on 02.01.2009 at 15:41

We are talking of the same band guy
He probably sees them as punkish cause grind comes from it

Well most of the Grindcore albums have a really punkish feeling at times. A good example would be Napalm Death [especially their debut]

Written by Kanto on 02.01.2009 at 06:27

Written by Talvi on 28.12.2008 at 22:52

Written by Kanto on 28.12.2008 at 20:00

Is really hard to describe an entire world in a few lines, but you're totally right, I just talked about the "two most famous old-school bands" and then some of the most mainstream punk music. But if we put the music to one side and we just talk about the idea, the spirit, of being a punk...I think it hadn't changed too much since the Anarchy in the UK or the Sheena is a Punk Rocker era, if I'm wrong please correct me that please.
The problem is exactly what I said, somewhere and somehow being a punk (in SOME cases) were not more "Do it by yourself" and started to be more "I'm f*cking against everything!" (people don't take a shower because showers are made by the goverment? .__.), and that's when some stuff started to go wrong. I'm not against anything with the punk music, because a lot of rock, pop, metal and even hip-hop bands took some punk elements, but some of the punk's nowadays phylosophy is quite strange, specially for some old-school fans...

Suddenly you remembered me why I started liking metal.. I didn't have to care about any philosophy whatsoever. The punks I know around here are most of the time people that talk a lot about politics, specially against. So yes, guess they are people that are against the government. I don't know if you are aware about what is happening to Europe's education, but most people that are fighting against it, are punks.

Is it true the shower thing?

Is necessary to be punk to be against something? Ok...I'm against circus using animals, I'm already a punk??? I think I'm getting a little confused with this.

And about the shower, I don't really know...a friend told me that some of her friends are like that, a couple of idiots in my opinion.

I never liked classifying people, since it's too ambigous, but most people that really TRY to do something to change the government, and how the things work for the better, are punk. Here we're really fucked because of what they want to do to the educational system, and the people that really CARE about it, are punks. I wouldn't say jsut that they are against X or Y stuff, but that they care and it really matters to them.

And about Genghis Tron... I just think that they are a Grindcore band that has more punk elements than metal ones.

I've been getting into Street Punk as of late.

I love it and I love what it stands for!
Especially The Casualties.

Oh and Celtic Punk is really nice too! It's like 1st cousin to Folk Metal lol.

Ya, not so much.

Thanks for the great insight... this thread is much more complete with you having shared your wisdom.

Written by BitterCOld on 07.02.2009 at 01:00

Thanks for the great insight... this thread is much more complete with you having shared your wisdom.

Don't you just love the people who think metal stands on its own without any help from punk? The way I see it, punk and metal are pretty much one in the same in a lot of ways....I feel an article coming on here...

Anyways, I was browsing the internet and it seems Lars Frederiksen thinks hes Lemmy now:



Yes, that is in fact the same Lars Frederiksen of Rancid and Lars Frederiksen & The Bastards:



Funny that the comparisons come up though, considering the original name Lemmy had in mind for Motorhead was Bastards. Perhaps Lars is a big Motorhead fan then? I think so. The first Lars Frederiksen and The Bastards album has a cover of the song Leaving Here, which Motorhead covered on their first album...its all linked together...

Wouldn't find it shocking. Motorhead was one of those bands that appealed to both punk and metalheads in Britain back in the day.

he's looking pretty worse for wear in that first pic... he looks older than Lemmy.

never was a big Rancid fan, although i love Operation Ivy...

Sound System gonna bring me back up, yah! One thing that i can depend on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9zIFfE8IkU

Written by BitterCOld on 09.06.2009 at 08:31

Wouldn't find it shocking. Motorhead was one of those bands that appealed to both punk and metalheads in Britain back in the day.

he's looking pretty worse for wear in that first pic... he looks older than Lemmy.

never was a big Rancid fan, although i love Operation Ivy...

Sound System gonna bring me back up, yah! One thing that i can depend on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9zIFfE8IkU

Yeah Lars really has gone down hill...the "Skunx" tattoo on his forehead really doesn't help. As for Rancid, its another one of those bands that I don't think Id be too interested in them if I was hearing them for the first time today, but I've been listening to them since I was a wee rocker so its kind of got nostalgic appeal for me. In fact, "...And Out Come The Wolves" was one of the first albums I ever owned, that wasn't inherited from my dad or my older brothers. Purchased from mowing lawns and giving truckers blow jobs washing windows.

Anyways, ironically I think Tim Armstrong holds Rancid back, because Lars Frederiksen & The Bastards is a lot more consistent than Rancid.

Operation Ivy? Yeah I remember my brother loved them, could never really get into them myself. Another song I've been listening to a lot lately is Skrewdriver's "Shove The Dove", I love the song and was tempted to order the CD, but I'm really not into the idea of giving some nazi-skinhead assholes my money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dprruukTlw

To me, Rancid were the Bruce Springsteens of punk. Song lyrics that just seemed almost mundane/every day - to the point of being almost interchangeable. i.e. "Woke up this morning, headed on out the door, kids playing stickball in the street, headed out for something to eat" type stuff.

that's a limited scope of both bands, but was the impression i got from my minimal exposure.

i did love the opening track to Out Come The Wolves - particularly the bass solo - but the rest of the album never connected like so many other punk bands from that timeframe did - NoFX, Strung Out, Propaghandi... let alone the older punk, like GBH, Exploited, DK, etc. that i grew up on in the 80s.

Hahaha, yeah I see what you mean. But its not hard to impress a 13 year old. Their songs are usually pretty bouncy and have a catchy tune, so its hard not to like it at that age. That and I connected with the whole lower class white trash misfit kid type thing.

Punk became fucked when individualism was no longer a concept but a trend. When you see the first pictures of punks going to Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Buzzcocks or the Damned concerts, every one had a different style. Later more bands appeared and the Sid Vicious/Mohican look started to dominate. Every punk started to look the same and that sort of killed the original idea of punk. The Exploited may say Punk's Not Dead but they were probably the band the caused the legion of black leather mohawked sheep. I was a punk for years when I was younger. I sported a Mohawk but considered myself an idividual because I blended my punk style with many others, grunge, metal, hard rock... There are still some good punk bands out there today, the most famous of which are probably Rancid and the Dropkick Murphys who use the old simple but rusty sound. I noticed some bands here that I don't consider punk a all: Simple Plan, My Chemical Romance, Good Charlotte and the like. They are Emo bands not punk.

I can tolerate it from a social perspective (don't know which one), but do not like the music at all.

PUNK = CRAP. I'm sorry but to listen to such dirt as this stuff is horrible, hurts the ears. All of these bands are of so low talent, granted i don't like to put down someones music but this genre is just so bad, i hope it dies out in years to come. I would rather listen to country than this junk.

Written by Karasawa II on 09.09.2009 at 01:24

PUNK = CRAP. I'm sorry but to listen to such dirt as this stuff is horrible, hurts the ears. All of these bands are of so low talent, granted i don't like to put down someones music but this genre is just so bad, i hope it dies out in years to come. I would rather listen to country than this junk.

YOUR OPINION = UNINFORMED
I could understand someone not being a fan of the sound, but to make a comment about wanting the genre to die, especially coming from one who considers himself a metalhead. Without punk, metal would not be what it is today, in fact its actually considered by many renowned music journalists to be instrumental in the rising of the NWOBHM movement. I could get into an in-depth explanation, but I'm saving that for my article. If you want to pursue such ignorance any further I recommend doing so after reading my well researched article, I guarantee you'll have a harder time saying such things after reading it.

About the skill level? Well, obviously you don't understand the idea of punk. It wasn't about uber-virtuosity and wanking, keep in mind music is art, an expression, not sports - until you understand this you will continue to completely overlook great music. Punk was originally stripped-down aggressive music for angry youth, basically. Certain people (including myself) connect with punk because being able to express yourself that way with little skill is easier to identify with, it seems more attainable. There's a certain separation felt by some people with the extravagance of metal. Besides, Matt Freeman of Rancid is 10x better than 90% of the metal bassists out there.

By the way, if you hate punk stay away from the following bands:
Motorhead
Venom
Sodom
Anthrax
SOD
Municipal Waste
Toxic Holocaust
(New) Darkthrone
Metallica
Danzig

...Just to name a few. Man, I feel bad, you must be really missing out!

Besides there is a number of "pub punk rock" local bands, which are really funny to hear from time to time...at least in our country (Tři Sestry, Alkehol...)

I like punk. Motorhead were a band that appealed to metalheads and punks alike, and I have a feeling Lemmy feels more kinship with the punks, then he does with metalheads!

I don't really have a preference, when it comes to the rawer, heavier punk, and the poppier stuff. The Sex Pistols and The Ramones are great, but Discharge are awesome also! I know a lot of metalheads hate Green Day, but i like em'. I prefer The Offspring though, as they've always had a darker edge to their music which Green Day don't have. I do hate most of the pop punk bands though...

I can't say I know much about punk. I haven't listened to much, but I've been wanting to for a good while. Can anyone provide a good starting point for a for a poor newb?

Written by Guest on 06.11.2009 at 00:25

I can't say I know much about punk. I haven't listened to much, but I've been wanting to for a good while. Can anyone provide a good starting point for a for a poor newb?

judging by a quick glance at your favorites list, and a lot of well produced stuff there, i might suggest some 90's fat wreck chords stuff. not as raw as the original punk movement, so it might be an easier "in" for you.

Strung Out had some metal roots, which is reflected in their musicianship... i'd stick to the first three albums (Another Day in Paradise, Teenage Suburban Wasteland Blues, and Twisted by Design) as they apparently emo'd for the worst in the last decade.

Monster

Population Control

Bark At The Moon - an Ozzy cover. Amusingly the link goes to the original Ozzy vid wtih the Strung Out version's audio track.


Propaghandi - super lefty political canuck punk.

Anti-Manifesto

Middle Finger Response

NOFX

Linoleum

Dinosaurs Will Die (about the collapse of the record industry)

Bad Religion - links are from "No Control", released in the 80's. they are a bridge between the older bands and the ones above.

I Want To Conquer The World

No Control

Old school punk like Iggy Pop, Ramones or Sex Pistol are ok, but Green Day shit- fuck that