Im listen it but not so much because bands what I like is not a satanic, ok can be lyrics lil, but I dont lsiten Gorgoroth, Marduk so often, I dont remeber when I lsitened it so generaly I listen it but dont care , I would say I heard it once but if band is bad and sucks I wont no metter what,

I cant vote because I hate lyrics, such lyrics and dont reda those, even I have read in my alcoholical period of my life when I wa sfuck in head , drink to much but only once, they dont means nothing to me, simply carp

Written by Guest on 02.09.2011 at 19:14

I think he was referring to himself, as he had Qur'an in his favorite books, I think

Anyway I cant say anything against Beasties choice to leave MS. He is just 15, all of this is still new to him. He is honestly trying his best to be a good Muslim, and right now he feels that he can marry his love for metal with his love for his faith. I hope he does some thinking, and realizes that he is doing nothing wrong by listening to music as long as you keep your own mind and stay true to what you believe.

Peace Beastboy

He's really good man. but there's tradition here about Metal = Satanists = Hated, He felt in love with metal music but that's wasn't that important as much as he want to grow up as good Muslim guy.

Written by BitterCOld on 02.09.2011 at 19:50


his account was deleted on his end at the end of July, a new one created, and deleted again now at the start of September. MS staff had nothing to do with it...

so i was right....he did deleted/re-created accounts in the past...
i have strong feeling that we will see him again

I don't doubt it.

With pretty much all metal lyrics (or just lyrics in general, I guess), if they're delivered cleanly enough for me to understand them, I typically a) don't care at all for them and/or b) just can't make any sense out of them. Especially true when it comes to satanic bands.

If I were forced to memorize satanic lyrics, I'd want them to be Belphegorish. Make them cartoonish and over-the-top, or else I'm just not interested. As soon as they get too adjective/Latin heavy or get too serious, I'll start dozing. The biggest problem with satanic writing, as i see it, is the fact that it takes itself too fucking seriously. No sense of humor in it at all, from what I've seen.

Written by Guest on 02.09.2011 at 19:14

Written by Kuroboshi on 02.09.2011 at 19:02

Written by Metal_4Ever on 02.09.2011 at 18:19

He PM-ed me before he deleted his account: How do you listen to Dimmu Borgir and your favorite book is The Holy Qur'an, it's a sin, and big one too.

I can understand how listening to "Tormenter of Christian Souls" is blasphemy (from a narrow christian view of the world), but I can't really see his arguments for attacking the Qur'an, which is just really close-minded. I'm not religious, but I don't see any necessity to condemn other people for not following the beliefs you have yourself.

I think he was referring to himself, as he had Qur'an in his favorite books, I think

Anyway I cant say anything against Beasties choice to leave MS. He is just 15, all of this is still new to him. He is honestly trying his best to be a good Muslim, and right now he feels that he can marry his love for metal with his love for his faith. I hope he does some thinking, and realizes that he is doing nothing wrong by listening to music as long as you keep your own mind and stay true to what you believe.

Peace Beastboy

PS didn't he already delete his account once ?

Oh, I entirely misread the whole situation. :O Then I guess it's just that he has to come in terms with himself.

( in option No.2 : obviously if someone don't like the lyrics , logically seems that would not read them either )

i can't find the right option for myself , " i listen to it and of course i read the lyrics BUT i'm not a fan of Satan! "

as an Atheist , the concept of " Satan " is more meaningless ( maybe ridiculous! ) than the concept of " God " for me , so Satanic lyrical themes in Metal music is equal to some fairy tale or legendary and mythologic concept that we have in Folk , Viking , Power , etc ... in my eyes .

'I listen to and don't give a shit' should be an option

Written by DevilishSong on 03.09.2011 at 20:50

i can't find the right option for myself , " i listen to it and of course i read the lyrics BUT i'm not a fan of Satan!

I agree. I listen to it and I read the lyrics. I can enjoy the lyrics, but fan of Satan? Naaaaah...
I must admit though I like some christbashing from time to time

Written by Angelic Storm on 02.09.2011 at 17:24

Written by Guest on 02.09.2011 at 14:41
Deleted his own account. He decided that he'd wasted 2 years on metal and wasn't prepared to continue going against his beliefs.

What? :\ He already said he didn't like satanic bands, so I don't see how liking metal in general would go against his beliefs... ah well, it's his decision I guess.

his decision was absolutely right! because if someone want to be a real Muslim ( as he was or he wanted to be , and believing in Quran and etc ... ) it's obviously against his/her religious values to hear Metal Music ( any kind ) . besides in real Islam , music ( of any sorts ) is forbidden and Muslim should just listen to the voice of someone who read Quran out loud in harmony.
be sure that i know this better than you European/Christian people , cause i am just living in a **** Muslim country .

Written by DevilishSong on 03.09.2011 at 21:10
his decision was absolutely right! because if someone want to be a real Muslim ( as he was or he wanted to be , and believing in Quran and etc ... ) it's obviously against his/her religious values to hear Metal Music ( any kind ) . besides in real Islam , music ( of any sorts ) is forbidden and Muslim should just listen to the voice of someone who read Quran out loud in harmony.
be sure that i know this better than you European/Christian people , cause i am just living in a **** Muslim country .

At the time I made that post, I was under the impression he was a Christian, I didn't know he was a Muslim when I said that.

I'm aware that in countries like Iran and Afghanistan music is banned, although there is much debate and arguement amongst Muslim people as a whole, as to whether music is forbidden by the Quran or not. I have not studied the Quran, so I would not be able to answer that question myself obviously.

Insofar as I can be bothered to read and think about lyrics, I either scoff at bad profane and religious (Satanic, Christian, whatever) equally, or I respect all good lyrics as representatives of valuable traditions. Just like I study theology at University, research Biblical exegesis and respect the cultural and historical value of the church, I have that same interest and respect for many anti-Christian traditions. They're all wonderful aspects of human life. Good Satanic lyrics are something I can appreciate as much as good devotional Christian gospel lyrics or lyrics guided by secular consumerism ideology, but most of the time (in all cases) the lyrics are just awkward, naive and not worth my attention.

And I dare say advocates of Sufi music and devotional practices would disagree with you when you claim "real Islam" has no place for music. That is just factually incorrect nonsense (unless you approach it from a normative, dogmatic point of view and want to decide who are "real muslims" and who aren't - but then you're just trying to exercise power over things outside of your reach). Music is not only accepted by most muslims, for many it is integral to coming into contact with God.

I don't think anyone can say anything reliable about the role of music in the Islam of Muhammad's time, because sadly there's no tradition of scholarly academic Quran research, that I know of. The rise of the historical-critical method that swept over Biblical research since the Enlightenment never made its way into academic Quran scholarship, so we simply don't have a very good idea of that time and the background of the book. Sure, we have authorities and commonly agreed-on stories, but any reliable information must be produced through the disagreement of dozens of scholars. (The lack of a commonly-shared historical perspective on the Quran is, in my opinion, one major problem and obstacle in integrating an Islamic devotion into a modern Western worldview. For Muslims it is not yet widely possible to interpret the Quran as a historical document that has sparked a faith with greater scope and implications, which is something liberal Christian theology has succeesed at.)

But I really digress, here! As I said, I don't mind good lyrics of any kind, and I mostly just roll my eyes at bad lyrics. Art should be considered amoral, or else we're in some deep shit.

I don't really care i mean i'm not a fan os satan but it doesnt bother me, i don't see why it should!

Surprisingly as it is ... i somehow voted for "i am fan of satan"....
as the entities as God and Satan are created by human kind i dont see nothing bad in singing about any of them two...Also real problem with Satanic lyrics lies not in word Satan but in word amoral.There is a difference.You see ,in most cases listeners (like the poor beast) will eventually hit the "i am doing the wrong stuff" wall and sometimes (because they are highly moral persons) quit it.
Now back to me : i dont have problem with Satanic lyrics because i have the hard time to accept this age morals,the propaganda shit that you should a working bee all your life so that you will die poor,ignorant,used and abused and sent to Heaven which is imaginary entity ....
to finnish "Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven"....

Written by IronAngel on 04.09.2011 at 01:25


And I dare say advocates of Sufi music and devotional practices would disagree with you when you claim "real Islam" has no place for music. That is just factually incorrect nonsense (unless you approach it from a normative, dogmatic point of view and want to decide who are "real muslims" and who aren't - but then you're just trying to exercise power over things outside of your reach). Music is not only accepted by most muslims, for many it is integral to coming into contact with God.

I don't think anyone can say anything reliable about the role of music in the Islam of Muhammad's time, because sadly there's no tradition of scholarly academic Quran research, that I know of. The rise of the historical-critical method that swept over Biblical research since the Enlightenment never made its way into academic Quran scholarship, so we simply don't have a very good idea of that time and the background of the book. Sure, we have authorities and commonly agreed-on stories, but any reliable information must be produced through the disagreement of dozens of scholars. (The lack of a commonly-shared historical perspective on the Quran is, in my opinion, one major problem and obstacle in integrating an Islamic devotion into a modern Western worldview. For Muslims it is not yet widely possible to interpret the Quran as a historical document that has sparked a faith with greater scope and implications, which is something liberal Christian theology has succeesed at.)

it is not so much related to this voting pool , but i need to say something about what you mentioned .

in order to what you said , no offense but i am pretty sure that you know almost nothing about Islam and Muslims . there is so many differences in structure of Islam and Christianity . Islam's orders and its ideology is not just according to Qu'ran and there is so many resources that have written by their leader whom muslim call them " Imam " , " Sheykh " or " Molla " , ... and they rely on and believing these too ( i am not gonna to confuse you by saying the names of these books but if you are so interested in , we could continue on private message ) . Qu'ran is a ambiguous text that everyone could interpret it by their own taste , i don't know that if you read it or not but i read it entirely and even forced to memorize some parts in my education career in school ( when i was 12 or 13 years old ) ....

unlike what you said , there is many research about history of Islam and its evolving ( by both western and middle eastern researchers ), that depicted the almost accurate perspective of Muhammad's time and after that. there is a " real Islam " ( even just according to Qu'ran ) and it is not a liberal and humanitarian ideology like Christianity at all.

Music is forbidden in Islam and if you know Arabic i would gladly give you many resources about that . obviously your information about this subject is so weak and please if you see someone saying that " i love music and i am a real muslim " do not go for buying that nonsense phrase , he/she definitely would be a mendacious or a stupid person.

The only thing that is a little crappy is that Christianity gets all the bashing while the other major religions ( Islam, Judaism ) kinda got away with it

Written by DevilishSong on 04.09.2011 at 11:13

in order to what you said , no offense but i am pretty sure that you know almost nothing about Islam and Muslims . there is so many differences in structure of Islam and Christianity . Islam's orders and its ideology is not just according to Qu'ran and there is so many resources that have written by their leader whom muslim call them " Imam " , " Sheykh " or " Molla " , ... and they rely on and believing these too ( i am not gonna to confuse you by saying the names of these books but if you are so interested in , we could continue on private message ) . Qu'ran is a ambiguous text that everyone could interpret it by their own taste , i don't know that if you read it or not but i read it entirely and even forced to memorize some parts in my education career in school ( when i was 12 or 13 years old ) ....

unlike what you said , there is many research about history of Islam and its evolving ( by both western and middle eastern researchers ), that depicted the almost accurate perspective of Muhammad's time and after that. there is a " real Islam " ( even just according to Qu'ran ) and it is not a liberal and humanitarian ideology like Christianity at all.

Music is forbidden in Islam and if you know Arabic i would gladly give you many resources about that . obviously your information about this subject is so weak and please if you see someone saying that " i love music and i am a real muslim " do not go for buying that nonsense phrase , he/she definitely would be a mendacious or a stupid person.

I know a great deal about Islam. As I said, I study theology in University and my secondary subject is comparative religion (history and sociology of religion, mostly). Your proximity to a certain kind of understanding about Islam clearly colors your perspective to the extent that you can talk about "real Islam" as if other forms of Islam were "false." That is religious, dogmatic talk. It's not rational and objective at all. Sufism certainly considers itself Islam, and for them music is a way to achieve the unio mystica with God. How can you say they forbid music?

You clearly think some person can decide what the "real" practice of a given religion is. But that's like arguing over whose favorite food is better.

If you know some modern exegesis into the Quran (I am talking about the so-called historical-critical methods in use in Biblical exegesis, and why not some modern tools like feminist criticism or contextual analysis), I am happy to get recommendations. All I know is that people across the Western world accept the historical facts research has uncovered about the Bible over the last few centuries and that has given to rise liberal theology. There are many Universities that practice high-quality scientific, secular research into the Bible. The Muslim world still mostly considers the Quran an ahistorical book reflecting directly the unchanging Quran of God, instead of accepting it for the historical, secular product that it is. And that's what I think is impeding so many from adopting modern outlooks, or at least giving them a hard time adjusting. Your music example is a case in point: something completely outdated and unfitting for modern life, but some parties still feel compelled to adopt the rule into their religious life.

And yes, this nonsense happens among fundamentalist Christians too. It's actually quite common. But because research has put the book into historical perspective and liberal theology has given leeway in its interpretations, many Christians can also freely adapt their religion to the circumstances of modern society. And that is the true test of any religion: whether it can change, evolve and survive in a meaningful form as society changes. Unchanging religions are dead religions.

Anyway ..." Lemmy is my god "...

I listen to it but don't like the lyrics so much.

Written by IronAngel on 04.09.2011 at 14:18

Written by DevilishSong on 04.09.2011 at 11:13

in order to what you said , no offense but i am pretty sure that you know almost nothing about Islam and Muslims . there is so many differences in structure of Islam and Christianity . Islam's orders and its ideology is not just according to Qu'ran and there is so many resources that have written by their leader whom muslim call them " Imam " , " Sheykh " or " Molla " , ... and they rely on and believing these too ( i am not gonna to confuse you by saying the names of these books but if you are so interested in , we could continue on private message ) . Qu'ran is a ambiguous text that everyone could interpret it by their own taste , i don't know that if you read it or not but i read it entirely and even forced to memorize some parts in my education career in school ( when i was 12 or 13 years old ) ....

unlike what you said , there is many research about history of Islam and its evolving ( by both western and middle eastern researchers ), that depicted the almost accurate perspective of Muhammad's time and after that. there is a " real Islam " ( even just according to Qu'ran ) and it is not a liberal and humanitarian ideology like Christianity at all.

Music is forbidden in Islam and if you know Arabic i would gladly give you many resources about that . obviously your information about this subject is so weak and please if you see someone saying that " i love music and i am a real muslim " do not go for buying that nonsense phrase , he/she definitely would be a mendacious or a stupid person.

I know a great deal about Islam. As I said, I study theology in University and my secondary subject is comparative religion (history and sociology of religion, mostly). Your proximity to a certain kind of understanding about Islam clearly colors your perspective to the extent that you can talk about "real Islam" as if other forms of Islam were "false." That is religious, dogmatic talk. It's not rational and objective at all. Sufism certainly considers itself Islam, and for them music is a way to achieve the unio mystica with God. How can you say they forbid music?

Actually, music in Real Islam is forbidden except some of slowly slowly music, Allah said that in the holy Qur'an that The music is forbidden.

Lol, there you go again with the "real Islam" as if there was a wrong way to practice religion.

And furthermore, this is exactly what I mean with lack of exegetic research. The Quran certainly doesn't say anything about popular music, something that has existed for about a century. None of the Quran's writers could have had any clue about what listening to music is like in the 21st century. The meaning of that line is dependant on its context, so you would have to find out what practical implications "idle talk" such as music would have had at the time of writing. Even a cursory glance suggests that music (and the context in which music was played and listened to, I imagine foreign like Hellenistic festivities, possibly decadent food and drink orgies) was seen as a threat to one's devotion to God. The purpose was also possibly to make a distinction to local pagan traditions using music in worship. These are all just guesses, but this is the kind of research I'm talking about. "Real Islam", whatever that is, would have to account for the background of the historical document and then consider how to apply it.

Anyway, there's a topic for this in Serious Discussion.

Written by IronAngel on 04.09.2011 at 14:18

Written by DevilishSong on 04.09.2011 at 11:13

in order to what you said , no offense but i am pretty sure that you know almost nothing about Islam and Muslims . there is so many differences in structure of Islam and Christianity . Islam's orders and its ideology is not just according to Qu'ran and there is so many resources that have written by their leader whom muslim call them " Imam " , " Sheykh " or " Molla " , ... and they rely on and believing these too ( i am not gonna to confuse you by saying the names of these books but if you are so interested in , we could continue on private message ) . Qu'ran is a ambiguous text that everyone could interpret it by their own taste , i don't know that if you read it or not but i read it entirely and even forced to memorize some parts in my education career in school ( when i was 12 or 13 years old ) ....

unlike what you said , there is many research about history of Islam and its evolving ( by both western and middle eastern researchers ), that depicted the almost accurate perspective of Muhammad's time and after that. there is a " real Islam " ( even just according to Qu'ran ) and it is not a liberal and humanitarian ideology like Christianity at all.

Music is forbidden in Islam and if you know Arabic i would gladly give you many resources about that . obviously your information about this subject is so weak and please if you see someone saying that " i love music and i am a real muslim " do not go for buying that nonsense phrase , he/she definitely would be a mendacious or a stupid person.

I know a great deal about Islam. As I said, I study theology in University and my secondary subject is comparative religion (history and sociology of religion, mostly). Your proximity to a certain kind of understanding about Islam clearly colors your perspective to the extent that you can talk about "real Islam" as if other forms of Islam were "false." That is religious, dogmatic talk. It's not rational and objective at all. Sufism certainly considers itself Islam, and for them music is a way to achieve the unio mystica with God. How can you say they forbid music?

You clearly think some person can decide what the "real" practice of a given religion is. But that's like arguing over whose favorite food is better.

If you know some modern exegesis into the Quran (I am talking about the so-called historical-critical methods in use in Biblical exegesis, and why not some modern tools like feminist criticism or contextual analysis), I am happy to get recommendations. All I know is that people across the Western world accept the historical facts research has uncovered about the Bible over the last few centuries and that has given to rise liberal theology. There are many Universities that practice high-quality scientific, secular research into the Bible. The Muslim world still mostly considers the Quran an ahistorical book reflecting directly the unchanging Quran of God, instead of accepting it for the historical, secular product that it is. And that's what I think is impeding so many from adopting modern outlooks, or at least giving them a hard time adjusting. Your music example is a case in point: something completely outdated and unfitting for modern life, but some parties still feel compelled to adopt the rule into their religious life.

And yes, this nonsense happens among fundamentalist Christians too. It's actually quite common. But because research has put the book into historical perspective and liberal theology has given leeway in its interpretations, many Christians can also freely adapt their religion to the circumstances of modern society. And that is the true test of any religion: whether it can change, evolve and survive in a meaningful form as society changes. Unchanging religions are dead religions.

My Dear friend ,
i understood the way you comprehend Islamic viewpoint ( or the whole theological concept ) but i do not agree with you and surly you are wrong about some parts.
i don't know which the references you've read in your educational course about Islam , but i was born in Islamic country , a country which rational law replaced with Allah's orders , educated in educational system that if you even want to be a network engineer you should read about Islamic subject 1/6 of your time ( as i did , and yes this is ridiculous! ) , i faced with religious conventionalities most days of my life , i've been bombarded all times with Islamic concept in every kind of media , here in this country you can't live even a single day without the shadow of Islam and its rules.
i haven't so much information in Christianity except reading the whole Bible and some of Alister McGrath's works , but i did read vast amount of books and articles about Islam and its branches in Arabic , English and Persian .

as Metal_4Ever ( from Syria ) said there is a "real Islam" and and it is what Muhammad brings and invented for their people. the idea you've emphasized on , that religions should change themselves through history and time to be update with humans life is not accepted in Islam , Muslim leader called it " بدعت " (bed'at) which means " Innovation in negative form "( adding something to Islam for any reason ) and it considered a great sin and in past ages could brings even execution for whom did that.

you said : " Sufism certainly considers itself Islam, and for them music is a way to achieve the unio mystica with God. How can you say they forbid music? "
yes they do , but this is a one way consideration , do you know the idea of Muslims and their leaders about Sufism ? Muslims ( shi'ite , Sunnite , Wahhabi and ... ) consider Sufism as infidelity . Sufism is not equal to Islam and not even one of its branches.

main point of your words is "religion adaptation" and "liberal theology" but non of these are accepted in Islam. ( you would see this if you read history of Islam in more depth ) . why we see so many differences in culture of Islamic society and Christian society ? why we still have Islamic government that rules with religious law ? Islam , Qu'ran and its rules could not be adapted for using in liberal society and if you do that it wouldn't be Islam and you would be a sinner ( in Islam ) of course.

i wish that i have better ability in English to talk to you in more depth , it is an honor for me to discuss with you my friend and i like to know more about your references and your knowledge , please let me know if you want to continue in private message.

There should be an option "yes i listen to it, no i dont care about the lyrics" becuase thats what i would choose.

My own opinion: don't care about it but then again most metal songs is in english and that is not my first language so I can distance it from it I suppose...but if I should hear a satanic song in swedish I would probably laugh my ass off

I listen to blasphemous and NS themed music often. I refuse to go near Christian metal, for the same reason that a Christian would stay away from satanic metal. Deicide's lyrics pretty much sum up my feelings for Christianity and organized religion in general.

Written by DevilishSong on 04.09.2011 at 18:06


i wish that i have better ability in English to talk to you in more depth

i like the way u're talking, so simple and organized. i think u're familiar with such topics and u have this ability to discuss and persuade. i want to read more of ur posts.

for me i listen to it kind of curiosity, listening just once and eventually dont like it

and goodbye BeastOfMetal, i guess ur last topic will be remarkable :p

Who the fuck gives a shit? Its just lyrics for Christ's sake. I would never ignore good music because of lyrical content. I don't believe in any deity but I listen to bands with Christian themes, Jewish themes, Muslim themes, Satanic themes and Pagan themes. I really don't give a goddamn what the vocalist is saying. I can't believe people do...

Written by Jiri on 05.09.2011 at 00:24

I really don't give a goddamn what the vocalist is saying. I can't believe people do...

whats the point of vocalist than?

Written by Bulletdodger on 04.09.2011 at 13:47

The only thing that is a little crappy is that Christianity gets all the bashing while the other major religions ( Islam, Judaism ) kinda got away with it

This. It's considered perfectly ok to bash Christianity and sing about sodomizing virgins and burning them for the devil while swimming in a pool of semen and goats blood, but if you dare to insult Jews, than a large amount of metalheads will consider you do be 'Nazi Scum'.

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 05.09.2011 at 00:28

Written by Jiri on 05.09.2011 at 00:24

I really don't give a goddamn what the vocalist is saying. I can't believe people do...

whats the point of vocalist than?

The sound of the vocalist.