Rap thread: http://www.metalstorm.net/forum/topic.php?topic_id=2807
Hip hop thread: http://www.metalstorm.net/forum/topic.php?topic_id=10353

...and resume with...the discussion?

Qourthon once said : "In every genre of music there is 80% of crap,and 20% of good stuff. "
I dont see that he was wrong on that one....

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 09.04.2011 at 02:22

Qourthon once said : "In every genre of music there is 80% of crap,and 20% of good stuff. "
I dont see that he was wrong on that one....

Is that a direct quote? I mean, for a musician who is considered a "legend", I would expect a popular quote to come from him that is more, yuh know... thought-provoking. Does he have a famous quote about his favorite sandwich meat too?

Written by Fat & Sassy! on 09.04.2011 at 04:00

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 09.04.2011 at 02:22

Qourthon once said : "In every genre of music there is 80% of crap,and 20% of good stuff. "
I dont see that he was wrong on that one....

Is that a direct quote? I mean, for a musician who is considered a "legend", I would expect a popular quote to come from him that is more, yuh know... though-provoking. Does he have a famous quote about his favorite sandwich meat too?

For every type of sandwich meat, there is 80% of crap, and 20% of the good stuff.

Written by Guest on 09.04.2011 at 06:08

Written by Fat & Sassy! on 09.04.2011 at 04:00

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 09.04.2011 at 02:22

Qourthon once said : "In every genre of music there is 80% of crap,and 20% of good stuff. "
I dont see that he was wrong on that one....

Is that a direct quote? I mean, for a musician who is considered a "legend", I would expect a popular quote to come from him that is more, yuh know... though-provoking. Does he have a famous quote about his favorite sandwich meat too?

For every type of sandwich meat, there is 80% of crap, and 20% of the good stuff.

... I will allow this.

XD

Written by Fat & Sassy! on 09.04.2011 at 04:00

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 09.04.2011 at 02:22

Qourthon once said : "In every genre of music there is 80% of crap,and 20% of good stuff. "
I dont see that he was wrong on that one....

Is that a direct quote? I mean, for a musician who is considered a "legend", I would expect a popular quote to come from him that is more, yuh know... thought-provoking. Does he have a famous quote about his favorite sandwich meat too?

its not a direct quote....i cant remember exactly how he said it but that was the meaning.....

I think that applies for people for who English isn't their first language. It takes a lot more to understand metal music in a different language, leading to higher mental ability (or you call it intelligence) than listening to regular music, or metal in the native language. Especially understanding lyrics leads to more progress. Also simply listening to new things and adopting them as your own takes effort which can lead to an increase in intelligence.
But these things are not set in stone, it's extremely hard to set a direct connection between two things, especially between intelligence and something else.

Written by Sophist on 09.04.2011 at 15:42

I think that applies for people for who English isn't their first language. It takes a lot more to understand metal music in a different language

Not really. I don't care for lyrics AT ALL for example.

Written by IronAngel on 02.04.2011 at 22:42

Defining the average person is about the easiest task there is. Make a survey about all factors you want to measure, and then calcualte the, well, average. It's simple math learned in grade school. It's another thing completely whether there's any single individual that meets all the criteria of the average person, but that's not the point.

People seem to criticise scientific generalisations because "they don't always fully apply." Well duh, they're statistic generalisations. Just because you (think you) happen to fall in a marginal category doesn't mean the average probability is incorrect. Void_Eater, you talk as if you had free will and complete (self-)awareness in a system such as our society which is fundamentally based on norm and role expectations, peer pressure and hidden mechanisms of control. Do you think you freely, without outside influence choose what you read, who you hang out with and where you shop? The thing is, whether you deny conformity or not, you're still subject to the mechanisms that govern society and part of the people about whom statistical generalisations are made. They will apply to you with a certain probability (if they're valid), whether you like it or not. On a related note, the alleged non-conformity of many (pseudo-)intellectual youths is one of the most blatant forms of conformity visible in society.

If this is such a simple task how do you determine which factors constitute a person? Such a survey implies subjectivity, 'all the factors YOU want to measure', thus you are defining the 'average' person based on a set of parameters. This is fine, but in defining 'average' you are not defining a uniform and overarching sense of 'average' only something respective of selective factors. I agree that any given person may or may not equate with the 'average' and that this is an irrelevant consideration. Assuming that no one person reflects the average, the average simply serves a way in which distinctions can be made.

When I read 'average' person I haven't the slightest clue to what this refers, unless I have something with which can substantiate what is meant by 'average'. That is I need to see what factors are considered, or I need to see such a survey as you have suggested in order to have some idea of what exactly is meant by 'average'.

Not smarter, but defiantly harder of hearing

Written by R'Vannith on 09.04.2011 at 17:01

If this is such a simple task how do you determine which factors constitute a person? Such a survey implies subjectivity, 'all the factors YOU want to measure', thus you are defining the 'average' person based on a set of parameters. This is fine, but in defining 'average' you are not defining a uniform and overarching sense of 'average' only something respective of selective factors. I agree that any given person may or may not equate with the 'average' and that this is an irrelevant consideration. Assuming that no one person reflects the average, the average simply serves a way in which distinctions can be made.

When I read 'average' person I haven't the slightest clue to what this refers, unless I have something with which can substantiate what is meant by 'average'. That is I need to see what factors are considered, or I need to see such a survey as you have suggested in order to have some idea of what exactly is meant by 'average'.

Oh yes, I fully agree. If you want to have a meaningful and productive discussion, everybody needs to be on the same page with the terminology. Universal and absolute concepts are a pipedream anyway (or more like a nightmare from my "post-modern" viewpoint, but whatever). I was just responding to you wishing "good luck" to anyone who wants to define the average person. You don't need luck, you just need to select the traits you wish to measure and quantify them - which is not always possible, of course, but then you just don't select such traits. In this context, I guess "average" could mean someone of average IQ, average standard of living and/or something else. If we wanted to do research on this or some other subject, we could fairly easily select a set of traits to measure and then calculate the average; it's still a viable concept to operate with, and that's really my only point.

But anyway,

Written by IronAngel on 09.04.2011 at 21:36

Written by R'Vannith on 09.04.2011 at 17:01

If this is such a simple task how do you determine which factors constitute a person? Such a survey implies subjectivity, 'all the factors YOU want to measure', thus you are defining the 'average' person based on a set of parameters. This is fine, but in defining 'average' you are not defining a uniform and overarching sense of 'average' only something respective of selective factors. I agree that any given person may or may not equate with the 'average' and that this is an irrelevant consideration. Assuming that no one person reflects the average, the average simply serves a way in which distinctions can be made.

When I read 'average' person I haven't the slightest clue to what this refers, unless I have something with which can substantiate what is meant by 'average'. That is I need to see what factors are considered, or I need to see such a survey as you have suggested in order to have some idea of what exactly is meant by 'average'.

Oh yes, I fully agree. If you want to have a meaningful and productive discussion, everybody needs to be on the same page with the terminology. Universal and absolute concepts are a pipedream anyway (or more like a nightmare from my "post-modern" viewpoint, but whatever). I was just responding to you wishing "good luck" to anyone who wants to define the average person. You don't need luck, you just need to select the traits you wish to measure and quantify them - which is not always possible, of course, but then you just don't select such traits. In this context, I guess "average" could mean someone of average IQ, average standard of living and/or something else. If we wanted to do research on this or some other subject, we could fairly easily select a set of traits to measure and then calculate the average; it's still a viable concept to operate with, and that's really my only point.

But anyway,

Fair enough, my point though in saying 'good luck' was aimed towards defining the 'average' person simpliciter, based on the fact that what factors are to used in this sense of 'average' aren't really stated in the thread.

My only problem is that when people state 'average' person and don't specify what they mean by this then I assume they mean an 'average' person simpliciter. There certainly would be an 'average' person based on any number of sets of factors/criteria, but each average would be necessarily different from the rest.

But for the purposes of this thread all that matters is that we know what is meant by 'average' person, which generally speaking is based on intelligence.

Written by Fade To Black on 09.04.2011 at 19:50

Not smarter, but defiantly harder of hearing

I like this quote, both the intended and unintended meanings. Don't forget your earplugs, Tinnitus is no fun!

I don't know if every metalhead could be considered "intelligent", though I have run into plenty of metalheads that are philosophical thinkers and can get into very deep discussions on life and controversial topics. Which can suggest a higher level of intellectual thinking.

But I can say a definite observation I've made, is most metalheads seem to be more musically passionate then the average person. As most metalheads either from running around like idiots with corpse paint on their face burning churches in the name of their favorite black metal band, to being a complete metal elitist douche who isn't afraid to tell you your favorite band sucks, then proceed to list at least 25 reasons why their musical taste is better, to the metal "horders" who go out of their way to purchase every single rare metal album they can get their hands on while attending every metal concert and festival that comes around, are all usually very passionate and into the music they listen to in some way, shape, or form.

In a word...yes we are.

I, myself, am very intelligent and possess many talents. In fact, as I'm writing all of this, I am playing a chess match with the current World Chess Champion, while creating an exquisite oil painting with my right hand and solving several complex math equations...using my feet. And while all this is going on, I am in fact listening to metal...of the heaviest variety.

I'd say the average person is about as intelligent as the average person. And I'd say that listening to metal doesn't put you above or below being an average person. You're just an average joe. Who is about as intelligent as any other average joe.

I know many people who are intelligent and are neither rockheads nor metalheads. But to be either a rockhead or a metalhead you need to have nerve to do it, I mean, not everybody stands rock and heavy metal music.

In my case, I'm very intolerant with other kinds of music different to Rock and Heavy Metal genres, because I consider them so simple and weak, that's what metal produces to somebody who has been listening to it for years.

Once I read that people who listen to heavy metal and those who listen to classical music have many things in common.

Sadly, and very sadly the average person in the lazy arse country I live in isn't very intelligent.

Whether they listen to metal or not doesn't change a thing.

Let's try to look at metal and intelligence from this point of view.

I love speed/thrash, and I consider it to be intelligent music. Why? Because I have always believed that it makes you feel like an intelligent person should WANT to feel. In essence, chic and superior. I mean, it doesn't automatically make you intelligent to listen to it, but what if you WERE intelligent and listened to it? It can supplement intelligence quite well. Metal always inspired me to keep my "ducks in a line" throughout my teenage years because if I ever turned into what I perceived as a failure, I would grow too insecure to listen to it - and I avoided this at all costs.

I know that the liberals in this thread would disagree with the essence that intelligence = superiority, but let's face it, when you are involved in communities that are considered more elite than average (ie. private schools, hard work), this mindset tends to grow on you, and nothing will ever change that in a million years in America.

The dopamine hits I received from listening to metal in a private high school always primed me to do well on tests, exams, and homework. It was a reward for me to take time out to listen, and thus I have made the connection in my mind that if you work hard, you get to play hard. Metal is like aural candy for me.

This idea of playing hard through music is paramount in my mind. I enjoy other types of music, but they are all either hard, faster than average, and stimulating. I enjoy some classical, but only if I have A LOT of spare time on my hands. My favorite type of classical music is Renaissance Dance, which is quite stimulating. Metal is a quick fix.

To me, it always seemed to fit into the typical American work ethic. And work makes you smart. Metal has always heightened and stimulated my imagination. Even if Megadeth isn't considered all that intelligent, it has the APPEARANCE of being political and intelligent, and can serve as the catalyst for further study for someone uninitiated in such pursuits.

Now, this is not death metal we are talking about with the mad "cookie monster" groans. I like my metal more normal and "metrosexual". Varga is a good example of a favorite band of mine in which I could never fathom why they weren't more successful. Death metal is not about being cynical (which is a sign of intelligence), it is about primal urges.

Now, there were no true metalheads per se in my school that advertised themselves. If I were back in the 1980's in a small town public school with decorated metalheads, I am not sure that I would have fit in. I always believed that metal should be more of a guilty pleasure than a lifestyle, and should be kept confidential around public social circles. But I always yearned for like-minded people who felt the same way I did about it.

The thing is, I really associate metal with being politically incorrect while not being too decadent like rap, and that is what I love about it. Metal can be evil, but it is more of a superficial kind of evil than the kind of evils rap espouses. And the fact that it is politically incorrect is another reason why I would associate it with intelligence. Even moreso nowadays, since metal is mostly hidden from the public perspective and it would take a curious and inquisitive mind to seek it out. This society we now live in has become too politically correct. Anything to inspire people to think differently is intelligent from my perspective.

Written by cruisefx on 11.12.2011 at 06:28

long assed text as to why poster deems himself intelligrnt. But does not address the topic's question if metal fans are more intelligent than the average personn.

Clearly a case of not understanding the question, and even if so not responding to it correctly, and hence immediately proving that metal fans are NOT more intelligent than the average person.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.12.2011 at 06:37

Written by cruisefx on 11.12.2011 at 06:28

long assed text as to why poster deems himself intelligrnt. But does not address the topic's question if metal fans are more intelligent than the average personn.

Clearly a case of not understanding the question, and even if so not responding to it correctly, and hence immediately proving that metal fans are NOT more intelligent than the average person.

I think the original poster was trying to find solidarity in the hope that metalheads COULD be considered intelligent people in a university setting. Metalheads are obviously looked down upon by this community, but I was trying to show support by proving that metal could and should be a catalyst for intelligence. It is much like trying to ask whether PC users are intelligent. If they choose to run Linux on their machine, then they are intelligent, but there are lots of stupid Windows users out there who dominate the computer scene and Internet today.

You're right about Linux users though, they are more intelligent than most Windows users (aka the average Facebook whore). Considering most of these people don't know anything pre-Win98.

Then again, I don't think metalheads use Linux all too much... most are Windowsfags like the rest or think that Apple is the messiah and buy iEverything they release.

Also, if cynicism is a sign of intelligence, I must be a fucking 13-year old Einstein.

(and just in case you try to pull the Socratic cynicism wildcard on me, survivalists must be geniuses too)

Written by vezzy on 11.12.2011 at 16:36

Also, if cynicism is a sign of intelligence, I must be a fucking 13-year old Einstein.

Cynicism is like a form of intelligent stress/pain. The more you experience it and utilize it in a practical sense, the more you grow stronger. Expressing cynicism isn't always smart, however. You really need it if you are to be a critical thinker in pursuits like literature in school. Politicians have it. They are able to take advantage of it and make themselves seem likable to candidates, but do you really think politicians fall for what other politicians say?

Written by cruisefx on 11.12.2011 at 21:03
Cynicism is like a form of intelligent stress/pain. The more you experience it and utilize it in a practical sense, the more you grow stronger. Expressing cynicism isn't always smart, however. You really need it if you are to be a critical thinker in pursuits like literature in school. Politicians have it. They are able to take advantage of it and make themselves seem likable to candidates, but do you really think politicians fall for what other politicians say?

You are right about intelligent stress/pain. For me, the more I use it, I get a temporary superiority complex over others, but ultimately I regress into self-loathing and gloom.

I always say something snarky and display my sardonic contempt in literature class, as well as my superior knowledge of literary tropes, which annoys my peers to no end. Of course they [politicians] don't fall for what others say, they're the ones pulling the strings in their own idealistic reality. Which they happen to impose on ours. Viva Illuminati...

There are both smart and less smart people which listening to metal, like everything else

Wat is that all the comments don speak about the original topic

anyway u mention a good point i pass with the same situation but the only different that i see is the metal fans are clever but more careless they don care about their study or future just want to enjoy the music

i remember back in time when i was at high school & college i spent hours & hours speaking with my friends only about metal without getting boring & hours & hours just listening to metal without doing any useful thing

u no in deep inside my heart i regret all this wasted times but i don regret metal

Nope.

Thinking you're more intelligent because of musical tastes only proves you're an ignorant fool doubled with an idiot

-Guib-

The fact that alot of metal lyrics promote free-thinking and the music tends to have less "limitations" than say rap or techno.......that may have something to do with many metal finds seeming more intelligent. Alot of metal is more challenging to the mind. Or maybe it's not intellect necessarily, maybe it's just thinking deeper. It's also important to remember that intelligence isn't always measured by grades.

Some of the posts I've read which dismiss this topic as useless and so on......how pitiful

Lmfao. especially coming from "danzig111"...