Ignorance isn't strength, after all. Weird.

Written by RavenKing on 14.09.2010 at 14:32
Precisely. W.A.S.P is not glam rock but hard rock and the only band the other girl mentioned that can be considered metal, depending on songs. And I never considered Guns and Roses as metal.

Yep, W.A.S.P's first 3 albums contained hard rock and metal songs. Though "Inside The Electric Circus" is just about all hard rock/glam aside from maybe 2 songs.

The only time I considered Guns metal was before I really got into metal. GnR are not metal, but their music is a lot harder than bands like Great White/Cinderella etc.. so if Guns aren't metal, then there's no way those bands can be.

Written by Angelic Storm on 14.09.2010 at 18:31

Written by RavenKing on 14.09.2010 at 14:32
Precisely. W.A.S.P is not glam rock but hard rock and the only band the other girl mentioned that can be considered metal, depending on songs. And I never considered Guns and Roses as metal.

Yep, W.A.S.P's first 3 albums contained hard rock and metal songs. Though "Inside The Electric Circus" is just about all hard rock/glam aside from maybe 2 songs.

The only time I considered Guns metal was before I really got into metal. GnR are not metal, but their music is a lot harder than bands like Great White/Cinderella etc.. so if Guns aren't metal, then there's no way those bands can be.

WASP neve rhave criate any bad album, kill fuck die, maybe was weekest, but still those are good, many nowdays euro flower bands never will criate anything like wasp

Written by Bad English on 14.09.2010 at 18:37
WASP neve rhave criate any bad album, kill fuck die, maybe was weekest, but still those are good, many nowdays euro flower bands never will criate anything like wasp

The only non-metal post 89' W.A.S.P. album is "Helldorado". And that is pretty much an awful album, even worse than Electric Circus...

Written by Angelic Storm on 14.09.2010 at 18:49

Written by Bad English on 14.09.2010 at 18:37
WASP neve rhave criate any bad album, kill fuck die, maybe was weekest, but still those are good, many nowdays euro flower bands never will criate anything like wasp

The only non-metal post 89' W.A.S.P. album is "Helldorado". And that is pretty much an awful album, even worse than Electric Circus...

Yes its also bad , my mistace forgot it

Written by vezzy on 14.09.2010 at 10:42

Aren't raw and rough synonymous?

Epic contradiction.

Let me clarify what i meant. When i use the term "raw" with music, i see it as a kind of raw/gutted/forlorned/deep kinda feeling/vibe you get from some songs. Where as "rough" i take more as exuding aggression. Perhaps poor choice of words, but its what i get from it.

Written by Angelic Storm on 14.09.2010 at 11:06

Most of those glam/rock bands listed aren't metal IMO. W.A.S.P are the only ones from that lot Id say are metal, but even then, some of their 80's material falls more squarely into the hard rock category than metal. It wasn't really until "The Headless Children" that their metal side completely took over, and the glam/hard rock was left behind. Guns n' Roses are (or were) heavier and more aggressive than those other bands, and most people dont even class them as metal.

I totally get what you are saying (in your other posts as well), and honestly when it comes down to it, i don't really care if they get classified as metal or rock, i love them just the same. But, I just think there are a lot of contradictions in the "metal" genre... as there are alot of bands/subgenres that i don't see as being any harder/more aggressive that "hair bands", but still a lot of people consider them metal. For example Sentenced, some Within Temptation ... really a lot of bands in the gothic area (just happen to be ones i though of, (and i like them all, so no one get defensive, lol) im sure there are many in other subgen's as well)... so, in that respect, it kinda annoyes the hell out of me when people eliminate hair bands so easily.
And especially within my posts in this thread, the pompous "they shouldn't be said in the same sentence as metal" kind of attitude really is frustrating. I know a lot of the music i listen to is, shall we say, the black sheep of the rock.metal world. And thats fine if other people don't like them, it's not for everyone. But i think the rude comments that go along with stuff are just silly. I detest some other forms of metal, but discuss it without being a bitch about it.
Ok, that's my rant :-) Thanks for your input :-)

Written by NocturnalPoetry on 14.09.2010 at 22:05
I totally get what you are saying (in your other posts as well), and honestly when it comes down to it, i don't really care if they get classified as metal or rock, i love them just the same. But, I just think there are a lot of contradictions in the "metal" genre... as there are alot of bands/subgenres that i don't see as being any harder/more aggressive that "hair bands", but still a lot of people consider them metal. For example Sentenced, some Within Temptation ... really a lot of bands in the gothic area (just happen to be ones i though of, (and i like them all, so no one get defensive, lol) im sure there are many in other subgen's as well)... so, in that respect, it kinda annoyes the hell out of me when people eliminate hair bands so easily.

Well, to some people, Slipknot are not metal either (a ridiculous assertion if you ask me, but some hold it, nontheless). I think there are a group of metalheads who seek to distance anything they regard as "poserish" or "untr00 metal" from the metal genre, period. Its almost as if to class something as "metal", is to automatically give it kudos and credentials. So some bands who clearly are metal will not be accepted as being such, or will be mis-labelled as being "not heavy" in some attempt to discredit the band. So in some cases, bands are being labelled (un-metal) more for the "scene" they get attatched to, rather than the actual music produced itself. I myself dont like hair/glam bands at all, save for early W.A.S.P., and isolated Motley Crue songs. (although even then, I balk at the lyrical content! ) I really couldn't care less about any labels attatched to bands/music. I just like what I like, and thats it. It just happens that the vast majority of the music I like is metal.

Quote:
And especially within my posts in this thread, the pompous "they shouldn't be said in the same sentence as metal" kind of attitude really is frustrating. I know a lot of the music i listen to is, shall we say, the black sheep of the rock.metal world. And thats fine if other people don't like them, it's not for everyone. But i think the rude comments that go along with stuff are just silly. I detest some other forms of metal, but discuss it without being a bitch about it.
Ok, that's my rant :-) Thanks for your input :-)

Well, some people get bashed in metal circles for liking bands far more metallish than glam/hair bands. lol Metal as a genre of music probably has far more elitists in it than any other genre. And so stating a fondness for anything remotely mainstream can come in for some swift criticsm from some in the undergorund metal community. I do definitely think there is no place for rude comments and personal bashing when it comes to discussing tastes in music. It screams of a lack of maturity, and pompous view that others cannot have valid opinions that conflict with their own. However, I will stress that there's nothing wrong with bashing bands/music, thats fine. But personally bashing someone for liking said bands/music is unacceptable IMO, and incredibly childish.

No problem! xD

Written by Angelic Storm on 14.09.2010 at 22:44
Metal as a genre of music probably has far more elitists in it than any other genre.

Very, very true, lol. And there is nothing wrong with feeling the music you like is the best, and almost having a sense of pride in the music you chose. But, in reality it is, in fact, just one's own opinion... it's easy to forget that at times, i'm guilty myself, but it's just a matter of basic respect.

Written by Angelic Storm on 14.09.2010 at 22:44
However, I will stress that there's nothing wrong with bashing bands/music, thats fine.

Absolutely. Critiquing/discussing/bashing bands is fine, as long as you have some sort of basis for what you are saying,... and ideally, are able to entertain other views without bursting into flames

@NocturnalPoetry: I agree with you about gothic bands and flowermetal not being heavier or more metal than glam in some cases. But I mentioned many times on this forum that modern-day Powermetal (what I ususally call flowermetal) is not metal to me but a different kind of pop music. The only Powermetal I like is early Blind Guardian, Hansen-era Helloween and Gamma Ray (true Power/Speed Metal). Also, I must say Edguy shares an awful lot with glam nowadays.
If it can give you an idea, anything softer than 80s Iron Maiden is not metal to me.

On a sidenote, you seem to be reasonable and not rude. I find some of your views and opinions weird and really opposed to my own views, but I'll try to discuss more politely from now on.

Written by NocturnalPoetry on 14.09.2010 at 23:41
Very, very true, lol. And there is nothing wrong with feeling the music you like is the best, and almost having a sense of pride in the music you chose. But, in reality it is, in fact, just one's own opinion... it's easy to forget that at times, i'm guilty myself, but it's just a matter of basic respect.

Ive never ever felt that the music I like is "the best", it just happens to be music that I particularly enjoy. I know everyone has different tastes, so it would be unreasonable for me to think or expect that everyone is going to share my opinions on the bands I like. And that is of course, very true. It is just one's own opinion. Too many people forget that when trying to ridicule other's musical tastes. I cant see any reason why it should be beyond someone to respect another's taste in music if it differs from their own.

Written by NocturnalPoetry on 14.09.2010 at 23:41
Absolutely. Critiquing/discussing/bashing bands is fine, as long as you have some sort of basis for what you are saying,... and ideally, are able to entertain other views without bursting into flames

Yep, that is the main problem that some have, and something that really gets on my nerves. To blow up and completely overreact purely because someone has a different view on an album/band, to me is very immature. And also shows a certain amount of insecurity in the person's stated opinion. Its just downright silly.

@ Hidden_Dictator: That's very cool of you that you are going to be more respectful. Like you said, obviously we have some severe differences in our views, and that's all good... it's fun to have a little debate and banter here and there. It's just the way we go about it.
I agree that some modern day power metal has quite a bit in common with some glam, especially Edguy... Tinnetus Sanctus and Rocket Ride were full on throw backs. I love it (of course, lol). I don't really think modern day pm is pop at all though, i wouldn't fight the rock label too much in some instances such as Edguy, but def not pop. But bands such as Blind Guardian, Falconer, Nocturnal Rites, etc, I definitely see as metal. But, we clearly have different measuring sticks, lol.

Written by NocturnalPoetry on 15.09.2010 at 00:48

@ Hidden_Dictator: That's very cool of you that you are going to be more respectful. Like you said, obviously we have some severe differences in our views, and that's all good... it's fun to have a little debate and banter here and there. It's just the way we go about it.

Yeah. I just think we took a bad first step. Perhaps I took your words as more aggressive than they were.

Written by NocturnalPoetry on 15.09.2010 at 00:48

I agree that some modern day power metal has quite a bit in common with some glam, especially Edguy... Tinnetus Sanctus and Rocket Ride were full on throw backs. I love it (of course, lol). I don't really think modern day pm is pop at all though, i wouldn't fight the rock label too much in some instances such as Edguy, but def not pop.

Read 'pop rock' and not strictly 'pop'. I mean, sometimes it doesn't even qualifies as hard rock, imo. More like pop rock.

Written by NocturnalPoetry on 15.09.2010 at 00:48

But bands such as Blind Guardian, Falconer, Nocturnal Rites, etc, I definitely see as metal. But, we clearly have different measuring sticks, lol.

Oh, I see them as metal too. Softer metal compared to the stuff I usually listen to, but definitely metal.

Nu-Metal and metal-core are probably my least favorites, but i would go as far as to say i despise them. There are some good acts around in those genres although you do often need to scratch past the surface to find them.

Written by Guest on 13.09.2010 at 14:53

Written by Guest on 13.09.2010 at 12:14

Written by Guest on 23.07.2010 at 18:16

For me Symphonic Power Metal then gothic then genre calls saumi metal or something, don't remember the name

It's Suomi Metal Have you ever heard of Sentenced?

Yeah, but i never listen to their albums

Please listen to them once again and then tell me your NEW idea about them They are one of my fav bands I recommend you "The Cold White Light" album

Written by Guest on 18.09.2010 at 08:21

Written by Guest on 13.09.2010 at 14:53

Written by Guest on 13.09.2010 at 12:14

Written by Guest on 23.07.2010 at 18:16

For me Symphonic Power Metal then gothic then genre calls saumi metal or something, don't remember the name

It's Suomi Metal Have you ever heard of Sentenced?

Yeah, but i never listen to their albums

Please listen to them once again and then tell me your NEW idea about them They are one of my fav bands I recommend you "The Cold White Light" album

Sorry man, i just can't, but i remember old song i use to like 6 years ago "Nosse" or something like that

Written by Zombie on 27.08.2010 at 15:41

If you are to make a poll, why dont you feature all kinds of metal? .. maybe someone hates death metal the most, or thrash, or black.. why didnt u include all metal genres ? its basically pre-assuming that these are the "bad" types of metal and others are good ... to tell you the truth.. i DO dislike most genres on this list, however.. i prefer Nu-Metal to Doom metal ... and prefer Metalcore to Grindcore .. prefer Hair to Black ..

Sorry mate, but I don't agree with you. This site is more prone to extreme types of metal (such as Death and Black), so putting them in poll wouldn't be a good idea, since nobody would vote for them. And of course I'm not assuming anything, just take a look at my favorite band list.

I think bands like Suicide Silence sucks! The whole "metalcore" thing is just dumb, to me. Sorry if I offend anyone haha.

Written by Derwood on 12.05.2010 at 23:48

Written by Kennoth on 12.05.2010 at 23:09

Personally, I never quite understood why some metal fans (by some I mean a lot) hate power metal. Sure, Manowar are lame example, but there are so many high quality bands of the genre, especially when fused with another style (Like Kiuas - Power/Folk/Death, Nevermore - Power/Trash), and Hammerfall are one of the first metal bands I got into, so I'll always respect them.

Korn? They're my favorite band

Nevertheless, I appreciate your input.

I dislike power metal in general because most of it is cheesy, flowery, effete, poppy and generally lame to my ears. I find it mostly embodies the opposite of the qualities I like in metal, which are the power, rage, and darkness found in death, thrash and (though to a lesser extent) heavy metal. In short, most power metal lacks balls.

Before all the lovers of power metal jump all over me, that doesn't mean I believe my opinion is right and yours is wrong. It just means that I hear the music differently than you do. It also doesn't mean I automatically dismiss a band because they are power metal. I really like Hibria, for example.

Exactly. Once I was really angry in the car, and I had my iPhone in my pocket. I took it out but it only had cheesy power metal on it, I couldn't at all listen to it. Impossible. It's mediocre, cheesy and poppy, like you said, so IMO it's the worst metal genre and the one I hate the most.

Written by Guest on 08.08.2011 at 15:33

Written by Derwood on 12.05.2010 at 23:48

Written by Kennoth on 12.05.2010 at 23:09

Personally, I never quite understood why some metal fans (by some I mean a lot) hate power metal. Sure, Manowar are lame example, but there are so many high quality bands of the genre, especially when fused with another style (Like Kiuas - Power/Folk/Death, Nevermore - Power/Trash), and Hammerfall are one of the first metal bands I got into, so I'll always respect them.

Korn? They're my favorite band

Nevertheless, I appreciate your input.

I dislike power metal in general because most of it is cheesy, flowery, effete, poppy and generally lame to my ears. I find it mostly embodies the opposite of the qualities I like in metal, which are the power, rage, and darkness found in death, thrash and (though to a lesser extent) heavy metal. In short, most power metal lacks balls.

Before all the lovers of power metal jump all over me, that doesn't mean I believe my opinion is right and yours is wrong. It just means that I hear the music differently than you do. It also doesn't mean I automatically dismiss a band because they are power metal. I really like Hibria, for example.

Exactly. Once I was really angry in the car, and I had my iPhone in my pocket. I took it out but it only had cheesy power metal on it, I couldn't at all listen to it. Impossible. It's mediocre, cheesy and poppy, like you said, so IMO it's the worst metal genre and the one I hate the most.

Cheesy, Poppy & Mediocre, oh please..!! any serious reasons?
Unfortunately there are some metalheads aren't epicure or taster, you can say I don't like this genre cuz anyone has its own musical taste...

Written by Metal_4Ever on 08.08.2011 at 18:48

Written by Guest on 08.08.2011 at 15:33

Written by Derwood on 12.05.2010 at 23:48

Written by Kennoth on 12.05.2010 at 23:09

Personally, I never quite understood why some metal fans (by some I mean a lot) hate power metal. Sure, Manowar are lame example, but there are so many high quality bands of the genre, especially when fused with another style (Like Kiuas - Power/Folk/Death, Nevermore - Power/Trash), and Hammerfall are one of the first metal bands I got into, so I'll always respect them.

Korn? They're my favorite band

Nevertheless, I appreciate your input.

I dislike power metal in general because most of it is cheesy, flowery, effete, poppy and generally lame to my ears. I find it mostly embodies the opposite of the qualities I like in metal, which are the power, rage, and darkness found in death, thrash and (though to a lesser extent) heavy metal. In short, most power metal lacks balls.

Before all the lovers of power metal jump all over me, that doesn't mean I believe my opinion is right and yours is wrong. It just means that I hear the music differently than you do. It also doesn't mean I automatically dismiss a band because they are power metal. I really like Hibria, for example.

Exactly. Once I was really angry in the car, and I had my iPhone in my pocket. I took it out but it only had cheesy power metal on it, I couldn't at all listen to it. Impossible. It's mediocre, cheesy and poppy, like you said, so IMO it's the worst metal genre and the one I hate the most.

Cheesy, Poppy & Mediocre, oh please..!! any serious reasons?
Unfortunately there are some metalheads aren't epicure or taster, you can say I don't like this genre cuz anyone has its own musical taste...

It's my opinion, my opinion that Power Metal is CHEESY, POPPY and MEDIOCRE!

Written by Guest on 08.08.2011 at 18:54

Written by Metal_4Ever on 08.08.2011 at 18:48

Written by Guest on 08.08.2011 at 15:33

Written by Derwood on 12.05.2010 at 23:48

Written by Kennoth on 12.05.2010 at 23:09

Personally, I never quite understood why some metal fans (by some I mean a lot) hate power metal. Sure, Manowar are lame example, but there are so many high quality bands of the genre, especially when fused with another style (Like Kiuas - Power/Folk/Death, Nevermore - Power/Trash), and Hammerfall are one of the first metal bands I got into, so I'll always respect them.

Korn? They're my favorite band

Nevertheless, I appreciate your input.

I dislike power metal in general because most of it is cheesy, flowery, effete, poppy and generally lame to my ears. I find it mostly embodies the opposite of the qualities I like in metal, which are the power, rage, and darkness found in death, thrash and (though to a lesser extent) heavy metal. In short, most power metal lacks balls.

Before all the lovers of power metal jump all over me, that doesn't mean I believe my opinion is right and yours is wrong. It just means that I hear the music differently than you do. It also doesn't mean I automatically dismiss a band because they are power metal. I really like Hibria, for example.

Exactly. Once I was really angry in the car, and I had my iPhone in my pocket. I took it out but it only had cheesy power metal on it, I couldn't at all listen to it. Impossible. It's mediocre, cheesy and poppy, like you said, so IMO it's the worst metal genre and the one I hate the most.

Cheesy, Poppy & Mediocre, oh please..!! any serious reasons?
Unfortunately there are some metalheads aren't epicure or taster, you can say I don't like this genre cuz anyone has its own musical taste...

It's my opinion, my opinion that Power Metal is CHEESY, POPPY and MEDIOCRE!

YEAH!!!

Why is alternative metal in the choices What people don't like Sludge, Doom or Stoner

Written by Guib on 08.08.2011 at 20:06

Why is alternative metal in the choices What people don't like Sludge, Doom or Stoner

doom alternative? Sludge I can see people viewing that as alternative and stoner also a bit but not doom as such.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.08.2011 at 20:18

Written by Guib on 08.08.2011 at 20:06

Why is alternative metal in the choices What people don't like Sludge, Doom or Stoner

doom alternative? Sludge I can see people viewing that as alternative and stoner also a bit but not doom as such.

Why's that ? I think alot of sludge and stoner pick up some doom sound and it also applies to the contrary.

Written by Guib on 08.08.2011 at 20:22


Why's that ? I think alot of sludge and stoner pick up some doom sound and it also applies to the contrary.

I agree with your opinion.

Written by Guib on 08.08.2011 at 20:22

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.08.2011 at 20:18

Written by Guib on 08.08.2011 at 20:06

Why is alternative metal in the choices What people don't like Sludge, Doom or Stoner

doom alternative? Sludge I can see people viewing that as alternative and stoner also a bit but not doom as such.

Why's that ? I think alot of sludge and stoner pick up some doom sound and it also applies to the contrary.

sludge mixes a lot of hardcore with doom.

But for normal doom I meant death/doom, funeral/doom, traditional doom, epic doom, black/doom and there is nothing alternative aabout that sort of doom at all.
Or do you consider Black Sabbath's first couple of albums also as alternative?

Doom is a direct derivative of black sabbath... it has branched as time as gone, but still it's clearly a direct descendant.

on the other hand, sludge is more derivative of hard core punk (which seems to be a dirty word around these parts) - bands like The Melvins and Neurosis were initially more influenced by Black Flag (and Amebix and Flipper, in Neurosis' case) than Black Sabbath. that's per Terrorizer interviews with Scott Kelly and The Melvins in their 'Sludge Special Part 1' (#187). Sabbath was an influence, and over time Sludge and Doom might have become more intermeshed, but it's still a mongrel genre with a direct lineage that falls outside the metal tree.

I don't see any use for hating a certain style of music anymore. You don't like it, don't listen to it. I voted for deathcore, because I find that it has for more crappy bands relative to good bands than other metal genres do, but bands like The Contortionist, Rings of Saturn, All Shall Perish, and Born of Osiris are enjoyable.

Written by Guest on 08.08.2011 at 21:55

I don't see any use for hating a certain style of music anymore. You don't like it, don't listen to it. I voted for deathcore, because I find that it has for more crappy bands relative to good bands than other metal genres do, but bands like The Contortionist, Rings of Saturn, All Shall Perish, and Born of Osiris are enjoyable.

I wanted to say it